jimcross
Active Member
Didn't notice that.. It is a bit weird, yes??
Why is everyone so depressingly agreeable?
- Thread starter jimcross
- Start date
Didn't notice that.. It is a bit weird, yes??
JIMBOB
Regular
Dear Proprietor,
A sincere thanks to all bowling centre proprietors who took the time to respond to the original email on 17th October regarding the proposed change to membership for 2015. It was difficult to convey the reasons behind the change and the options for your consideration without turning the letter into a thesis so we appreciate it was quite a direct and hard hitting letter that left many of you seeking further information.
We are pleased to report that after many emails and conversations with proprietors the feedback and acceptance for the proposed alternatives was overwhelmingly positive with only 3 centres to date opting out of being registered for 2015.
Following the ABPA AGM on Thursday 6th November and subsequent TBA Board Meeting on 8th November we are pleased to advise that the proposed membership model with some modifications will be adopted in 2015.
The purpose of this letter is to outline the options for 2015, provide significantly more detail on the implementation of the program and seek your selection of your preferred membership alternative prior to 28th November 2014.
All centres will have 4 options for 2015. These options are:
1. Lane levy charged at $550 per lane (GST inclusive)
2. 25c per league game (GST inclusive)
3. Traditional membership collection i.e. collect an agreed membership fee upfront
4. Do not register for 2015
A reminder that there will be no fee issued any longer for lane measuring regardless of the membership option selected.
A brief explanation of each option follows:
Lane Levy
This option is most attractive to centres that have a high number of league bowlers relative to the number of lanes. Centres who opt for this method will receive two invoices for half the total fee, issued on 1st February 2015 and 1st May 2015. Centres will have 30 days to remit the funds
A sincere thanks to all bowling centre proprietors who took the time to respond to the original email on 17th October regarding the proposed change to membership for 2015. It was difficult to convey the reasons behind the change and the options for your consideration without turning the letter into a thesis so we appreciate it was quite a direct and hard hitting letter that left many of you seeking further information.
We are pleased to report that after many emails and conversations with proprietors the feedback and acceptance for the proposed alternatives was overwhelmingly positive with only 3 centres to date opting out of being registered for 2015.
Following the ABPA AGM on Thursday 6th November and subsequent TBA Board Meeting on 8th November we are pleased to advise that the proposed membership model with some modifications will be adopted in 2015.
The purpose of this letter is to outline the options for 2015, provide significantly more detail on the implementation of the program and seek your selection of your preferred membership alternative prior to 28th November 2014.
All centres will have 4 options for 2015. These options are:
1. Lane levy charged at $550 per lane (GST inclusive)
2. 25c per league game (GST inclusive)
3. Traditional membership collection i.e. collect an agreed membership fee upfront
4. Do not register for 2015
A reminder that there will be no fee issued any longer for lane measuring regardless of the membership option selected.
A brief explanation of each option follows:
Lane Levy
This option is most attractive to centres that have a high number of league bowlers relative to the number of lanes. Centres who opt for this method will receive two invoices for half the total fee, issued on 1st February 2015 and 1st May 2015. Centres will have 30 days to remit the funds
Mistagear
www.xgamesbowling.com
Invoiced for services rendered.......... I presume WHAT A BARGAIN. Proprietors must be lining up wanting to buy the TBA product at these prices
David, As a proprietor, if any of these proposals are taken up (except not register with TBA) surely it will force you to increase your prices to both league and social play substantially!
Again I ask why is this necessary? No one seems prepared to dispute the fact that nothing is done (byTBA) for the average league player. We are also told that managers, coaches and most importantly, representative players, in the main, fund themselves.
As for me, it doesn't matter all that much. I have carried an ATBC/TBA card every year for fifty two years. My time in the sport is most likely coming to an end. So I'm afraid are lot of other league and social bowlers if these proposals go ahead.
Again I ask why is this necessary? No one seems prepared to dispute the fact that nothing is done (byTBA) for the average league player. We are also told that managers, coaches and most importantly, representative players, in the main, fund themselves.
As for me, it doesn't matter all that much. I have carried an ATBC/TBA card every year for fifty two years. My time in the sport is most likely coming to an end. So I'm afraid are lot of other league and social bowlers if these proposals go ahead.
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Be interesting to see what TBA do when AMF tell them to stick there $550 per lane or 25c per league game idea. Im sure AMF have got better things to do with $550,000+ a year.
