The disenchantment of tourn. bowling

[VickyF]

The disenchantment of tourn.bowling

Dennis I cannot agree more with the topic you have raised. To Macquarie Leisure I ask how canyou justify your decision to pull the rug from under the feet of NSW youth bowling. The NSW Youth Circuit was becoming popular, not only with NSW bowlers but with Youth Bowlers from all over the country. It has not been given a chance. All tournaments take time to build up a reputation and to discontinue this series now shows callousness and shortsightedness and certainly no thought to the promotion of Youth Bowling in NSW. Youth Bowling in this country was starting to gain a real momentum and providing a training ground for some wonderful youth bowlers (one only has to follow the exciting career of Jason Belmonte at the moment). To tell these bowlers that it will be bigger and better next year is just not good enough. They want to bowl now. If your bottom line is profitability why did you not consider explaining this in the first place and perhaps giving the bowlers a chance to still participate with perhaps a lower prize fund. It is not all about money for our youth. They want ranking points as well but you chose to deny them that. Well done. I hope with all my heart that we don't lose too many of these dedicated young bowlers because of your short-sighted business decisions.

 

[Resurrection]

Gee guys, I have only just caught this post but I have being saying this exact same thing for the last 5 years. Tournament bowlers who have to travel interstate must basically finish top 4 to just break even. The thing is in all states that you have league then the next step is the super 6 series or the national, now that is a massive step and a lot of money to throw away even if you are the next Trotter, George or Belmo. The people that run these tournaments need to think outside the square when it comes to sponsorship, the bowling industry is too small to rely on in house sponsorship to keep the tournaments worth bowling.

The melbourne cup organises have thought outside the square in getting the australian diamond company on board , but they are an independant centre. AMF run the majority of the tournaments in australia and they are too stubborn to even think outside the company itself let alone the rest of the industry. Bowling is going down hill and will continue to go down hill until bowling and bowling development becomes more affordable to bowlers.

I love bowling and i would spend a hell of a lot more time bowling if I could afford it. In the 8 years I have been bowling I have gone from bowling 4 leagues a week and tournaments to 1 league a week. Last but not least some of the bowlers i have bowled with and against just dont give a stuff anymore due to the politics and general baggage that comes with it.

 

[xpense]

Fully agree with the idea that tournament bowling in Australia does need a revamp. Sponsors need to be sought, and entry fees need to be reduced.
So far l have read how NSW has lost its youth & adult grand prix series, well at least you had one. That is more than most other states have.

I know we here in Victoria have a number of tournaments, but they are all majors, except about 2 from mermory. And to be honest $280+ per event is big money, and when you are paying for 2 people even bigger money.

I understand the centres want to make a profit, fine, but they need to look at this the right way.

example AO is on this weekend, how many games would sunshine of had on a standard Saturday between 9am & 5pm. Today they had 792 games. I am sorry but l can not belive they would have that many games in that 8 hour block on a normal Saturday. They would still have made thier money in the cafe, as the bowlers in the tournaments still buy food, drinks & alcohol (to drown thier sorrows) at each and every event. I don not see why they could not work out a rate that is just above cost for the linage of the events. This would assist with prize money, entry fees.

The centre are still able to have thier moonlight disco bowling after the event, when they are most busy.

Something needs to be done in each state to assist all levels of bowlers, not just the top of the tree guys. At most events bowlers fail to cover costs, and that is the main problem in getting entries for any tournament. If you need to finish in the top 4 to cover costs, and you know the like of Trotts, Belmo, George, Brando, Lean/ Stewart & Mcarthur are all going to show up, the you can almost kiss a profit good bye.

All the states need to get together, and stop the AMF / Independant stuff, and work together to develop a circuit to promote the sport, and ensures that all bowlers have a good time, and can make a profit. How is now the question? This is something that the bowlers in each state are going to have to drive, organise. Each state needs its own circuit, and then a national circuit is also required, which follows on from the state level. State level to have its own ranking system, and then national level to be national ranked, none of this state level circuit stuff being nationally ranked, as all that does is make costs more expensive as bowlers start to chase those elusive points.

