The disenchantment of tourn. bowling

[Rig]

I have seen a crime committed in the sport of tenpin bowling, and nobody has said a word. I don't know if it hasn't yet been noticed or not, but I have heard from too many of the good young adults that I come in contact with that they are now considering giving up this sport. NO Direction, nothing to aspire to, nobody is listening. A couple of weeks ago nearly the whole youth season was just cancelled. Poof, gone.

Yeah I know that they might try again next year, but what about now? What about the youth that have been trying to aspire to do something this year? What about the kids that I have been training, or other coaches have been training to go out and to live their goals, or give it one hell of an attempt?

There are hardly any tournaments in NSW this whole year. There isn't any more tournaments for the youth at all. Penrith was it. There is a lot of youth in NSW, what are they to do?

At the moment, there is now a six month break for the youth events. I have heard from a lot of bowlers wondering why they bowl at an elite level at all. I don't know what the TBAL is doing about it, because they have said nothing about it, besides that they are cancelled. The junior bowlers are focused on the Nationals at the moment, so they have a target. What happens to them after that? Is tournament bowling in NSW dead or dieing? Are they not viable? Doesn't their money spend well during leagues, in the pro shops and at the cafes of their respective bowling centres? Looking at the prices charged in the pro shops, the elite bowler is helping make them viable!

We do this sport because we are all sick in the head! We love the sound of pins smashing, and the chance that on the day, we can come out on top. If we were talented at the yo-yo, we would be gathering every year for the Whammo Nationals, or some yo-you tournament, instead of a bowling tournament with Ebonite, Track or Storm Gear, which by the way costs nearly $500 a throw in the pro shops.

I think the elite bowlers are getting the raw end of the deal. AMF, Wonderbowl, hell any bowl needs to realise that the week in and week out league and elite bowlers brings in much more consistent cash flow into their business than a seasonal social crowd. How hard is that to see?

For now the tournament bowler is paying a harsh price, and for the elite bowler, I ask you, what the hell are you doing it for, paying for new gear, training, etc, if there is no place to have a bowl to prove yourself? These kids deserve better. Much better.

Dennis Rigney

 

[Ash]

I am in total agreement, and it's not just the youth bowlers who are suffering, it's hurting all over.

Something needs to be done, and it needs to be done NOW.

Very well said Dennis, hopefully we can now see a broader range of events, if we scream loud enough, hopefully it'll happen.

Like I've said before, we need an independant group to run tournaments in this country, the problem breaks down to money, plain and simple.

Who's got it, and who can create a viable tournament series in this state, even country wide.

The answer is out there, it's just that no one seems to be looking.

Thinking caps on people.

 

[Andrew S.]

You are dead right the problem breaks down to money. And while its not a complete argument look at the registration fees for cricket soccer or any other sport and then look at ours.
Cricket for juniors this season $150 - Soccer for juniors $210.
Both of them short seasons. Tenpin Bowling - around $10 a year.
Even without doing all the maths its easy to see how much the sport is missing out on compared to the other sports.

 

[tonx]

Do the maths,

Then add up to $20-$30 a week for bowling, add equipment (about $1000 a year for the medium range spenders) add up $10-$30 per week for practise/coaching.

How much does cricket charge per week? maybe 5 bucks if your at a tight club, soccer sucks anyways, but AFL doesn't cost anywhere near the amount that bowling costs, and if your good at it you get paid every game, not only if you cut.

Which sport costs more? Well technically golf, but next in line is bowling, and at least with golf you get some exercise.

Bowling in Australia is going down hill, picking up speed doing so, and will steamroll everything in its path.

Tournaments are stopping, people are bitching about the lanes/balls/approaches/scoring/ (also about other people bitching), and prices are going up every year, more people are leaving the game than starting up, AMF staff are only on award wages, so there are more and more of them that just don't care anymore (mainly some techs that don't/never have bowled), and there is NO support for the juniors/youth comming through the ranks financially, so most just give up...

And we wonder why bowling isn't on television/ comm-games anymore...

Andrew Tonkin

p.s. I hope everyone likes bowling with music and flashing lights, because that disco inferno shit is the way of the future, as this seems more 'economically viable'

 

[The Spanner]

Soccer

Weekly Fee - $5
Shin Pads - $40
Soccer Boots - $120
Rego Fees - $250
Physio at least 3 times a year for someone as plastic and old as me .. $150

The feeling that you've just chipped the keeper from 35 yards out with your left foot in the first minute of the game .... priceless.

