No WA Rachuig Team 2013 - is this really in the best interests of the sport?

[Docta]

I was having a light hearted joke.
I dont mind throwing a few ideas in for people to look at (and to accept logical criticism) , I dont mind helping with the occasional project, but I dont personally feel the need to be given a position or title. Pretty sure all the people currently representing TBA offered themselves for the right reasons but it does often go a little pear shaped after people have held positions for a while. Have seen it occur many times in both sport and business, so is something people should be aware of before they fall victim. Just my opinion.

Docta, the problem is, if you/we want to change how things are done, you/we have to engage with the people who are currently running the sport. Its less likely that these officials will engage in meaningful discussion if they are only copping a bagging. We need to come up with positive ideas and concepts to replace some existing ones, rather than just be negative on what is already an accepted practice.
I do empathize with your frustration on some things, but change, if any will always be slow, and a softly softly approach will make more ground than only pointing out short comings.
Currently this forum is not achieving any changes to the sport, if we want changes we need to reach out to TBA and engage with them. That is about the only way we will see something happen.
I'm personally asking you, in the best interest of Bowling as a sport, to please be just a little more conciliatory with how you are voicing your views on the long term problems of the sport.
Regards,

Point taken mistagear.

 

[CHIN]

if you/we want to change how things are done, you/we have to engage with the people who are currently running the sport. Its less likely that these officials will engage in meaningful discussion if they are only copping a bagging. We need to come up with positive ideas and concepts to replace some existing ones, rather than just be negative on what is already an accepted practice.
I do empathize with your frustration on some things, but change, if any will always be slow, and a softly softly approach will make more ground than only pointing out short comings.
Currently this forum is not achieving any changes to the sport, if we want changes we need to reach out to TBA and engage with them. That is about the only way we will see something happen.

Regards,

the most sensible post i've seen on here for a long time

 

[Geoff300]

Interesting and a sad subject

Rachuig has been such a special event so for so long, it is a huge part of the History of Bowling in Australia
There are so many subjects to cover within this one subject, It could go on for ever

The Nationals was a huge success at Rooty Hill for the past 3 years, huge entries, great facilities etc
Sadly AMF don't think enough of the sport or have the foresight to continue their support of this event
I don't think many people would argue with that

The majority of Bowlers live on the East Coast of Australia and therefore holding the Nationals in remote
areas, including Townsville, Is a very poor decision...
I know this will be unpopular to say but the Nationals need to be held in the best Centre available in
State that represents the best overall opportunity for the majority to attend. We are a huge Country
and this issue has and will always be an issue.

From my own experience at the Nationals, for many, many years , It costs money to attend and
today people are struggling to find that money to spend on a single event. Travel is a bigger issue
for some than others. I can't go to Townsville.

I have spent many thousands of dollars attending the Nationals over the years and in recent years
as Coach/ Manager It has cost me a heap of cash to attend and Not bowl !!!
I have even given bowlers money out of my own pocket to help them out.... So I get it...

One easy way to help with costs, for ALL representative teams at the Nationals, is to add $1 or $2 to
the entry fee and have the TBA give each travelling State some money to assist with the travel costs
Pretty easy fix if you ask me...

As for the TBA doing more, don't get me started on what is good and bad about that subject.
What I will say, as a previous Chairman on NSW TBA, there are plenty of areas to improve on
and 100% NON paid staff makes it very difficult. I gave it away due to several issues of constant
frustration and what I see as direction issues, If you get my drift...

Compliance issues are now a huge impost on the TBA and it takes a lot of people power to just do that alone.....
For those people who are not involved you have no idea how hard it is dealing with these issues
and how difficult it can be dealing with constant road blocks and negativity in an attempt to get things done.

 

[jimcross]

Compliance issues are now a huge impost on the TBA and it takes a lot of people power to just do that alone.....
For those people who are not involved you have no idea how hard it is dealing with these issues
and how difficult it can be dealing with constant road blocks and negativity in an attempt to get things done.

Yes Geoff, how true. It is everywhere and in everything. Eats up time, money and resources for effectively no practical gain or use.