We need to have 8 nationally ranked events each year, and 10 state ranked events each year, and no event should count towards the others ranking points. The state events could all then be run on the same dates, to allow the calendar to stay clear.

Ideas are needed, and then concept formed, and then sponsors found to support these events.

 

[JAY K]

HI
I have a question for I live 2 bowl I think that it is great you feel the sport will go forward but I have a dilemma and their name is Macquarie the new owner of AMF they are in the business to make money and have cancelled a lot of tournament that have not made them money so how do you get passed that one. Independed centre do there bit but the without the bigger one we are dead in the water. For me there is no better game.
](*,) :?

 

[ilive2bowl]

There is no doubt that AMF need to take a leadership role in regard to Tournament bowling and we will. Our goal is to develop a new Schedule both by State, National as well as International events. Macquarie Leisure recognise that competitive bowling is a most important part of the business but they recognise that there is simply no value to keep promoting Tournaments that fail to meet either their or the expectations of the majority of the participating bowlers. We recognise that Sponsorship is the key to affordability and it is this aspect that we are actively working on. Unfortunately to re-enigineer a healthy and vibrant Tournament calendar will take some time and much effort. Our commitment is to inject both so that once up and running the Australian Tournament scene will be much stronger and provide all competitive bowlers with significant opportunity to enjoy the spirit of great and rewarding competition. In the next couple of months, I propose to call a summit of all interested parties so that our voice is one of many in creating a much healthier Australian Tournament scene.

Roy Menachemson
CEO AMF Bowling Centres/
BowlAustralia Group.

 

[Brunswick Tech]

Seems everybody thinks that lineage is the single most important thing to a bowling centre when staging tournaments, unfortunately its not, game rates are singly the most important figure to a bowling centre.

1000 games at $1 a game produces a $1000, 100 games at $10 a game produces the same figure.......why would a centre host tournaments at greatly reduced game rates in prime time social play ?

Tournaments are a major PITA to most centres, league bowling and tournament bowling are in their death throes in Aust.

Dennis, You need to find the reason behind "why is bowling not a popular sport or social activity in Aust' before you can implement a solution.

Shawn

 

[Brunswick Tech]

Fully agree with the idea that tournament bowling in Australia does need a revamp. Sponsors need to be sought, and entry fees need to be reduced.
So far l have read how NSW has lost its youth & adult grand prix series, well at least you had one. That is more than most other states have.

I know we here in Victoria have a number of tournaments, but they are all majors, except about 2 from mermory. And to be honest $280+ per event is big money, and when you are paying for 2 people even bigger money.

I understand the centres want to make a profit, fine, but they need to look at this the right way.

example AO is on this weekend, how many games would sunshine of had on a standard Saturday between 9am & 5pm. Today they had 792 games. I am sorry but l can not belive they would have that many games in that 8 hour block on a normal Saturday. They would still have made thier money in the cafe, as the bowlers in the tournaments still buy food, drinks & alcohol (to drown thier sorrows) at each and every event. I don not see why they could not work out a rate that is just above cost for the linage of the events. This would assist with prize money, entry fees.

The centre are still able to have thier moonlight disco bowling after the event, when they are most busy.

Something needs to be done in each state to assist all levels of bowlers, not just the top of the tree guys. At most events bowlers fail to cover costs, and that is the main problem in getting entries for any tournament. If you need to finish in the top 4 to cover costs, and you know the like of Trotts, Belmo, George, Brando, Lean/ Stewart & Mcarthur are all going to show up, the you can almost kiss a profit good bye.

All the states need to get together, and stop the AMF / Independant stuff, and work together to develop a circuit to promote the sport, and ensures that all bowlers have a good time, and can make a profit. How is now the question? This is something that the bowlers in each state are going to have to drive, organise. Each state needs its own circuit, and then a national circuit is also required, which follows on from the state level. State level to have its own ranking system, and then national level to be national ranked, none of this state level circuit stuff being nationally ranked, as all that does is make costs more expensive as bowlers start to chase those elusive points.

We need to have 8 nationally ranked events each year, and 10 state ranked events each year, and no event should count towards the others ranking points. The state events could all then be run on the same dates, to allow the calendar to stay clear.

Ideas are needed, and then concept formed, and then sponsors found to support these events.