 

[tonx]

bowling

$20 rego fee
$750 a year for league
$500 a year for practise
$1000 a year for balls
$200 a year for shoes
$1000 a year for tourney entry fees,

Getting beaten; leaving a solid 10 pin for a 299 game bowling against paul trotter who throws a 300 with 4revs and a late 5 pin every shot... Priceless...

there are some things that money can't buy, for EVERYONE else there is Aussie rules on foxtel. :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[Rig]

Look I understand that bowling centres need to make money, they are a business. But the service level to us the customers has dropped down to nothing. Every centre loves the lineage that the elite bowlers make to their bottom lines, loves the pro shop revenue, loves the cafe revenue. You can't tell me that if you weigh all of that up and add the tournaments, that you come up with a loss. Tournaments are a way of servicing their clients, to promote the centres, and to attract quality. Look at the Brunswick tournaments held in Canberra. Both the youth and adult tourneys attract huge numbers. Why? Well run, challenging, open, and in a great atmosphere. Does the centre lose money by running it? Would it matter if they lost a little bit on lineage and make it up in the cafe? Does it promote the centre and make you want to come back?
Tournaments are the yardsticks that aspiring bowlers use to measure themselves. The TBAL use them to rank us as well. For an aspiring youth player, is it fair to measure on 7 tournaments for the year? If you were just below the best, would you travel to QLD, Vic, and ACT to measure yourself? NO NO NO is the answer.
This sport is hurting. I believe that the TBAL has built an excellent base of coaches, and has succeeded very well in that area. You have a group of people passionate to see the personal development of junior/youth people. It is kind of hard to give the athletes a direction if there isn't one.

 

[da_cowman]

True. So very true.

Later Da Cowman!

 

[The1bigun4eva]

At First glance I was tempted to say 'Boo Hoo', but knowing exactly what this is like (SA has next to nothing in this state) I can see you heading downward very quickly.
Soon, and I mean withing 6 months, bowling in NSW will resemble SA. You'll have your one major a year, maybe a minor, but otherwise you'll have to go interstate like we have to.
This may mean adapting to other lanes/approaches and Oiling patterns. It will make the best rise to the top and any close or developing people will fall away.
I guess in the end the Elite group will be smaller. So then only the small number of elite and rich people will be able to contest the national tour. Thats why there are so few South Aussies in the national tour nowdays.

So please find some way to stop NSW Bowling ending up like SA.

 

[Leggi_23]

Lift Your Game MLE

Yes I agree, the sport of tenpin bowling is going to end up as a nothing because nobody is willing to do the hard yards to promote this great sport.

There is so much about aussies bowling overseas, and the way the sport is going, we will have nobody to follow in there footsteps and keep Australias name in the headlines overseas.

Please don't let this happen, put the events on and find the money needed, you guys seam too make enough out of the everyday bowler

 

[KnuckleHead]

Same as Field Hockey.
Rego 400 non students
for Students 230
Shin Pads 50
Shoes 140
Hockey Sticks 150-400
What when u make a state team aswell your paying 900-1200 if u make the team for accomdation and food then entry's for masters and that 2

Laterz Chrs

 

[harley]

rig that is just about the best post ive ever read :cry: :wink:


later :twisted:

 

[Aussie]

Been there done that.

Rig, Its all been done before.
Yes we did travel interstate all the time, even if we were not so good.
Only problem with a lot of the posts on here
is that most of you were not around
in the 70.s and 80, and the early part of the 90.s
Bowling goes in cycles and nothing has changed
only the balls and all the Blocked Lane Conditions.
now just about any mug can have a 200+ Ave.

 

[Rig]

Why does this cycle have to come around? I don't know the percentage of the Australian centres that are now owned by MLE, but it can't be half. There are a lot of independant centres out there. Being in business, everybody wants more business. A tournament is good business. How many centres have you seen pumping at 10am on a Sunday? Aussie, I am sure that you have been stung in the past, that is why you should feel passionate that it not be repeated.