Bowl 3 leagues a week and pay $100 a year as your TBA membership.
The response i got was that someone who bowls 3 leagues a week should support the national body more than someone that bowls 1 league a week.
Bowl 3 leagues a week and pay $100 a year as your TBA membership.
The response i got was that someone who bowls 3 leagues a week should support the national body more than someone that bowls 1 league a week.
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JIMBOB
Regular
Apparently Rob that AMF are on board with this as well as the ABPA. The way it works if you bowl multiple leagues and the centre has chosen the 25c game option you would get a rebate back from the TBA direct to your nominated bank account after you have paid more than $40 in fees. I don't think we will be sanctioned next year as I have to disagree with the 25c surcharge for every one of our customers for every game they bowl league (approx $3000). As we try and keep our league prices as low as we can & why should the TBA get a slice of my future price increase.The $550 per lane or $6600 for our centre is not an option as our 150 league bowlers would not pay the $40 eachto recoup our money. They reckon we will only lose 1% of our league bowlers, the TBA may be in the business of losing members but our customers are valued and losing 1 bowler hurts us.
Mistagear says it right the TBA has not got a product to sell as they don't own bowling centres nor do they own the leagues i run in my centre. For tenpin bowling to get bigger, they need to start creating tournaments with BIGGER prize funds, ones were bowlers can make some money for their time, effort and money the bowlers have put into the game. I would rather gives my lanes to the bowlers for a day or a weekend for free (which i did this year) than pay the extraordinary fees they want to imply on me. Just think if every centre in the country did this just once each year how much better would the tournament and league scene be.
Mistagear says it right the TBA has not got a product to sell as they don't own bowling centres nor do they own the leagues i run in my centre. For tenpin bowling to get bigger, they need to start creating tournaments with BIGGER prize funds, ones were bowlers can make some money for their time, effort and money the bowlers have put into the game. I would rather gives my lanes to the bowlers for a day or a weekend for free (which i did this year) than pay the extraordinary fees they want to imply on me. Just think if every centre in the country did this just once each year how much better would the tournament and league scene be.
The only way to stop this money grab by the TBA is to do what you say Dave and don't register with them. If all proprietors do likewise then maybe they will get the message that rather than help the game, they are stabbing league bowling in the heart.!
We need more league players, not less. More league players equals more TBA dues surely.
Every year it seems we are faced with some new 'scheme' that is intended to take more money out of the pockets of league players. I just don't get how increasing the costs to play the sport is going to encourage more bowlers to join leagues.
Like I said earlier .. Do we really need the TBA anymore?
We need more league players, not less. More league players equals more TBA dues surely.
Every year it seems we are faced with some new 'scheme' that is intended to take more money out of the pockets of league players. I just don't get how increasing the costs to play the sport is going to encourage more bowlers to join leagues.
Like I said earlier .. Do we really need the TBA anymore?
Is this based on the letter sent out to the private centres that said AMF were already on board. Talking to some people in AMF last week, they said AMF still havent made a decision yet and werent happy about the proposal.
Was also told if you had to purchase silver membership from TBA you will be exempt from paying the 25c a game extra then, which will be a total HF for leagues /AMF charging some people 1 rate in league and someone else another rate to bowl, and they want nothing to do with it.
How did they come up with the 1% lose of league bowlers. Our monday night league folds next week after going for nearly 50 years. 8 x 5 person teams this season. 20 people pulling out. Thats 50%
TBA need to be very careful.
Can TBA survive without AMF. ?
AMF will survive without TBA.
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TheDeviantOne
New Member
As someone who bowls 4 times a week i can not condone the 25c per game it's expensive enough where i bowl as it is, the whole point of the TBA doing this is to gain revenue correct? so why don't they work together with centers and come up with a fair pricing scheme to charge TBA members per game of bowling whether it be $3 or $4 a game and others have to pay $6 dollars a game it starts to add up. This in turn would provide an incentive for people to register with the TBA because its saving them 2-3 dollars a game, any thoughts?
RobbieB
Rodentus scientificus
Seems to be some confusion about the proposed levy system. This is my understanding of it.
Centres have three options - the lane levy, or fee of 25c per game on league games, or charge a membership fee as per this year.
