C
crazzzed
if the patterns are going to change then i think that finding a place with the ability to lay similar patterns would take preference over bowling on wooden lanes.
rachuig 2005
- Thread starter chucker
- Start date
jedi_bowler
Is the Force with you?
I agree with Chuckers last post all the way! 
bowlrig
Just A Bowler
Hi Mac,
Bit harsh on those that have to travel to arrange two weekends in a row.
I think they trials should be held on wood lanes, as everyone knows there is a big difference in bowling on the two surfaces.
Long oil on timber removes alot of area for some bowlers.
Also no word from the committee on how it is to be run, hopefully not the same as last year.
rOB
Bit harsh on those that have to travel to arrange two weekends in a row.
I think they trials should be held on wood lanes, as everyone knows there is a big difference in bowling on the two surfaces.
Long oil on timber removes alot of area for some bowlers.
Also no word from the committee on how it is to be run, hopefully not the same as last year.
rOB
jockey
Member
Craig
If you looked carefully you will see that the top 16 play 15 games of matchplay. Three on the second day of Trial 1 and 12 in Trial 2.
All bowlers bowl 9 games qualifying then the Top 16 commence the matchplay section of the Rachuig Trials and the rest of the bowlers bowl in the 6 game shootout.
Note prizemoney goes to the top 7 men and women in the Top 16 after the 9 games qualifying and to the top 7 men and women after the shootout.
The venues could be swapped around if that is what was preferred.
Brett
I think the only thing wrong with your proposal is that I doubt whether we could find 3 weekends where all will be available to bowl.
Mac & Brenton
I too reckon the shirt is reward enough but there are those among us who don't hold too the same ideals. I added the prizemoney component to the Top 16 as I thought that this may encourage some who wouldn't try out without any return.
Also to find two consecutive weekends is going to be tough and I agree with Rob that we might be placing a high burden on the country bowlers doing so.
Great to see some ideas that are different.
I, like Brett think that in order to get high numbers to the trials there has to be the promise of something for the bowlers who miss the cut to the matchplay section.
Whether that be skins or a shootout there has to be something to make these bowlers especially the fringe ones front up to the trials.
Whatever the format that is selected I believe it must have the bowlers who make it through to the second week playing in a teams oriented matchplay format. Whether we have top 16 in four person teams (15 games matchplay) or top 20 in five person teams (19 games matchplay) that will invariably determine how low the total entry fee can be. It will also go a long way to ensure we have the best 7 bowlers in the Rachuig side.
To be fair and equitable to all who make it to the second trial everyone must play each other once. There should be no seedings, and the top 7 past the post should earn the shirts without any additional scenarios. Selection is archaic!
I also believe that if you are going to be fair dinkum about getting the best Rachuig side to Illawarra then you have to bowl on wood.
The idea of bowling on long and short oil is puzzling. Unless Rachuig is to be done under the same conditions then I don't see any real benefit in adopting this method especially if you don't bowl on wood. You might get the best bowlers over the two lane dressings on synthetics only to find they are like a fish out of water up at Illawarra on wood.
What oiling machine and oil do they use at Illawarra?
How open is the bowl? Is the air conditioning even across the centre?
A lot of factors will determine what centres should be chosen for the trials.
I'm sure some of you other bowlers have some ideas so post them so we can gather all the ideas and push for the best possible format.
If you looked carefully you will see that the top 16 play 15 games of matchplay. Three on the second day of Trial 1 and 12 in Trial 2.
All bowlers bowl 9 games qualifying then the Top 16 commence the matchplay section of the Rachuig Trials and the rest of the bowlers bowl in the 6 game shootout.
Note prizemoney goes to the top 7 men and women in the Top 16 after the 9 games qualifying and to the top 7 men and women after the shootout.
The venues could be swapped around if that is what was preferred.
Brett
I think the only thing wrong with your proposal is that I doubt whether we could find 3 weekends where all will be available to bowl.
