Lower Cost? Whats Your Thought's

[Dougy]

Hi everyone



I have notice some talk about getting more junior/youths into tournaments or the lack of them bowling in them because of the cost of the entry fee. So I have been thinking a fair bit on the matter and how can we fix it, I’m not saying my ideas are the right ones but I feel as bowlers who have been around long enough we should start to talk and think about this.

I understand that for the junior/youths to gain exp their need to bowl in such tournaments but how can they do this is the cost of the entry fee is the problem for them? For me it’s like trying to look for a job but everyone wants exp workers and no one willing to give them a go.

So let’s get our thinking hats on and use this as a great time to get some ideas out there and when all said and done we need this to take the right steps forward for the future our sport.

I am hoping you guys and girls will have an import and the junior/youths on please tell us what u see as the problem.

So here are a few ideas I have thought of:

For tournaments do we lower the entry fee for a junior/youth of age 21 and under? And they still full under the same prize fund as everyone else?

OR

Do junior/youths pay they own entry fee and have they own prize fund just for them but in doing this if entry numbers are not very high for them than the prize fund is not very high! So I feel this one maybe a catch 22

I know in some tournaments we still have a prize for the best junior/youth but is this still enough for them.

So that’s all for the moment please let’s gets the thinking hats on and let’s put a spark back in bowling.

Cheers Doug

 

[nev25]

I wasnt going to comment but its got the better of me
Seems like another endless circle

But have to ask

For tournaments do we lower the entry fee for a junior/youth of age 21 and under? And they still full under the same prize fund as everyone else?

With lower entry fee where would the same prize money come from??

Do junior/youths pay they own entry fee and have they own prize fund just for them but in doing this if entry numbers are not very high for them than the prize fund is not very high! So I feel this one maybe a catch 22

Isnt this the way they are currently run??

Am I missing something??

 

[Dougy]

Wat i meant buy same prize fund is that if ur bowling and paying say 220 and someone 21 and under only pay say 180 do u think its fair? Because if they paying a cheaper entry fee to u, for the same pay out wheather u or them win.. Some bowlers i have talked to about it say yes its unfair that the entry fee should be the same and others say yes we shoukd lower the price for them to get them to enter more..

 

[Schmicko]

I think the only way to cut the entry fee and still allocate the same prize monies is to drop the game rate, most tourneys get a pretty sweet deal on game rates as it is, centres still need to covers their costs.

I assume we're talking about scratch tourneys here, even with the lower entry the kids still need to mix it with some of the best adult bowlers (which some can) but some of the kids just finding some form maybe scared off by some of the names on squad lists.

My idea would be a seperate youth tourney coinciding with the adults (even mixing up the two lane draws that way the older bowlers can disperse knowledge and give moral support) with a reduced entry fee made up of the same game rate as the adults but a smaller prizefund portion.. As we know its not as simple as making a flyer and hoping for the best. Centres, coaches, parents, adult bowlers all need to help recruit the kidlets.. Incentives will need to be used also..

That's my grain of salt

 

[John_Velo]

For me the Sports Series is the best value for money event you can bowl in. $100 first past the post and only three hours. Like 20/20 is keeping cricket alive, short format may be the answer to bowling. 10 games top three play off top 1/3 of the field get a payout.

Run one each month, 12 per state would give plenty of bowling options. With a pool fund for the series top three.

Just a thought, also restrict ball numbers per entry to say four or six.

 

[Jasonguru]

I wasnt going to comment but its got the better of me
Seems like another endless circle

But have to ask



With lower entry fee where would the same prize money come from??



Isnt this the way they are currently run??

Am I missing something??

What is Doug is aiming for here is some positive input to entice junior/youth or any young bowler into bowling more tournaments and gaining experience. Without the future you have nothing. He is simply trying to invigorate the sport and is doing a lot for bowling on the GC right now.
This thread is all about positive input and asking questions to get POSITIVE feedback, not running down comments.

You should not have commented at all unless you have some POSITIVE input to add to the questions he is asking.

Thanks guys for the input so far.

My 5 cents now.

1. Creating a seperate prize fund is possible if you have great numbers for the event, about 70+ in my opinion.
2. Perhaps an 8 pins start like national events for ladies next year? This is a possible option.
3. Would a seperate high placegetter incentive be enough along with the prize fund on offer?

Thoughts people? Particularly youth/junior. What is stopping your group for bowling in tournaments right now?

 

[Roysa]

From some previously removed posts what is stopping them is the tournamnets being made handicap and how they cant "smash" the young kids anymore... just an observation.

 

[Jasonguru]

Not the case. The youth/junior bowlers are not participating in numbers like they were years ago. What is sought is how to correct this.

If a junior/youth bowler had pins in some type of handicap that is more incentive for them. Adult bowlers still bowl, look at the senior participation numbers, they are great. What is needed most to increase tourney numbers around the country is the junior/youth increase in entries and this topic is to find out how it can be done. I think that is what Doug is seeking. I will let him clear that one up if need be.

 

[ratty133]

Having organised tournaments in the past and currently helping out with a few others, this debate always comes up. In the Perth Cup many years ago, the lower average players were offered a lower entry fee (I think regular entry was $240 and discounted was $180). This was offered to entice these players to give the tournament a go. It was under the general impression, that the vast majority of these players would not make the cut, or even cash (some did however), and it got the entry numbers up as the league bowlers saw it as a great way to meet the best our country has to offer and actually bowl with them.

However, if you wanted to do it purely to youth players, i dont think will work. There are plenty of kids that can mix it with the adults already and can make cuts and cash (we had a JUNIOR over here who i think was 15 at the time, made the matchplay cut in the Joondalup Cup earlier in the year). In QLD, you have guys like Jayden, Jake, Sean etc, who all bowl against the adults when they can, and they can legitimately compete.