In my day as a sports administrator we weren't hampered from travelling in a straight line from problem to solution.
Unfortunately most people to-day don't know that there was another way. Not criticising them for that. How could they know?

 

[adamwest]

Irrespective of the reasons there are a few known facts:

There are bowlers who have nominated for the WA team
Presumably these bowlers did so knowing the financial cost to them
There is still a good 6 months until the nationals, the decision that is in THE best interests of the sport would be to re-open nominations, promote the opportunity still exists and do EVERYTHING possible to field a team, even if the draft system was utilized (and that helps others out too).

What reason has TBA of WA given for their decision 6 months out from the event?

Hence my question - best interests of the sport or personal agendas?

Guy D - you seem to want to take it back to personal agendas! Do you know something or are you just trying to s*** stir??

 

[ratty133]

Irrespective of the reasons there are a few known facts:

There are bowlers who have nominated for the WA team
Presumably these bowlers did so knowing the financial cost to them
There is still a good 6 months until the nationals, the decision that is in THE best interests of the sport would be to re-open nominations, promote the opportunity still exists and do EVERYTHING possible to field a team, even if the draft system was utilized (and that helps others out too).

What reason has TBA of WA given for their decision 6 months out from the event?

Hence my question - best interests of the sport or personal agendas?

You seem to know more than most on here Guy D. So perhaps you should be able to tell us everything that has happened? I will tell you this, Nominations were re-opened and to no avail. So maybe you need to crawl back under the rock you emerged from, since you only joined this site to post about this, i think that you are not who you say you are, and like Mitch said, are just on here to stir s***.

Or better yet, perhaps you nominate yourself for the team................like they say, put up or shut up.

Rant over

 

[Guy D]

Matt and Mitch, I ask did you "Put up and Shut Up" Where is your nominations? For the record I am not a WA bowler so no I haven't nominated for the team. In my own state I am an up and coming, I will nominate if the advice given is the right thing to do.

Yes this is Me, me and only me. I was privvy to some information direct from an influentials mouth a few weeks back and it sadened me to hear, and I made the assumption for myself that I wondered what the drivers were, personal agenda's keep rising to the top for me unfortunately. Shit stirring you may think however none of my posts in this thread are what I feel negative, I'm just merrily putting the discussion out there. THat is what this forum is about - Right?

 

[ratty133]

I have already explained that I am not in the country for rachuig this year. I gave up going overseas last year to bowl rachuig and when it was going to cost me the same amount to go to vega as it would to go to Townsville, I chose overseas this year. Not that I need to explain myself to you.

Since your source is so reliable, how come you didn't know that the nominations were in fact reopened???

Up and coming or not, you are ragging on us for not nominating, when in fact you aren't nominating either. When you have bowled for your state in juniors youth and adult, an done 2 trips a year for 5 years, from Perth, then come and complain to us that we haven't nominated.......

 

[Tintam]

Guy D, "people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones". You just seem to want to stir up trouble. Leave the WA Rachuig to our TBA WA, they are quite capable to work out what is best for WA Players. Name your INFLUENTIAL SOURCE or keep quiet.

I was privvy to some information direct from an influentials mouth a few weeks back and it sadened me to hear, and I made the assumption for myself that I wondered what the drivers were, personal agenda's keep rising to the top for me unfortunately.

 

[Guy D]

we are a tetchy mob from WA aren't we?

Interesting statement from Tintam - Leave the WA Rachuig to our TBA WA, they are quite CAPABLE to work out what is best for WA Players ..... I'd like to see this unfold. Seriously, if not sending a WA team away is in the best interests of the players and the sport so be it. I guess they do know what they are doing then!

Matt (albeit others) you have taken to this post quite personally when there has never been a mention of an attack on any individual in any of my posts. Chill man, it's just my comments and obersvations.

Seem to have stirred up a storm, usually that is because people are passionate ...... so again, based upon the passion is not sending a team really in the best interests of the WA players and sport ...... It seems that Tintam believes the TBA WA will make the best decision in the interests of those involved. Watch this space I guess.