Centres choosing the lane levy will most likely recoup this cost by charging their bowlers a sanction fee, which will then be retained by the centre.There is an obvious equity issue here if centres with many league bowlers choose to charge a lower fee than the fee set out by TBA.
In centres choosing the 25c option, bowlers in multiple leagues will pay multiple times. At the end of the year any bowler who has paid more than $40 in fees (presumably across a number of leagues or centres) applies to TBA for a refund. TBA will refund any extra fees paid above $33 for adults (and presumably $20 for juniors).
Centres charging a membership fee have had this set at $33 for adults (no concessions) and $20 or $22 (can't remember ATM) for juniors. The centre does not have to charge this amount, may charge less or more (perhaps if the local association wants more money for local stuff). The centre will be billed this amount for ALL of their league bowlers regardless of whether they have paid a fee or not, so it's up to the centre to enforce 100% sanctioning or lose out on unpaid fees.
Local associations who received money last year will still be funded from TBA according to member numbers.
I have been assured by TBA that AMF are on board with the new system, but are doing due diligence on implementation.
For bowlers who were sanctioned last year, effectively nothing has changed. The most you will pay under the new proposals is $40, and virtually everyone will pay a maximum of $33 provided you supply bank details to TBA for refunds. I'm not going to comment on whether the new system is ideal - obviously there are issues and this year will be a matter of working things out. However, everyone complains TBA does nothing. This will give them the income to do something meaningful for the sport. If, at the end of 2015, proprietors and bowlers believe that they are still not getting a meaningful benefit from affiliation with TBA, they will look at their options.
The new sanction card apparently comes with a range of discounts at various places. This may be enough to offset the cost of membership alone. Also, high game awards etc will be automated, and bowlersin centres running the TBA widget will have access to their scores and frame by frame stats through their own portal. This will be nice.
Lets give it a chance.
P.S. Silver will be $44 on top of the above fees, so buying a silver online will not exempt you from the levy or membership fee AFAIK.
Centres have three options - the lane levy, or fee of 25c per game on league games, or charge a membership fee as per this year.
Centres choosing the lane levy will most likely recoup this cost by charging their bowlers a sanction fee, which will then be retained by the centre.There is an obvious equity issue here if centres with many league bowlers choose to charge a lower fee than the fee set out by TBA.
In centres choosing the 25c option, bowlers in multiple leagues will pay multiple times. At the end of the year any bowler who has paid more than $40 in fees (presumably across a number of leagues or centres) applies to TBA for a refund. TBA will refund any extra fees paid above $33 for adults (and presumably $20 for juniors).
Centres charging a membership fee have had this set at $33 for adults (no concessions) and $20 or $22 (can't remember ATM) for juniors. The centre does not have to charge this amount, may charge less or more (perhaps if the local association wants more money for local stuff). The centre will be billed this amount for ALL of their league bowlers regardless of whether they have paid a fee or not, so it's up to the centre to enforce 100% sanctioning or lose out on unpaid fees.
Local associations who received money last year will still be funded from TBA according to member numbers.
I have been assured by TBA that AMF are on board with the new system, but are doing due diligence on implementation.
For bowlers who were sanctioned last year, effectively nothing has changed. The most you will pay under the new proposals is $40, and virtually everyone will pay a maximum of $33 provided you supply bank details to TBA for refunds. I'm not going to comment on whether the new system is ideal - obviously there are issues and this year will be a matter of working things out. However, everyone complains TBA does nothing. This will give them the income to do something meaningful for the sport. If, at the end of 2015, proprietors and bowlers believe that they are still not getting a meaningful benefit from affiliation with TBA, they will look at their options.
The new sanction card apparently comes with a range of discounts at various places. This may be enough to offset the cost of membership alone. Also, high game awards etc will be automated, and bowlersin centres running the TBA widget will have access to their scores and frame by frame stats through their own portal. This will be nice.
Lets give it a chance.
P.S. Silver will be $44 on top of the above fees, so buying a silver online will not exempt you from the levy or membership fee AFAIK.
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I would be wary of the assurances made that AMF is "on board". You would not find a business in Australia today that would pay out that sort of money ($550 per lane) at the risk of not recovering it. For Rooty Hill alone .. Over $17,000?! The average league bowler, which would have to account for much of the league revenue, would not have a single use for the TBA, it's registration process or "awards" system which is now largely user pays also. From my perspective ... Which may be well off, and if it is the forum will tell me, the TBA has but a few functions, representative teams and ranked events. Those few things that the average league bowler has no clue about while they are enjoying their hot dog, fries and a coke.