Classic example of misinformed bowler ............bowling centres want to make a profit!!!!! NO, we NEED to make a profit for the doors to stay open.......it costs somewhere between $3 and 3.50 for the centre to produce 1 game! Why sell that game to someone from out of town who you will never see again for $0.50 a game profit.

The staff would be much better off doing a 1/4 of the work, less wear and tear on lanes and machinery and make a $5 profit per game from social bowlers who are repeat customers with little or no extra work.

Having said that, I do hope tournament bowling can be brought back to its former glory for both the bowler, the centre and the industry.

Shawn

 

[bowling_hobbit]

Its not just the elite group of bowlers who have some gripes.

Local golf clubs have club championships that have different levels of handicap, why can't local centres do this perhaps twice a year or something., for all bowlers of varying handicaps and ability.. Have an A,B and C divisions....So do many local sports, tennis, squash, golf !! Why is bowling different.
Bowling is for all levels of bowlers. I know there is a South Pacific, I bowled in it 3 years ago, good experience, and fun... Still, long , long drive, why hasn't the local centre in your suburb got something. Perhaps mine does, and I just don't know about it. I know theres the DUnn shiled, but I'm not there yet as a bowler to compete ( I am as ambitious as anyone, slowly getting there!! LOL), and I am not at all interested in 9 no tap centre tournies.

Re elite bowlers more tournies, more local state tournies, if prize money is less (possiblY), well that could be the price to pay, more competition benefits all of us, from the elite down to handicap bowlers like myself..

Local centres employees, do u want to simply pick up a pay check, OR would u like to promote and develop bowling with new CLUB tournies for all bowlers, develop bowler instruction, inspire self improvement, discuss and care about bowlers and how they fared for their practise that day,whether they are league or social, need to fill leagues up...
As a whole I have found you to be friendly, honest people, however for the sake of bowling now and thiry years down the track you may need to think different. You are getting many people in your doors, and after an hour they walk out!! For the most part, these social bowlers , and they don't come back for a few months, or at least school holidays with their kids and their 2 games for BLAH,BLAH voucher.
The social dynamics/economics have changed in Australia over the last 10-15 years, and commiting to a weekly activity can be too much for some. Lifestyle and financial and family constraints play an important part in league bowler numbers..
We have league bowlers who will most likely quit over the end of the season to the next, then there will be the bowlers who quit after a couple of seasons. We meaning all bowlers, will find that they as a whole do not get replaced. Our centre when I first began bowling has gone from over approx 55 bowlers to around 16 bowlers, u do the maths on that. Its right across the board!! Its a tough time for bowling employees, but I think bowling needs passionate people working there , which is not too say that there are not those around, it just seems they are a little thin on the ground. Sad, but true!!!

Bowling is just a big pyramid, it all begins with a wide base (the junior and adult league bowlers), eventually narrowing to the top, which is the elite bowlers... At present we don't have that shape.. i hope I'm not being too vague or ying and yang kinda of thing.

I love bowling, and I want it, and league/tournuie bowling to be around for my grandkids, and their grandkids..

This post is not an attack, simply says what it says, bowling is in trouble,whilst the post originally pertanes to elite level bowlers, I though a perspective from a handicap bowler might be fitting, or even appreciated, who knows. Localemployees are the public face of bowling, numbers are down, think BIG. Every action has a reaction from it, just imagine have solid numbers across all abilitiy levels. Now, think about the liklihood of getting increased tournie particpation, inner house graded competitions, increased instruction, a big focus on self improvement ( u know sticking with the game when u reach your temporary plateau),promotion of the sport of bowling as a mass appeal activity, even media focus ( printed or otherwise), to finally reasonable and decent entrance fees on bigger tournies, top dogs get a little less, yet, with increased numbers, there is more to share around.. Just an idea! FOR THE BENFIT OF MANY, NOT JUST THE FEW!!!!
Take care all...Thoughts, feedback, criticisms appreciated

I have lots of questions, I just don't have the answers, someone enlighten me please!