 

[yomama]

Guy D,

The TBAWA board decided against not sending a team, due to the fact that it wouldn't be a WA team. With less than a handful of people nominating, even after the re-opening of nominations, it was deemed that a team would not be fielded. With the men finishing 1st, and the women finishing 4th, the draft picks would be slim, and would still pose a problem in possibly filling a a full team. Furthermore, then the TBAWA would have to select the draft picks (if there are any left), we wouldn't be left with the best players to represent OUR state now would we. Then, the committee would have to resort to choosing people who haven't nominated, which shouldn't happen anyway, hence another reason for not sending a team.

Seeing as the board is made up of volunteers who have very little spare time at most, seems like a lot of extra work to send away a team that isn't really representing our state. I'm sure had your so called "reliable source" attended the TBAWA meeting, that is always open for anyone to attend, they would've known these facts and informed you of them. The people who have nominated are understandably upset that there is no team being sent, but without the numbers to even attempt at fielding a team, you are asking people to spend thousands of dollars to go away for a week to attempt to achieve the impossible, and win Rachuig without a whole team.

Sorry, just seems like you should get a better "reliable source", so that you wouldn't be making such a d*$k out of yourself.

 

[ratty133]

Look Guy, i never said you attacked anyone personally, however, YOUR comments at the very beginning of this thread, were nothing but degrading towards our state, and i for one won't stand for. No one in WA expects anyone on the east coast to understand what a financial burden it is for us to travel every year, because frankly, none of you could care less, it only costs you guys your entry fees to play, and maybe a couple hundred dollars to get there and stay (which we usually pay JUST IN FLIGHTS).

Like i said, maybe WA should approach the TBA to get them to hold nationals in WA for the next 10 years and see how many in the east decide to shoe up for rachuig, nationals and masters, knowing its going to cost them between $1200 and $1600 roughly to get here and bowl...............EVERY F****** YEAR. I have bowled 2 Presidents Shields, 5 Youth Challenges and 6 Rachuigs in my career, at an average ill say of $1500 per trip, that is $19,500 i have dedicated JUST TO REPRESENTING MY STATE! That doesn't include all of the prerequisites for us to be able to be considered (state champs, ranked events, other state events etc). The way we all got into these events were as up and comers. You will never improve in this sport if you just pick your events, you need to challenge yourself in fields you are not used to. Answer me this, do you bowl in any ranked events in your own state? Since it only costs you your entry fee to play, you should be in all of these tournaments.............

I for one would love to know who your ever so reliable source is, you should name them since they are so reliable. Then we will have someone else to point our frustration at, since you are apparently just the messenger in all of this......

 

[Guy D]

My original post, included these words

I declared I didn't know if it was Fact, so asked the question 'Fact or Fiction?'

Then asked for opinions, not pointed the finger about two more questions

Best interest of sport or Personal Agenda.

Tetchy responses don't help me move away from the later, sorry folks. That's my opinion based on observation.

Nothing sinister in my post that I can see, just was curious at the time whether it was in fact true - seems it is! Thanks for clearing that part up. Now to work out the answer to the second part if my question ..... Best interest for the Sport (not necessarily the state) or Personal Agendas.

Whilst the draft rules apply to Rachuig every state should field a team with as many home state bowlers as possible, then take what's left no matter how good the pickings are. It gives the ''pickings' opportunities they wouldn't have had. That in my opinion is in the best interest of the sport, and in the name of good sportsmanship and interstate relations I'd have thought all the time poor committees country wide may considered their place and ultimately their obligation to do what is right for the SPORT .... There is no I in TEAM as they say!!

 

[ratty133]

So we shall see you on your state committee effective tomorrow I assume?

Don't forget, all committee members nationwide are volunteers, and put up with a lot of s***, and ultimately don't want to be there by the end of it all. Just remember that.