Mac & Brenton
I too reckon the shirt is reward enough but there are those among us who don't hold too the same ideals. I added the prizemoney component to the Top 16 as I thought that this may encourage some who wouldn't try out without any return.
Also to find two consecutive weekends is going to be tough and I agree with Rob that we might be placing a high burden on the country bowlers doing so.
Great to see some ideas that are different.
I, like Brett think that in order to get high numbers to the trials there has to be the promise of something for the bowlers who miss the cut to the matchplay section.
Whether that be skins or a shootout there has to be something to make these bowlers especially the fringe ones front up to the trials.
Whatever the format that is selected I believe it must have the bowlers who make it through to the second week playing in a teams oriented matchplay format. Whether we have top 16 in four person teams (15 games matchplay) or top 20 in five person teams (19 games matchplay) that will invariably determine how low the total entry fee can be. It will also go a long way to ensure we have the best 7 bowlers in the Rachuig side.
To be fair and equitable to all who make it to the second trial everyone must play each other once. There should be no seedings, and the top 7 past the post should earn the shirts without any additional scenarios. Selection is archaic!
I also believe that if you are going to be fair dinkum about getting the best Rachuig side to Illawarra then you have to bowl on wood.
The idea of bowling on long and short oil is puzzling. Unless Rachuig is to be done under the same conditions then I don't see any real benefit in adopting this method especially if you don't bowl on wood. You might get the best bowlers over the two lane dressings on synthetics only to find they are like a fish out of water up at Illawarra on wood.
What oiling machine and oil do they use at Illawarra?
How open is the bowl? Is the air conditioning even across the centre?
A lot of factors will determine what centres should be chosen for the trials.
I'm sure some of you other bowlers have some ideas so post them so we can gather all the ideas and push for the best possible format.
C
crazzzed
here a thought from left field...
maybe to generate more funds what if you were to have a multiple event quailifing. eg. find a centre willing to run quailifing over a period of one month. something like 4 games. this way people could try as many times as they like and would make it easier to work around other events. now on the last saturday you would have times all day, maybe 5 or 6 squads. then start the next day (sunday) with the first day of the trials. you could take around 30 bowlers from qualifing. bowl 6 games/5man teams. then cut to 16 for the last weekend.
if you make it, lets say $30-$40 for the qualifing then that might encourage people to try out. Now depending on how it was structure the top 30 would then pay to enter the trials. now if the field is then cut after the 6 games on the sunday then those who make the top 16 would pay to continue.
here are some rough figures becuase its hard to calculate costs required as numbers are unknown:
QUALIFING:
$35
4 games
4-6 week duration
mulitiple attempts permitted
Top 30 advance to Elimination Stage
pinfall carrys forward
ELIMINATION
$100
30 bowlers
6 games
5 man teams
Top 16 advance to Selection Stage
pinfall carrys forward
SELECTION
$200
16 bowlers
15 games - 8 Saturday/7 Sunday
4 man teams
Top 7 make the team
i dont know if it would work but i thought i'd throw it the ring to see what everyone thought.
maybe to generate more funds what if you were to have a multiple event quailifing. eg. find a centre willing to run quailifing over a period of one month. something like 4 games. this way people could try as many times as they like and would make it easier to work around other events. now on the last saturday you would have times all day, maybe 5 or 6 squads. then start the next day (sunday) with the first day of the trials. you could take around 30 bowlers from qualifing. bowl 6 games/5man teams. then cut to 16 for the last weekend.
if you make it, lets say $30-$40 for the qualifing then that might encourage people to try out. Now depending on how it was structure the top 30 would then pay to enter the trials. now if the field is then cut after the 6 games on the sunday then those who make the top 16 would pay to continue.
here are some rough figures becuase its hard to calculate costs required as numbers are unknown:
QUALIFING:
$35
4 games
4-6 week duration
mulitiple attempts permitted
Top 30 advance to Elimination Stage
pinfall carrys forward
ELIMINATION
$100
30 bowlers
6 games
5 man teams
Top 16 advance to Selection Stage
pinfall carrys forward
SELECTION
$200
16 bowlers
15 games - 8 Saturday/7 Sunday
4 man teams
Top 7 make the team
i dont know if it would work but i thought i'd throw it the ring to see what everyone thought.
xpense
retired
Just a thought for a format.