 

[willey]

I think it's time to wade in here again, Bowling Hobbit asks where are the Tournaments for the A,B,C,D handicap bowlers, well I'm not sure where he bowls but here in Newcastle we have had Centre Championships and Newcastle Championships, than there's the State Championships , with the biggest of them all the Nationals. These are for all classes of bowler, there's not much money to be won, but it's not about money.

For Juniors we've had President Shield rolloff's, plus various Championships, most of these run by a small Clique of people willing to give up thier time to run these with no thought of payment, just the love of the game.

Pintech say's that Tournaments are a hassle for the Staff, this is correct, it is a big worry, is everything going to run to plan, run on time, no breakdowns, no disputes. Unfortunately if we all thought why bother it's too much trouble, where would Bowling be today. We cannot survive on Birthday parties alone, NO SPORT OF BOWLING, NO BOWLING PERIOD, end of story.

willey.

I see where AMF are asking for a forum on Tournaments be formed, so why is this? they don't have a plan for next year, than why cancel this year, IT MAY BE THE BEST PLAN THEY CAN COME UP WITH, jmho.

 

[Rig]

Seems everybody thinks that lineage is the single most important thing to a bowling centre when staging tournaments, unfortunately its not, game rates are singly the most important figure to a bowling centre.

1000 games at $1 a game produces a $1000, 100 games at $10 a game produces the same figure.......why would a centre host tournaments at greatly reduced game rates in prime time social play ?

Tournaments are a major PITA to most centres, league bowling and tournament bowling are in their death throes in Aust.

Dennis, You need to find the reason behind "why is bowling not a popular sport or social activity in Aust' before you can implement a solution.

Shawn

Bowling is a huge social activity in Australia. It just so happens that Australia would have one of the highest open play costs of any nation. A family of four, 2 games, drinks, and hot chips, at least $80. Who can afford that every week? Social bowling has become a treat for families, instead of a regular family bonding experience.
Bowling is a lifestyle sport Shawn. It starts out a loner sport. You come in as a single, or with a partner, and you build friends, self importance, and becomes a lifestyle for the league player. A vast majority of your friends become bowlers, and when you are not bowling, you are on totalbowling finding out what is happening with bowling. People meet their soulmates through bowling. (Read me) It is the psychy of the league bowler. The reason for the gripes and whinging is because when a change at the local centre or tournament scene occurs, it is uncontrolled change to our life. And nobody likes those kind of changes.
Now popularity is a phalacy. It is hugely popular, but not attractive because it has come into the pricepoint of the movies for an afternoon out. Better staff training to recruit the bowlers into league bowlers when they are there is a start. Then providing services to those league bowlers so that they bowl more is a great start. Then you continue those services to tournaments as they get better. Bowling centres need to stop looking at their customers as walking wallets and more as people.
Roy made the decision he has made. I respect that because at least he is making decisions. Which is a start. I don't know where his thoughts are at, but at least he is willing to have a forum of tournament bowlers, which I will gladly attend. My initial thoughts are that I do not have any idea why you would cancel a tournament model without a clear replacement model ready to take its place.
Now on the other states that don't have their own tournaments like NSW Gran Prix. Talk to your state Association. I know that NSW worked hard with the centres during its inception. Now with Roy controlling a majority of the centres in Australia, perhaps a new model can be copied into every state.
These are my thoughts, and opinions. I don't have the insight that Roy would on this, but from a tournament bowler, and a coach of many many more, this is the view from the actual customer.

 

[Rig]

On the subject of the actual cost of a game Shawn, what is costs the centre to provide a game is kind of stretching it isn't it? The game costs is directly proportional to the number of games being played during a shift. The more games being played in a shift, decreases the actual cost of each game. A centre is making money if the machines are going up and down, full stop. I wouldn't want to manage a centre on a Sunday morning and have 80 games rung up on the shift. Yes you saved wear and tear, but what is the point of that?
Now I am sure that tournament bowlers can be a handful. Like I stated before they are more high maintenance for the centres, I give you that. But their bowling gear is more high maintenance, their time coaching and practicing is more high maintenance, their normal cuppa is more high maintenance. Doesn't it balance out somewhere??

 

[xpense]

Hey pintech,

Classic example of misinformed bowler ............bowling centres want to make a profit!!!!! NO, we NEED to make a profit for the doors to stay open.......it costs somewhere between $3 and 3.50 for the centre to produce 1 game! Why sell that game to someone from out of town who you will never see again for $0.50 a game profit.