 

[Mark Worthington]

Maybe you should read Matt's reply a little bit more closely, there is a huge financial cost to attend such events, i dont think you guys have comprehended that yet, if the bowlers are not from WA then its not a WA TEAM it couldnt be more plain than that, i take my hat off to our top bowlers like Matt and the likes who put so much into the sport and inspire the new comers like myself to challange oursleves and get out there and bowl at these big events,which by the way costs big time but we do it coz we want to compete against the best, im sure WA will bounce back next year and have a whole new team, best intrest of the sport is to just worry about your own state and not others, from what i see it would seem Queenslanders have not been that forthcoming to the event either given the resent post of how disapointing there nominations were, fill a team twice over as stated by Andrew my backside, if your not from WA then it has no real concern for you,

 

[Mistagear]

In my opinion, Bowling Sport in Australia needs a permanent home of excellence. A place where talent congregates to showcase our sport. A place where National Championships and THE most important tournaments are held in this country. The complex should include state of the art training facilities for bowlers and coaching.
Our National Body should be located there and the latest innovations to broadcast televised events would be built in to the complex.
This would be one way in which the National Body could start to take control of the sport. The Centre would help to finance costs for elite bowlers to compete in these prestigious events such as Rachuig and the Nationals through being a commercial venture during the year and then subsidizing teams travelling greater distances as well as being in a position to offer very low bowling fees at these national events which would further help to offset costs to compete.
If the sport's controlling body had such an asset, it would allow far greater latitude in the promotion of the sport at every level and go a long way to ensure the sport of bowling could prosper in the future.
The venture could be financed in many ways, such as a one off levy which offered future discount on annual fees, possible Government grants or even a sweepstakes created and offered initially to all TBA members and league bowlers across Aust.
It may even be possible to form a partnership with a Hotel Chain which would then be able to have an accommodation facility associated with the complex and the Hotel Chain gains a state of the art bowling complex as part of the development.

I believe a proposal for ATBC to buy the Rushcutter's Bay Bowl back in the late 60's or early 70's was rejected at the time.
Imagine if the Sport's Executive had the foresight to go ahead with the deal at that time, how many benefits and how much profit could have been directed back into the sport over the last 40 yrs. By now bowling in Australia could have had at least one Centre in every state, every one able to inject benefits back into bowling as a sport. TBA Centres could easily have been in greater numbers than AMF or any other Bowling Centre Operators.
It's not too late to start !

 

[Michael Little]

In my opinion, Bowling Sport in Australia needs a permanent home of excellence. A place where talent congregates to showcase our sport. A place where National Championships and THE most important tournaments are held in this country. The complex should include state of the art training facilities for bowlers and coaching.
Our National Body should be located there and the latest innovations to broadcast televised events would be built in to the complex.
This would be one way in which the National Body could start to take control of the sport. The Centre would help to finance costs for elite bowlers to compete in these prestigious events such as Rachuig and the Nationals through being a commercial venture during the year and then subsidizing teams travelling greater distances as well as being in a position to offer very low bowling fees at these national events which would further help to offset costs to compete.
If the sport's controlling body had such an asset, it would allow far greater latitude in the promotion of the sport at every level and go a long way to ensure the sport of bowling could prosper in the future.
The venture could be financed in many ways, such as a one off levy which offered future discount on annual fees, possible Government grants or even a sweepstakes created and offered initially to all TBA members and league bowlers across Aust.
It may even be possible to form a partnership with a Hotel Chain which would then be able to have an accommodation facility associated with the complex and the Hotel Chain gains a state of the art bowling complex as part of the development.

I believe a proposal for ATBC to buy the Rushcutter's Bay Bowl back in the late 60's or early 70's was rejected at the time.
Imagine if the Sport's Executive had the foresight to go ahead with the deal at that time, how many benefits and how much profit could have been directed back into the sport over the last 40 yrs. By now bowling in Australia could have had at least one Centre in every state, every one able to inject benefits back into bowling as a sport. TBA Centres could easily have been in greater numbers than AMF or any other Bowling Centre Operators.
It's not too late to start !

This has been a pipe dream of mine for the last decade, still waiting for that lotto win lol

 

[Guy D]

So let me just clarify ..... This is a forum right? I didn't read in the rules of this forum that MY opinion or thoughts had to match those of adamwest or ratty133, nor did I read in there that I could only comment on my own states issues. To be frank, the issue of any state not sending a team is in fact an issue for ALL states and Territories alike. Not sending a team could be the fall over of the event, next year might be too late for WA to suddenly decide to participate again, perhaps TBA might offer their spot in the tournament to another region, zone or international team for instance. It's a very short sighted view point of what appears to be the committee and the bowlers not seeing past the end of their own nose.

