Are females allowed to compete with the men in Country Cup?

[wchester]

I brought this subject up last night at league. Having never actually seen the 'printed' rules governing Country Cup, I really don't have the answer. But what I do know is that whenever there is a ranked tournament in Australia which has both a mens and ladies division, that the ladies can choose to bowl the 'mens' division if they so decide. Kate Wilton, for example has chosen to bowl against the guys on a number of occasions, while bypassing the ladies tournament being held at the same time. And in the past a number of women have chosen to bowl in the more lucrative 'mens' side of a tournament.

So, why not fill out your Country Cup sides with the best available or highest qualifying bowler, gender notwithstanding?

 

[sampson1791]

Wayne
Great question!!
I'm off to the VCTBA meeting tomorrow, I'll ask & get a set of the rules for this.

Cheers
Jason

 

[bowlrig]

With Country Cup, there is a Men's division and a Women's division and the winner of Country Cup is the total points for the Men's and Women's Divisions combined. Fairly simple I thought.

With Kate I think you will find that she does not bowl in men only tournaments, she bowls in Open events, which means either gender may bowl if they so wish.

JMO

Rob

 

[wchester]

Rob,
A few of our ranked tournaments have both a mens and womens division. At times a couple of the ladies have chosen to bowl in the 'mens' division. Therefore what you wrote doesn't show the whole picture. Is there a written rule against it or isn't there? That is the question at hand.

 

[Straight_kut]

Rob,
A few of our ranked tournaments have both a mens and womens division. At times a couple of the ladies have chosen to bowl in the 'mens' division. Therefore what you wrote doesn't show the whole picture. Is there a written rule against it or isn't there? That is the question at hand.

So you are saying men should be able to bowl in the womens team in country cup also? I mean if its ok for women to bowl with the men why cant a man bowl with the women?
Country cup format as rob has said has both divisions, and the winner is the combined points from each. Pretty good set up i think.
And in relation to

So, why not fill out your Country Cup sides with the best available or highest qualifying bowler, gender notwithstanding?

So you have now restricted it to one team from each centre, so 7 bowlers only.. as opposed to 2 teams (men and women) which is 14 bowlers.. As it would be pointless having 2 mixed teams from the same centre if you have stacked the first team with your 7 best bowlers. the more people participating the better imho. Also makes better atmosphere. And believe it or not some fun and friendly rivalry which im not sure you associate too much with bowling at all reading some of your posts (country cup thread) which seem 99% dedicated to winning.
Just my 2 cents worth anyway.

 

[bowlrig]

And the question at hand has no substance.

Why would you want to stuff around with a successful tournament?

As I said before two seperate divisions ~ simple.

Also I do believe in the rules it states a mens team consisting of no more than 7 bowlers and a womens team of no more than 7 bowlers from each association.

Just out of curiousity which tournaments have a Mens and Womens division in which the women can bowl in either division? Not being smart, just to lazy to look for myself.

Rob

 

[sampson1791]

While I have PM'd wchester with the VCTBA answer I too am very interested in which tournaments that Women have forfeited bowling in the LADIES/WOMENS division to bowl in the MEN's Division.

 

[Purple_Tweety]

I feel as a woman (yes that is confirmed) and one of the few country cup female bowlers who post on here I want to say something.

Wayne, why ask this question if it doesn't affect you? And why after 25 plus years of a successful tournament would this question just arise now?

Trav made a great point with participation for one. And some centres would not actually have many women who could beat the men, which would mean uneven number of men/ladies.

Yes we as women always love to beat the men off scratch (I'm included in that, Wilma LePage 2008 Paul Kerr first round - winner Miss Williams off scratch). And in the final 8 bowlers in the above mentioned local tournament there were four men and four women left. But not every centre would have the depth in their females to have those numbers.

I have said before and I will say it again, if it ain't broke don't fix it - I know other sports do have options to substitute a lady for a man in the event of no other option. But in Country Cup it's the damn most ridiculous thing I've heard.

There is no female in Country Cup who thinks she is better than every single other female on any other team, so why would any of us want to bowl in the men's division anyway. We all have our ups and downs and we are all beatable.