 

[ilive2bowl]

I have read with great interest the various posts associated with the decision to restructure the NSW Grand Prix series. I am furthermore heartened by the passion expressed in relation to Tournament competition for both adult, youth and Juniors - this is exactly what our Sport needs and much much more of it to sustain the credibility of bowling as an 'A' grade sport. Seven years ago, I started the BowlAustralia Brunswick Cup which today ranks amongst the most prestigeous Tournament events in Australia - well supported, good prizemonies and challenging format. It took another 5 years to gain sufficient sponsorship and support to introduce the Brunswick Youth / Junior Event. Much planning, and coercing sponsors occured behind the scenes to retain and grow the importance of both these events.
Tournaments can only be successful if they attract entries sufficient enough to provide the sponsors, the business and the participants with value.....unless all 3 aspects are in place they fail and this is the reason for the reconstruction of the Tournament scene in NSW. There is no future for any of us connected with our beloved sport to support a failed system. The proof is there for all to see......
AMF and BowlAustralia are totally committed to re-engineering and re-invigorating the Tournament scene in NSW and indeed throughout Australia and it is only a matter of time - coupled with the huge amount of energy from some unbelievably committed people that will make this happen....but let me assure everyone that HAPPEN IT WILL! ... bigger and stronger than ever before. We are meeting with potential sponsors and looking at structures and timetables for a full re-launch by the start of the next financial year. League bowling has, is and will always be the very lifeblood of our Sport. Every effort will be injected to ensure that it is treated with the respect it deserves.....but we should all be honost with ourselves in understanding that 99% of all League bowlers come from social play and to keep League alive and growing we need to ENCOURAGE new participants to develop the same passion that WE all share...For the SURVIVAL of competitive bowiling we should not undermine or redicule the fun experience enjoyed by the social bowler - rather we should be supporting and encouraging it!

Roy Menachemson
CEO - AMF Bowling Centres/
BowlAustralia Group

 

[Rig]

I appreciate what you are saying, and what you say does sound good. But you must agree that bowling has made some significant steps forward in the last 5 years. For starters, there are actually youth bowlers bowling in events. People becoming excited, passionate, and dedicated. Bowlers always have their gripes, its the nature of the beast. But AMF was there in a dominant way to push the tournament scene forward, and to be there for the elite player. They worked with TBAL on a common cause it seems, to foster the growth of the sport at an elite level. Now that old relationship is gone, and a new one takes its place. Nobody really knows what to expect.
Nobody is ridiculing the social player. However, a social player might visit one of your centres once a month, and elite players are in your centres at least twice a week. Some more than that. (Some of us are sicker than others) It just seems that again the better players are coming second to the social player. There is a difference between chucking a ball down the lane with cosmic lights, and bowling. I know that we can be more high maintenance than social players, but we are customers none the less.

I respect your decision as a businessman, but I still can't fathom it. I don't understand why you would cancel a series that has already started. An AFL/NRL season doesn't go quite as good as you would expect it, so we will cancel it after round 4 and expect the fans to come back pumped up as before next financial year? How does that better the sport?

What is the timeframe for these new tournaments? Are they going to have ranking points like before? Are they going to be TBAL accredited? You have a passionate crowd now waiting to do what they love doing, and that is actually bowl. What you say still doesn't answer the question of, what do these youth, adult, junior bowl in now?

 

[SNEEZY]

auh!!! He we go again!!! :roll: :roll:

In reading the posts above I do believe that this topic has been brought up many times before.

The problem with this sport is that it is promoted in the wrong way. Sure it is a family sport and yes families do enjoy throwing a ball down the lane, in the gutter, etc. laugh, drink and have a great time. However the problem with that is that when those people join up in a league and a bowler starts enforcing some sort of rule for the TBA rules then the attitude is that they aren't here to play for sheep stations and couldn't care less. Then the problem here is that those bowlers get pissed off and leave the league.

If this sport is to progress and be recognised, then the sport should be taken a little more seriously. TBA should carry out spot checks on centres to make sure they enforce the TBA rules in the centre. I know there are a lot of leagues where I bowl that A don't know what a foul is, B count balls that Jump out of Gutters and hit pins, etc. If people looked at the game more seriously then they may have more of a chance and make it when trying to progress through the sport and participate in bigger tournaments - not to mention more bowlers participating.