The staff would be much better off doing a 1/4 of the work, less wear and tear on lanes and machinery and make a $5 profit per game from social bowlers who are repeat customers with little or no extra work.

Having said that, I do hope tournament bowling can be brought back to its former glory for both the bowler, the centre and the industry.

Just a case of another misinformed bowler am l. Well l have been around the industry for over 22 years mate. I know a bit about the costs involved, and have watched them skyrocket over the past 15 years to the point where social play is now on the way out due to the high price.

I struggle to understand the point you make about the price at all. Is it not better to turn over a number of games than very few. I see your point that 1000 games @ $1 = $1000, & 100 games @ $10 = $1000. If l was the manger of the centre l know l would much prefer to see a centre full of bowlers who will spend money in the cafe, bar & proshop of course as they do at tournaments.

You need to not only look at the price of the game mate, you need to look at the entire picture.

Linage
Cafe
Bar
Pro Shop
Video Games

You fill a centre with bowlers, supporters family & friends, and the general public that walk in off the street for the social game, who stay to watch for a while, and overall you are going to look a lot better on the bottom line. The centre still costs almost the same to run without or without the machines going up & down, to turn a machine on, does not actually cost that much. You forget the bowl has to pay the staff regardless of weather you do anything or not, as after all the staff a not paid by the games played, but the hour, meaning that all your main overheads are still intact. (rent/mortage, wages, taxes, electricity, water, gas, building maintance, cleaning, admin costs).

If you have only 100 games for the shift from social play, your overall bottom line will not look any better, but worse, than the 1000 games from a tournament. Big differance in attitude towards they way look after the overall centre. No trips past the foul line, no bowling into sweeps, no silly antics on the approaches, no food & drink spillages around.

I know it was more fun to work when a tournament was on than when it was nothing than social play. Yes your tournament and league bowlers to ask more, but as the bowlers week in & week out that bowl, every week, at your centre ar someone elses, they should be considered part of the back bone of the sport. After all if you really think social bowlers will bring in the dollars during the weekdays & weeknights, good luck to you and your centre.

Not having a go at anyone here but, lets get serious and make tournamnet a bowling force, that will generate spectators that will spend money, join leagues, eat, drink, and shop. This then makes getting sponsors easier as they see a number of people watching, and this is good for them. This then allows centres to look at the linage prices, possibly even the cafe prices, as that is an area that has a great mark up on the products available. After all most centres can afford to lose 1 weekend a year to a tournament, and it not hurt the bottom line. As afterall bowlers go into practise for tournaments prior, and the number of games generated in a tournament will almost always outway the number of games social play would bring in. And l am certain that if you checked the cafe figures they are always a lot higher as well. (Nationals is a prime example, the Cafe as was overheard was taking almost 50% more each day, does this not cover the any thing that may be lost by the reduction of a couple of dollars on the liange fee.)

 

[Resurrection]

well said xpense, if the bowling centres listened more to people like us the league and tournament bowler then this sport would be rolling along in leaps and bounds

 

[Brunswick Tech]

Rig, You make some valid points and I don't disagree with everything you say, however government statistics 6 yrs ago, concluded that less than 1% of the population bowl on a regular basis, be it eithier league or social play. I haven't seen any current statistics but I have been inside a bowling centre for the last 6 years and I would say that figure would now be closer to 0.5% even though Australia's population has grown considerably. Your veiw of government statistics maybe less trusting than my veiw.

League bowling in my opinion is suffering from social disengagement, that the consumers maybe losing their desire and ability affiliate with others, their inclination to join social organisations and participate in group activities and their willingness to trust one another has dramatically declined over the past decade and continues to decline rapidly every year.

Sponsors only put up their $$$$$$$$ to get their name in front of the consumer, unfortunately without adequate participation numbers in league bowling the industry has very little to offer as far as exsposure is concerned. Without intervention the sport of Tenpin bowling will soon be as popular and have the same number of followers as precision swimming.