I would be interested to hear what the VCTBA responded with regarding this question?

 

[MW]

is it just me or does there seem to be someone more stupid and annoying than that shepp boy??

 

[Straight_kut]

Trav made a great point

Just thought id quote this so she cant change it later

 

[Freddo]

While I have PM'd wchester with the VCTBA answer I too am very interested in which tournaments that Women have forfeited bowling in the LADIES/WOMENS division to bowl in the MEN's Division.

Why just PM wchester???????? I think everyone should know what the VCTBA had to say about the question.. Come on we deserve an answer to the question don't just keep it to yourselves.
Regards
Graham S

 

[Purple_Tweety]

Just thought id quote this so she cant change it later

It won't happen often Trav, so enjoy it now!!

 

[sampson1791]

OK
There is only MENS and WOMENS Division.
There is NO OPEN or MIXED division.
Yes the Vic Country Cup is GENDER specific.
Results are based on MENS & WOMENS combined points total. Not a MIXED TEAM AND WOMENS results.
OR if you like MIXED TEAM and MENS totals.

I personally picked up within the open post of this thread that and I quote "And in the past a number of women have chosen to bowl in the more lucrative 'mens' side of a tournament". That this means a CASH prize is on offer.
Country Cup is not.

Opening up MENS division to WOMEN then leaves TOURNAMENT open to MEN bowling the WOMENs division.

My 2 bobs worth.

Jason

 

[craig]

maybe thats a good idea, opening up the tournament to allow men to bowl in the womens division, i think my girls would enjoy chewing up and spitting out a few mens teams or select males

i'm all for fairness and betting

 

[down and in]

sorry, slightly off topic for a second. do the paid up members of the TBA get to vote for chairperson???? or is it the committee??? cos after reading some posts here, can think of someone i don't think i'd vote for. just my humble opinion.

 

[wchester]

sorry, slightly off topic for a second. do the paid up members of the TBA get to vote for chairperson???? or is it the committee??? cos after reading some posts here, can think of someone i don't think i'd vote for. just my humble opinion.

I don't believe craig is running for the postion.

Seriously though..what have I done, except to ask a simple question regarding team eligibility?

 

[wchester]

The following quote is taken directly from the Victorian Country Tenpin Bowling Association (VCTBA) written rules for the Country Cup.

1. PURPOSE

(a) The purpose of the Victorian Country Cup is to foster friendship, sportsmanship and tenpin bowling skills among the Victorian Country Associations.

(b) To conduct an annual tournament, the Country Cup, to determine the best Ladies team, the best Men’s team and the best combined Country Association Team.

(c) To determine annually the best Victorian Country Association representative tenpin bowlers, consisting of five (5) players in the ladies division and (5) players in the men’s division.


N.B. Paragraph (c) uses the non-gender specific term players instead of saying men or ladies. This could be construed as a legal loophole which should be closed before someone challenges the rule's validity.

 

[bowlrig]

This could be construed as a legal loophole which should be closed before someone challenges the rule's validity.

No person has challenged the validity of the rule in 25 years and I don't think that anyone, either male or female, will in the future.

It was a nonsensical question in the first place.

One thing I do not understand though Wayne, is why you seem to get a kick out of stirring crap in something that you are not really interested in.

JMO

Rob

PS... Have you worked out which tournaments you were quoting as yet?

 

[*chook :>*]

(c) To determine annually the best Victorian Country Association representative tenpin bowlers, consisting of five (5) players in the ladies division and (5) players in the men’s division.
N.B. Paragraph (c) uses the non-gender specific term players instead of saying men or ladies. This could be construed as a legal loophole which should be closed before someone challenges the rule's validity.

How is that not gender specific?

 

[Straight_kut]

No person has challenged the validity of the rule in 25 years and I don't think that anyone, either male or female, will in the future.
It was a nonsensical question in the first place.
One thing I do not understand though Wayne, is why you seem to get a kick out of stirring crap in something that you are not really interested in.
JMO
Rob
PS... Have you worked out which tournaments you were quoting as yet?

Agreed, the people that choose to bowl the tournament imho bowl it because of the format and the fact it is very competitive and very successful.