Would be a long first day, but the other 3 days would be OK.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Stage 1 - Qualifying
$100.00 (say 40 men & 30 women) ($7000.00) (Fees $3500.00)
Day 1
10 games
3 - 4 per lane
Top 20 Announced
19 games matchplay
30 pins a win
15 draw
Stage 2 - Matchplay
$150.00 ($6000.00) (fees $3800.00)
Day 2
6 games
5 man teams
Oil after 3
Pinfall carryover
Day 3
6 games
5 man teams
Oil after 3
Pinfall carryover
Day 4
7 games
5 man teams
Oil after 3
Pinfall carryover
Top 7 past the post, make up the teams.
Approx $5700 raised for the team. This is at a game rate of $5
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
The only thing l see is the number of bowlers trying out for next year. I hope this is not the case but l can see a decline in numbers, for the simple fact it is interstate, and that may have inflated the those that tried out this year.
39 men & 23 women tried out in 2004, for a home event. All the ideas that have been put up are all around the numbers, lets hope they all try out, and more for next year.
Would be a long first day, but the other 3 days would be OK.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Stage 1 - Qualifying
$100.00 (say 40 men & 30 women) ($7000.00) (Fees $3500.00)
Day 1
10 games
3 - 4 per lane
Top 20 Announced
19 games matchplay
30 pins a win
15 draw
Stage 2 - Matchplay
$150.00 ($6000.00) (fees $3800.00)
Day 2
6 games
5 man teams
Oil after 3
Pinfall carryover
Day 3
6 games
5 man teams
Oil after 3
Pinfall carryover
Day 4
7 games
5 man teams
Oil after 3
Pinfall carryover
Top 7 past the post, make up the teams.
Approx $5700 raised for the team. This is at a game rate of $5
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
The only thing l see is the number of bowlers trying out for next year. I hope this is not the case but l can see a decline in numbers, for the simple fact it is interstate, and that may have inflated the those that tried out this year.
39 men & 23 women tried out in 2004, for a home event. All the ideas that have been put up are all around the numbers, lets hope they all try out, and more for next year.
Woza
Active Member
All bowlers pay $25 Nomination
Lets say that we get 80 and 40 total 120 bowlers (to bowl in 5 man teams = 24 lanes minimum)
(Want to bowl on Wood and lay down a condition, as per TBA Regs then Werribee would be the center. Most probably the most central location to attract the majority of Country bowlers)
Each day start at 9:00 am (1 hour per game + 1 hour oil break – 9 hour total) 6 pm finish
(I think that most people if they are going to travel they would rather travel for more games than less, also it is easier to get one weekend off than it is two in a row and travel costs are kept to a minimum)
Qualifying Round
$50 per day - Total $100
Saturday - Long Oil Pattern
Day 1 – 8 games (Oil after 4) Bowling 5 man teams lane change after every game
Sunday - Short Oil Pattern
Day 2 – 8 games (Oil after 4) Bowling 5 man teams lane change after every game
Total cost of Qualifying - $125 – Gives you 16 games in tournament condition against the best bowlers in the state.
I also think that paying out prizes for high games and etc to people out of the top 20 is a good idea.
At the conclusion of 16 games then you take the top 20 through to the head to head match play.
At this stage whether you carry over the pinfall or not is up for discussion. I think that once you made the top 20 your pinfall from the qualifying round is dropped. Use the incentive of free entry into the Head to Head match play for Top male and Female of the Qualifying round.