RobbieB says everything will be ok as the TBA will refund money into our bank accounts. You have to be kidding ! Who would be stupid enough to give these guys access to our bank accounts. And besides to keep the records of games bowled in each league and tournaments as well as someone who (like me ) plays in two different centres would be a nightmare. The TBA would need to employ a team of accountants to keep track of what's going on.
Pity help the bowling centre owners. Because you can bet your life the load would be forced back onto them and their new team of accountants.
These proposals are just plain unworkable. If the TBA needs more cash just put the membership fees up yet again. We'll all whinge but most would just end up paying it.
Pity help the bowling centre owners. Because you can bet your life the load would be forced back onto them and their new team of accountants.
These proposals are just plain unworkable. If the TBA needs more cash just put the membership fees up yet again. We'll all whinge but most would just end up paying it.
RobbieB
Rodentus scientificus
Yes, because with your BSB and account number they can get in and steal all your money... Really? You think this equates to access to your account?
Tracking the games will be automatic for those paying the 25c game levy, which will probably include all of the AMF centres that will not make a profit from the lane levy at $33 per bowler. Tournament games won't be affected, don't know why you mentioned them. Returning the overpayment will be TBA's problem - if it turns out to be a nightmare, why would you care? It can't be put back on the centres because we have no way of knowing what bowlers have paid elsewhere.
As for putting up the fees, the fact is that many league bowlers don't sanction. This at least spreads the burden to all league bowlers.
The end result in my centre will be that most of my bowlers will save five bucks on their membership compared to this year. If what I have been told goes through, they will have access to their scores online, a membership card that actually has some useful discounts, automatically tracked score awards and the insurance scheme. That is an improvement on what they got this year, and with more money maybe more benefits will flow through over time.
I'm not saying everything will suddenly be peaches and cream - I expect there will be several challenges with the implementation of the proposals. And I'm hardly what you would call a TBA shill. I just think that now when thy are actually trying to do something to shore up membership to free up money to help grow the sport, people should at least have the facts before attacking the proposals.
Mistagear
www.xgamesbowling.com
I dont care how you try to dress up the payment scheme, fact is
There is no product or service being offered to 99% of League bowlers, therefore there is no reason to buy the "fee for nothing membership". Nothing will happen to 99% of League bowlers if they do not pay.
If a Bowling Centre chooses to pay the fee for nothing charge and then passes that on to his league bowlers, he's unnecessarily jeopardizing his own business.
For all parties except TBA, it is nonsensical to be considering this proposal, full stop
There is no product or service being offered to 99% of League bowlers, therefore there is no reason to buy the "fee for nothing membership". Nothing will happen to 99% of League bowlers if they do not pay.
If a Bowling Centre chooses to pay the fee for nothing charge and then passes that on to his league bowlers, he's unnecessarily jeopardizing his own business.
For all parties except TBA, it is nonsensical to be considering this proposal, full stop
John why should we not be talking about it. This affects all league bowlers.
It was kept very quiet by the TBA. Only proprietors were (to my knowledge) informed of the proposals.
It only came out into the open when I reported that the TBA would not accept membership renewals until 1 January 2015. Previously we had been encouraged to renew early.
Surely there can be no other explanation than to try and get the bowl owners on side and then spring it on the rest of us when it was a 'done deal'.
Of course we should talk about it. It affects all league bowlers and the sports future in Austraia.
It was kept very quiet by the TBA. Only proprietors were (to my knowledge) informed of the proposals.
It only came out into the open when I reported that the TBA would not accept membership renewals until 1 January 2015. Previously we had been encouraged to renew early.
Surely there can be no other explanation than to try and get the bowl owners on side and then spring it on the rest of us when it was a 'done deal'.
Of course we should talk about it. It affects all league bowlers and the sports future in Austraia.
Without the TBA the sport is no longer recognised as a sport. We have to have a NSO to represent us. If you hate the TBA that much, then see if you can get enough support to overturn the board.
More money for the TBA will lead to more opportunities for bowlers and coaches alike.
After seeing what some proprietors think is good for the sport, particularly with lane conditions and blocking of lanes, I hold some reservations that they would put any of the Sports interests in front of their own.
I'm not defending the TBA, but they have a role play.