Shawn

 

[Brunswick Tech]

On the subject of the actual cost of a game Shawn, what is costs the centre to provide a game is kind of stretching it isn't it? The game costs is directly proportional to the number of games being played during a shift. The more games being played in a shift, decreases the actual cost of each game. A centre is making money if the machines are going up and down, full stop. I wouldn't want to manage a centre on a Sunday morning and have 80 games rung up on the shift. Yes you saved wear and tear, but what is the point of that?
Now I am sure that tournament bowlers can be a handful. Like I stated before they are more high maintenance for the centres, I give you that. But their bowling gear is more high maintenance, their time coaching and practicing is more high maintenance, their normal cuppa is more high maintenance. Doesn't it balance out somewhere??

Rig, let me assure you that the machines simply going up and down does not mean the centre is making money, how many centres over the last 10 years had machines going up and down 1 day and closed down the next, I know of at least 5 in Queensland alone.

I would much rather manage a centre with with 80 games @$10 on a Sunday morning than 240@$ 3.50 and so would the staff! Maintenance expenditure is critical when dealing with any business relying on machinery to produce profit.

Game costs you state are on a sliding rule, more games means lower costs to the centre thus producing a profit and you are right in some respects, however the same sliding rule applies in reverse, what happens when only 20 games are bowled during the shift ? each game produced was sold at below costs.

When projecting annual business figures and operating budgets I use my expected operational fixed costs to a formulate what each game will cost to produce in the coming year, never precisely accurate due to the nature of the industry and outside influences beyond my control but still much better than having no idea what games will cost to produce.

Shawn

 

[willey]

I think the problem with bowling starts and finishes with the price of the social game.

This is what happens in most centres;

Can I have 1 game thank you, asks the customer, "DONG" that will be $10 bucks plus, but we don't want you to do that, we have a package that is much more attractive,BUT I'm not sure if I like to bowl, what about the 3 year old I have with me, "DONG" child rates are $9 bucks, BUT I Don't know if she can even handle a game.

Interview with customer after bowling, how did you find it,"WELL I'm really glad to escape, it will be a long time before I can afford those prices again".

You think this is fiction I see it all the time, I've also seen a lot of people walk out without bowling, because of the prices.

willey.

 

[Brunswick Tech]

Hey pintech,

Just a case of another misinformed bowler am l. Well l have been around the industry for over 22 years mate. I know a bit about the costs involved, and have watched them skyrocket over the past 15 years to the point where social play is now on the way out due to the high price.

I struggle to understand the point you make about the price at all. Is it not better to turn over a number of games than very few. I see your point that 1000 games @ $1 = $1000, & 100 games @ $10 = $1000. If l was the manger of the centre l know l would much prefer to see a centre full of bowlers who will spend money in the cafe, bar & proshop of course as they do at tournaments.

You need to not only look at the price of the game mate, you need to look at the entire picture.

Linage
Cafe
Bar
Pro Shop
Video Games

You fill a centre with bowlers, supporters family & friends, and the general public that walk in off the street for the social game, who stay to watch for a while, and overall you are going to look a lot better on the bottom line. The centre still costs almost the same to run without or without the machines going up & down, to turn a machine on, does not actually cost that much. You forget the bowl has to pay the staff regardless of weather you do anything or not, as after all the staff a not paid by the games played, but the hour, meaning that all your main overheads are still intact. (rent/mortage, wages, taxes, electricity, water, gas, building maintance, cleaning, admin costs).

If you have only 100 games for the shift from social play, your overall bottom line will not look any better, but worse, than the 1000 games from a tournament. Big differance in attitude towards they way look after the overall centre. No trips past the foul line, no bowling into sweeps, no silly antics on the approaches, no food & drink spillages around.

I know it was more fun to work when a tournament was on than when it was nothing than social play. Yes your tournament and league bowlers to ask more, but as the bowlers week in & week out that bowl, every week, at your centre ar someone elses, they should be considered part of the back bone of the sport. After all if you really think social bowlers will bring in the dollars during the weekdays & weeknights, good luck to you and your centre.