Personally, i don't agree with giving junior/youth a cheaper entry fee and competing for the same money because SOME of them, can actually compete. However, having seen it work before, i think offering the "fringe" bowlers, who make up the vast majority of tournament numbers, a discounted fee, you might see the tournament numbers increase......

Just my 2c worth

 

[Dougy]

Just like any other sport It starts with our young ones and as i have said b4 it is declining so i feel we need to start to combat it.. So wat I am asking is how can we start to fix it. And i feel that starting with tourneys is a great start.. I"v been told by many that im wasting my time but i dont feel like i am.. we have a great sport worth fixing..

So why not band together and look at diff ways to fix it in all areas starting with the furture of our sport.

 

[nev25]

This thread is all about positive input and asking questions to get POSITIVE feedback, not running down comments.

You should not have commented at all unless you have some POSITIVE input to add to the questions he is asking.
?

Sorry for asking for some clarification

As I said

With lower entry fee where would the same prize money come from??

As Mick said

I think the only way to cut the entry fee and still allocate the same prize monies is to drop the game rate, most tourneys get a pretty sweet deal on game rates as it is, centres still need to covers their costs.

From experience The more Juniors that enter into adult HANDICAPPED tornys the less adults enter

Why HANDICAPS

My thoughts are more Adult Junior Tournaments
(Two person teams one Adult one Junior a team or2 of each)

 

[ratty133]

Just like any other sport It starts with our young ones and as i have said b4 it is declining so i feel we need to start to combat it.. So wat I am asking is how can we start to fix it. And i feel that starting with tourneys is a great start.. I"v been told by many that im wasting my time but i dont feel like i am.. we have a great sport worth fixing..

So why not band together and look at diff ways to fix it in all areas starting with the furture of our sport.

Thats fine and i agree with what you have said, but can you honestly tell me, that you give a youth player who averages say 220 in league (and yes, there are alot that average that), and you know has a very good chance to cut, that they should be allowed to pay say $70 less entry fee, and still have a chance to win $3000 in an open event? I think if you put that in place, you would lose your other players, because then they would all start saying "well even though they are younger, they still average more than i do, why do they get a cheaper entry?"

Youth/Junior have their own divisions to bowl in (especially in the national events), and they can enter the open events as well. They have plenty of chances to make money and cuts in their own division as well as the open as well.

Im certainly not shooting the idea down, i just think you need to look at the potential consequences this idea COULD have and weigh them up against the potential positives...........

 

[ratty133]

Sorry for asking for some clarification

As I said



As Mick said



From experience The more Juniors that enter into adult HANDICAPPED tornys the less adults enter

Why HANDICAPS

Not true, i know of a very successful tour that runs in QLD that is handicapped, and even though the juniors enter it with handicap, the adults also enter with handicap. And look at the numbers every one of those tour stops gets.........

The Twin Tour is a great breeding ground for the juniors, as EVERYONE is on a level playing field with the negative handicaps in play for the higher average bowlers..........I was so impressed with how that tour works, that we are trying something similar here in WA next year.

 

[Dougy]

Thats fine and i agree with what you have said, but can you honestly tell me, that you give a youth player who averages say 220 in league (and yes, there are alot that average that), and you know has a very good chance to cut, that they should be allowed to pay say $70 less entry fee, and still have a chance to win $3000 in an open event? I think if you put that in place, you would lose your other players, because then they would all start saying "well even though they are younger, they still average more than i do, why do they get a cheaper entry?"



Im certainly not shooting the idea down, i just think you need to look at the potential consequences this idea COULD have and weigh them up against the potential positives...........

I have and thats why i have put it out there for other ppls thought on it.

 

[nev25]

Not true,.

Certainly is down here

 

[Roysa]

If you're good enough, your'e old enough.

 

[Jasonguru]

Matt has hit the nail on the head on this one. I agree with everything you have said.

It would be i think, have decreased potential of entries if a discount was offered to junior/youth entrants.

Sponsorship needs to be accquired, and some media presence to lure in the sponsors, with the ole "what's in it for me", to get fund up and offer a carrot to dangle towards this part of the entries ina field to increase numbers i think.

 

[Daniel Lester]

I can see what you are trying to get across Douggy, and I commend you for it as you will be definitely fighting an uphill battle.

Junior/Youth bowlers have their own division, but the ones who stay with the sport are the ones who compete with the adults, the ones who get coaching. I am absolutely sure there are bowlers out there, not just jnr/yth, that don't/won't enter tournaments because they dont feel as though they have a chance. The only leveller our sport has is handicap, but as soon as you handicap a tourney, many scratch bowlers wont consider bowling, bit of a catch 22. Im not really sure there is a complete answer to this problem, but maybe an individual/ per event type of answer.

There will be some tournaments that you will really want to try and entice jnr/yth into, others maybe not as much.

I have seen a couple of incentives for junior/youth before...
Highest placed junior/youth gets something.
Highest Junior/Youth outside the money gets something.

Its about offering the best to everyone, if you start to show any favour toward any group, someone who is not a part of that category will find something to complain about. Unfortunately thats just how some people are.

 

[jimcross]

Better Prizemoney, + Lower Entry Fee, + Better Return for Centre = Sponsorship.

Sponsorship requires Return to Sponsor ( more sales )

More sales requires PUBLICITY.

Publicity = T/V Coverage

T/V Coverage = Tenpin taken Seriously as Sport.

Tenpin taken as Serious Sport = T/V Coverage

T/V Coverage = Taken Seriously as Sport = Sponsorship.

There--- Wasn't that simple ? Seems to be a common thread there somewhere.

 

[nev25]

Why aren't Manufactures sponsoring more events
After all we are using and buying there equipment
Without us they wouldn't exist