Oh well, I'll go hide under my rock in my own state. It's no wonder bowling doesn't progress, very short sighted.

 

[yomama]

There was an instance at youth challenge this year, in which NT could not field a team, so the spot was offered to an international team. I believe someone had asked around and found some people who were willing to bowl, but were told they weren't required as an international team had been offered the spot instead. When the international team pulled out at the last minute, the people who were asked to bowl, refused, so a pacer team was sourced.

Seeing as I cannot see past my own nose, because according to you, I fit this description of personal agendas taking precedence over Rachuig, I'm shall stick my nose up at you and leave you to your rock.

 

[jimcross]

In my opinion, Bowling Sport in Australia needs a permanent home of excellence. A place where talent congregates to showcase our sport. A place where National Championships and THE most important tournaments are held in this country. The complex should include state of the art training facilities for bowlers and coaching.
Our National Body should be located there and the latest innovations to broadcast televised events would be built in to the complex.
This would be one way in which the National Body could start to take control of the sport. The Centre would help to finance costs for elite bowlers to compete in these prestigious events such as Rachuig and the Nationals through being a commercial venture during the year and then subsidizing teams travelling greater distances as well as being in a position to offer very low bowling fees at these national events which would further help to offset costs to compete.
If the sport's controlling body had such an asset, it would allow far greater latitude in the promotion of the sport at every level and go a long way to ensure the sport of bowling could prosper in the future.
The venture could be financed in many ways, such as a one off levy which offered future discount on annual fees, possible Government grants or even a sweepstakes created and offered initially to all TBA members and league bowlers across Aust.
It may even be possible to form a partnership with a Hotel Chain which would then be able to have an accommodation facility associated with the complex and the Hotel Chain gains a state of the art bowling complex as part of the development.

I believe a proposal for ATBC to buy the Rushcutter's Bay Bowl back in the late 60's or early 70's was rejected at the time.
Imagine if the Sport's Executive had the foresight to go ahead with the deal at that time, how many benefits and how much profit could have been directed back into the sport over the last 40 yrs. By now bowling in Australia could have had at least one Centre in every state, every one able to inject benefits back into bowling as a sport. TBA Centres could easily have been in greater numbers than AMF or any other Bowling Centre Operators.
It's not too late to start !

This is probably the most important post ever on this forum, unfortunately it is probably wasted here. This forum generally is not good at 'deep' issues. Certainly, and at least, it should be posted to a thread of it's own.
Unlikely as it is that anything will actually be done: seriously, it is about the ONLY ACTION which has a possibility to lift the sport out of the doldrums. As it stands, to pretend that TBA, or indeed any so called 'controlling body', can ever exercise the authority necessary to properly represent the sport, to properly finance the sport, to properly control the sport, and at the same time be totally reliant upon other organisations for each and every one of the venues, without the use of which there is no sport and no TBA, is a fantasy.
Take a deep breath and think about it. The centres do not - repeat, do not, need the TBA, but at the same time TBA totally relies on the centres. Fact!
There is almost no other sport totally reliant on the goodwill ( charity ) of private enterprise, with it's own legitimate business agenda. And there is no arguement that TBA, almost exclusively among sporting bodies is in this position.

Have a look at John Velo's post on here somewhere ( How can TBA Differentiate itself From Your Local Centre ? )relating to soccer, particularly junior soccer, and see the differences which generally apply in similar ways across the vast majority of sports. Wonder how they would survive if suddenly faced with TBA's situation.

This is doable. It really is. Most people on here would have no idea how many large successful clubs - Golf- RSL's - Football, etc., were started by a handful of blokes meeting in someone's tin shed with an idea, and setting out to raise money and interest,until their dream became reality.
If you were to delve back into it's past, I wouldn't be surprised if the Rooty Hill RSL Club started in exactly this way.