Not having a go at anyone here but, lets get serious and make tournamnet a bowling force, that will generate spectators that will spend money, join leagues, eat, drink, and shop. This then makes getting sponsors easier as they see a number of people watching, and this is good for them. This then allows centres to look at the linage prices, possibly even the cafe prices, as that is an area that has a great mark up on the products available. After all most centres can afford to lose 1 weekend a year to a tournament, and it not hurt the bottom line. As afterall bowlers go into practise for tournaments prior, and the number of games generated in a tournament will almost always outway the number of games social play would bring in. And l am certain that if you checked the cafe figures they are always a lot higher as well. (Nationals is a prime example, the Cafe as was overheard was taking almost 50% more each day, does this not cover the any thing that may be lost by the reduction of a couple of dollars on the liange fee.)

What's so difficult to understand, seems simple to me.....lineage means very little when the game rate is insufficent to cover operating costs.

All moving machinery cost big $$$$$ to operate, the more frames the higher the cost, and that's a fact, your only taking into consideration the electricity consumed with your statement...........xspense with the upmost respect I still stand by my original statement, your a mis-informed bowler which is quite obvious by your post......you have some grasp on bowling centre operations but your knowledge concerning business operations is way off, just my opinion, you've got some good idea's as most people do.

I'm all for getting the tournament scene happening AGAIN, revive it back to the heady days of earlier years, there's no use in us all congradulating ourselvies on solutions until we are sure we have covered all bases.......where on the right track, we have all the answers, the gathered people come from a diverse section of population representing consumers, producers and all those in between.........its simple really, we continue the thread, back and forth, we hammer out idea's using our combined knowledge until a solution is found. I'm sure its plausible and quite possible though it has to be done in a civilised matter.......who knows what will happen, could be the start of Australia's largest tournament.

Shawn

 

[Brunswick Tech]

I think the problem with bowling starts and finishes with the price of the social game.

This is what happens in most centres;

Can I have 1 game thank you, asks the customer, "DONG" that will be $10 bucks plus, but we don't want you to do that, we have a package that is much more attractive,BUT I'm not sure if I like to bowl, what about the 3 year old I have with me, "DONG" child rates are $9 bucks, BUT I Don't know if she can even handle a game.

Interview with customer after bowling, how did you find it,"WELL I'm really glad to escape, it will be a long time before I can afford those prices again".

You think this is fiction I see it all the time, I've also seen a lot of people walk out without bowling, because of the prices.

willey.

Willey, A few years ago when I was relocating Bowen Tenpin the game rate advertised on a blackboard (of all things) agult games $1, kids 70 cents.......the earliest rate I can remember is adults for 90 cents

You been in the industry along time what's the cheapest game rate you seen.......in dollars please Willey I don't know the imperial currency. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Shawn

 

[Gary]

I have noticed nice new sign in Knox & Dandy bowl ( you may have seen them in your local AMF centre nice black and yellow ) the first thing i noticed was ( and it jumped at me ) was 1 game $9.00 + shoe hire :!:

How are they going to get new customer's and keep them at those prise's :roll:

So why **** on your regular league / tournament bowler by offering less :!:

Some staff/assistant manager's have picked up that if you run a cheaper type tournament you do get number's ie: Knox win an AO spot we even sshh dont tell but we got free grub as well and i thought it was fun and enjoyable. They had 24 bowler's spending when normaly would not have. $1440 less prize money was the centre's result. Plus return custom ( well i went back ) and that's saying something for Knox :lol:

So what's my point make tournament's value for money. Because if it's value we come back and if we come back that mean's you get more of our money it's all about turn over.

Got to go i have to wipe my chin :roll:

Gary..........................

 

[lgt]

Take the time out to invest in the future turnover or clientelle or whatever the business acronym of the day is, but the simple addition for me is junior league bowler + centre encouragement = 30 years of bolwers' lineage with friends and family along for the ride, balls, bags, shoes, grips and etc.Is this too simplistic or is the attitude all about the now $.
My kids satrted bowling five years ago, first one then the other, have had many parties and several school functions (organised by me), as well as leagues, coaching, tournaments and social play. We support the centres that give back to the bowlers and don't attend where they are not wanted.
Many cantres do not take advantage of the captive audience to make $ from food and beverage service, or promote school groups....all too hard...prefer the simple lineage on the Sat morning. I hope not.