Whether you play the head to head over 2 weekends or one is to be decided. I.e. 7 then 6 & 6 or 10 & 9. (Again I think that for most people it is easier to get one weekend off than it is two in a row and travel costs are kept to a minimum)
I don’t think that it matters where you bowl these games (i.e. synthetic or wood) as you are bowling head to head against your direct opponent. At the end the top seven to represent Victoria is made up from total pinfall plus bonus pins of 30 per win 15 per draw.
If you made the top 20 you have paid out $250 for 16+19 = 35 games (Unless you were top qualifier then you have only paid out $125)
I think that the question should be asked and hasn’t been answered yet. Is what are people prepared to pay to represent their state.
I would have thought that around the $250 to $350 mark would attract the majority of people to trial if this were the cost once they made the team. Remembering that you have already paid out $250 for the trials. Lets say that it costs you $600 to trial and represent your State, which equates to $12 per week in round terms or approx $2 per day ($2 per day - $730 per year so you now have some spending money) (Can see everyone racing out and buying piggy banks)
I am not sure what it has cost people in the past but I believe that figures over the $1000 closer to $2000 are not uncommon. Obviously fundraising and sponsors can greatly reduce these costs. For instance if you were to run a raffle for the qualifying trials if everyone was to receive a book of 20 raffle tickets at a $1 each pre-sent once nominations have closed to be sold prior to the commencement of the Qualifying Trial (for 120 nominations that is $2400 – take out $400 for prizes then that is another $2000 for the team trip let alone what you sell for the 2 days of qualifying trials)
Lets say that we get 80 and 40 total 120 bowlers (to bowl in 5 man teams = 24 lanes minimum)
(Want to bowl on Wood and lay down a condition, as per TBA Regs then Werribee would be the center. Most probably the most central location to attract the majority of Country bowlers)
Each day start at 9:00 am (1 hour per game + 1 hour oil break – 9 hour total) 6 pm finish
(I think that most people if they are going to travel they would rather travel for more games than less, also it is easier to get one weekend off than it is two in a row and travel costs are kept to a minimum)
Qualifying Round
$50 per day - Total $100
Saturday - Long Oil Pattern
Day 1 – 8 games (Oil after 4) Bowling 5 man teams lane change after every game
Sunday - Short Oil Pattern
Day 2 – 8 games (Oil after 4) Bowling 5 man teams lane change after every game
Total cost of Qualifying - $125 – Gives you 16 games in tournament condition against the best bowlers in the state.
I also think that paying out prizes for high games and etc to people out of the top 20 is a good idea.
At the conclusion of 16 games then you take the top 20 through to the head to head match play.
At this stage whether you carry over the pinfall or not is up for discussion. I think that once you made the top 20 your pinfall from the qualifying round is dropped. Use the incentive of free entry into the Head to Head match play for Top male and Female of the Qualifying round.
Whether you play the head to head over 2 weekends or one is to be decided. I.e. 7 then 6 & 6 or 10 & 9. (Again I think that for most people it is easier to get one weekend off than it is two in a row and travel costs are kept to a minimum)
I don’t think that it matters where you bowl these games (i.e. synthetic or wood) as you are bowling head to head against your direct opponent. At the end the top seven to represent Victoria is made up from total pinfall plus bonus pins of 30 per win 15 per draw.
If you made the top 20 you have paid out $250 for 16+19 = 35 games (Unless you were top qualifier then you have only paid out $125)
I think that the question should be asked and hasn’t been answered yet. Is what are people prepared to pay to represent their state.