In relation to tournaments, sponsors are always sort from the bowling industry. Rightly so as it is those companies that will benefit. However, has anyone ever thought of approaching companies such as a winery(s) or finanacial institutions. I am sure if they got involved within the sport the money may come in thick and fast as they have lots of it. The other area that bowling misses out on is admission to watch a tournament. In previous post on this thread people are say how every player gets paid for a game of football or soccoer. However, to watch a game how much do you pay to get into the stadium (ground). The last time I walked into a bowling centre to watch a tourament. I walked in, watched, talked a bit as you do, then I left. The only money I may have spent would be at the cafe if I bought something. Now lets take an example of what I just said. SA just had the SA Cup. How much money would there be projected into the sport if you were to advertise this tournament as the ADELAIDE BANK - SA CUP (assuming ADELAIDE BANK is a sponsor) and charge spectators to a couple of dollars to watch.

Although I can't see centres charging those walking in the centre to watch a tournament however how many sports out there that are held in a building or stadium of some sort don't charge an entry fee. :?:

Roy, you are talking about revamping the NSW tournament scene. Is there a posiblilty that you can put SA next on your hit list. We have all of about 2 tournaments - SA Cup and Barossa Cup. Unless bowlers travel interstate then there is a long time between drinks in this state for a descent non handicapped tournament. :!: :!:

Just my thoughts

 

[Easy Tiger]

AMF staff are only on award wages, so there are more and more of them that just don't care anymore (mainly some techs that don't/never have bowled)..

I am one of those casual techs who does bowl. Money is nice, especially when it's a casual job and you are trying to get enough money together to actually bowl...

But just because it's standard award wages and so forth doesn't mean that we don't care about our bowlers/customers. I can honestly say that I care about the experience of every single bowler that comes through our doors.

It's not the money that acts as a demotivator. It's the fact that basically none of your ideas or suggestions are taken on board. Queensland is renowned as a very dry condition state lane-wise. Try to do/suggest doing something about it. Now the pattern is shorter than before with less oil on the outside boards. The condition before was lucky to last 3 to 4 games with 2 or 3 per pair. On the weekend after practice on fresh conditions, it lasted about 12 frames. However the line straight up 10 - 12 was fine it seemed from what I saw. I tried that, had no hope there.

Now don't get me wrong here - I know that the centres have to try and keep everybody happy. This just isn't possible, so they try and keep most people happy. But I still don't believe it's for the betterment of the sport. Maybe the centre would make some money out of a chiropractor with how hard you have to bowl it here most of the time.

Now in regards to the actual point of this topic. I do really hope, like everyone does, that what Roy says is accurate. Pulling the plug on the tournament circuit was the right thing to do in terms of the books and economic viability for this financial year. One step forward two steps back? We'll have to wait and see. I can't see it being good for youth bowling in the short term. And no doubt it has made quite a few people angry. I just hope that the sport of bowling doesn't lose too much out of it. It took a fair while to get youth looking decent.

And it's been said - but tournaments help to fill dead (quiet) spots during the weekend. Will cancelling the circuit achieve that, will bowlers just walk into the centres on those specific dates and rack up the game fees? You've still got to be open at those times, and you still have to pay wages, electricity, etc etc etc. Of course I haven't seen the company profit/loss statement so I don't know - but even without significant sponsorship for the circuit, will you really be much better off not holding the tournaments? It's an open ended question, no answer required.

These are my opinions/thoughts and mine only.

 

[SCOOTER_26]

[/quote] Timmmeeee wrote:
I am one of those casual techs who does bowl. Money is nice, especially when it's a casual job and you are trying to get enough money together to actually bowl...

But just because it's standard award wages and so forth doesn't mean that we don't care about our bowlers/customers. I can honestly say that I care about the experience of every single bowler that comes through our doors.[/quote]

Yeah timmeee u do care about the customers as ive seen when ive been bowling at Kedron when ur working good on u mate

 

[willey]

Dennis has a point about the amount of youth bowlers still bowling, I have seen over the last 36 years, where once the juniors finish in junior league and have to start paying for thier own games they disappear off the bowling scene for many years most are never seen again.

This is mainly because they don't see themselves just bowling senior league and there are more exciting things to do with thier time and money. Maybe it has something to do with the Big Fish in a Small Pond scenario, they feel important, but when they bowl against the cream of bowlers in the Major Tournaments they feel invisible.

I think the decision to cancel the series is terrible, it cannot be based on cost alone, you cannot lose money on a tournament, it does'nt matter how badly run. The series should have been run and thier's plenty of time to start up a new and exciting series for next year, if it is possible.

JMHO.

willey.