I would have thought that around the $250 to $350 mark would attract the majority of people to trial if this were the cost once they made the team. Remembering that you have already paid out $250 for the trials. Lets say that it costs you $600 to trial and represent your State, which equates to $12 per week in round terms or approx $2 per day ($2 per day - $730 per year so you now have some spending money) (Can see everyone racing out and buying piggy banks)
I am not sure what it has cost people in the past but I believe that figures over the $1000 closer to $2000 are not uncommon. Obviously fundraising and sponsors can greatly reduce these costs. For instance if you were to run a raffle for the qualifying trials if everyone was to receive a book of 20 raffle tickets at a $1 each pre-sent once nominations have closed to be sold prior to the commencement of the Qualifying Trial (for 120 nominations that is $2400 – take out $400 for prizes then that is another $2000 for the team trip let alone what you sell for the 2 days of qualifying trials)
Good to see all you guys discussing the Rachuig Trials and cost etc.
I think Wozza makes sense by having the trials over 1 weekend as it will encourage bowlers from the country to come down and have a try. Or otherwise the city bowlers going to one of the country centres. Either way if we can get as many games into 1 weekend it will save everyone some dollars.
I think the best part of this conversation is that we have so many different views and proposals, and I am sure that the State body will be looking at all these before making up their minds.
Lets hope that we can get 80 bowlers plus to try out at next years trials it will be a win regardless what format is finally announced.
I think Wozza makes sense by having the trials over 1 weekend as it will encourage bowlers from the country to come down and have a try. Or otherwise the city bowlers going to one of the country centres. Either way if we can get as many games into 1 weekend it will save everyone some dollars.
I think the best part of this conversation is that we have so many different views and proposals, and I am sure that the State body will be looking at all these before making up their minds.
Lets hope that we can get 80 bowlers plus to try out at next years trials it will be a win regardless what format is finally announced.
Hi guys, seing that Rachuig next year maybe on Short oil for 9 Games and Long oil for the next 9 games. Why not bowl in our 1 day event at Ed Fleming Lanes on the 9th Jan 2005. We will be bowling 10 games with 5 on short and 5 on long oiling pattern. Entry fee is $100.00 with prize fund pay out just on $4000.00. Prize pay out is based on 56 bowlers and max we can take is 70 bowlers which would be 5 to a pair of lanes.
What great way to get a head start on the rest of the country.
Look forward to getting your entries........
What great way to get a head start on the rest of the country.
Look forward to getting your entries........
C
crazzzed
ok lets try a format that would work over just one weekend. they would need to be 2 long days but would help to save on travel costs. what if we just made it a straight shootout. like rachuig 18 games, 2 days, 2 oil patterns...
entry = $225
DAY 1
long pattern
9 games
5 man teams
DAY 2
short pattern
9 games
5 man teams
top 7 make the team
every ones bowls so no matchplay.
18games, 5man teams, first seven past the post make the team.
cost breakdown:
50 bowlers total
18 games each bowler
$4.50 game rate
50 bowlers X $225 entry fee = +$11250
50 bowlers X 18 games X $4.50 = -$4050
which leaves $7200 to go towards the team getting to the 2005 event.
the other thought going around was including awards/prizes into the trials. now i agree that making the team is reward enough but that said what if some bowlers won free entry into the follow year trials. added incentive to come back and would help with numbers each year. maybe adding some money payouts into the trials will encourage more people to try out aswell. with the chance of getting into the following years trials for free or possible money back will entice more people now.
well there you go some more food for thought
entry = $225
DAY 1
long pattern
9 games
5 man teams
DAY 2
short pattern
9 games
5 man teams
top 7 make the team
every ones bowls so no matchplay.
18games, 5man teams, first seven past the post make the team.
cost breakdown:
50 bowlers total
18 games each bowler
$4.50 game rate
50 bowlers X $225 entry fee = +$11250
50 bowlers X 18 games X $4.50 = -$4050
which leaves $7200 to go towards the team getting to the 2005 event.
the other thought going around was including awards/prizes into the trials. now i agree that making the team is reward enough but that said what if some bowlers won free entry into the follow year trials. added incentive to come back and would help with numbers each year. maybe adding some money payouts into the trials will encourage more people to try out aswell. with the chance of getting into the following years trials for free or possible money back will entice more people now.
well there you go some more food for thought
