This is why the National Rankings system needs a make over

[Jase]

Let me start firstly by saying Congratulations to George and Putts on winning the end of year National Adult Rankings for 2007….

But with the Brunswick Cup last year being double ranked, and this year being only Single ranked, with my calculations it has cost Belmo the Rankings and perhaps even Walshy a higher finishing place…

If they are still to have double ranked events, then how can an event that has the second highest participation levels and the greatest first prize total of all of them in the circuit only be a single ranked event…
There needs to be a better way to do this…

Maybe if an event that has been stripped of or isn’t a double ranked event the following year, then maybe they should look at reassigning the points from last year back to single…Maybe there isn’t a right way but I still see this as unfair and once again not a true reflection…

Or maybe just can the single, double and triple rankings points and start all again…

Thoughts????

 

[tonx]

There should be absolutely no reason as to why Brunswick Cup shouldn't get double ranking points. Every elite bowler in the country goes to it. It has the 2nd highest participation rate, and it's held in one of the best centres in the country.

I can't see how an event in Northern Territory that gets bugger all entries, has a small prize fund, and it take -200 to make the cut get double ranked points, but a tournament widely regarded as one of the 4 major events, with the best payout and optimum tournament conditions of the year can't. Also having the last event each calendar year as a double would add to the interest in the ranking outcome every year.

What does a tournament have to do to get double ranking points? Pay TBA double the accreditation fee?

If Brunswick cup can't get double ranking points, is there any reason any other tournament SHOULD get them? Should we just do away with double and triple all together?

 

[Shadows Fall]

Hey Jase I have to say that I totally agree with you, and feel that the current rankings system is ridiculous, hard for a lot of people to follow and just doesn't cut it.

I think that it should work like this;

A list of tournaments considered "Majors" is compiled, which would include SPC, AO, Australian Masters, Brunswick Cup etc (they would have to meet set criteria i.e minumum $2800 1st place, more than 70 bowlers etc).

The majors would be allocated double rankings points.

Every other ranked tournament in the country would then be allocated single points.

The rankings would commence on 1st January each year and the winner would be the person with the most number of accumulated points as at 31st December. They would then be crowned the National Rankings Champion for that year.

At the start of the new year all points would be dropped and everyone starts a fresh. The person who won the year before is still the reigning champion for 12 months until the new champion is crowned.

This is a much simpler method and allows for a much simpler and fairer way to decide then champions and is the way most sports around the world decide their rankings winners.

The current system is a complete farce, over complicating something that doesn't need to be so.

Just my 2c worth

Cheers

Steve Hunt

 

[GeorgeF]

I've said all along that double and triple points are uncalled for and unnecessary. I didn't expect to win the rankings again after my performance at Brunswick, I was rather shocked to find out that it was not double ranked.

The point is the ranking system does need an overhaul, I have acknowledged that for several years. I think the question needs to be asked to TBA directly, why did Brunswick lose it's double rankings and what guidelines are in place that determine if something if double ranked or not.

When you check the TBA website for clarification regarding double points it only states this

3.2 TBA will allocate double points to selected tournaments. Such events will be identified on the TBA Calendar.

For the record though, I am proud to say if you take double and triple points out of the equation I still win over everyone (4 x 1st placings, 1 x 2nd, 2 x 3rd, 1 x 4th). I'm sure Jason Belmonte is not too worried about it, he has countless years ahead of him to win the rankings. To me, it was an important year as I wanted to end it with my best possible results.

Thank you to the people who have already contacted me regarding the rankings, it is appreciated.

 

[GeorgeF]

I should also mention that Jason Belmonte only bowled 6 events. As per the TBA system, a bowlers best 8 events goes towards their end of year tally. This being the case and with the single and double system we currently have in place, Jason only needed 1 more 2nd placing to win.

In hindsight, Jason's decision to bowl Internationally is a much wiser one that trying to win our National rankings. As I mentioned, I'm sure there are several Ranking titles to come for him.

 

[thebowlingchamp210]

Just do it the easy way.

In the junior Wide Bay Circuit. They just do ranking like this: 100 points for 1st, 99 for 2nd, 98 for 3rd.......and so on

 

[Sydpies]

Ranking points should be based on the number of entries each tournament produces.
If Brunswick has 110 male bowlers the winner should get 110 points.
If Darwin attracts 38 male bowlers then the winner should receive 38 points.

Each event would then be judged on its prize money and or Ranking points. There are some bowlers who dont care about ranking points, some just look at the prize fund and the cost of travelling. It is obviously a personal choice for our Elite Bowlers.

But I think if TBA kept it simple then everyone would benefit.

It is sad that our International Bowlers can not receive points for their performance overseas. But that is why they are overseas, they are our best Tenpin Bowlers flying the flag for Australia.

 

[double_d]

maybe events that dont get huge participation should be double points
this way people might think about entering in them

daniel d

 

[Jase]

Yeah I can see that working real well…It helps Arafura every year doesn't it...

 

[June Voukolos]

Jason,
Arafura Classic is a tournament that guarantees prize fund no matter how many entries there are. The sponsors and promoters have been running the tournament for several years now to allow the local bowlers to play in a ranked event without having to spend $1500 in airfares and accommodation for at least one event on the calendar. Even when there are special airfares our cheapest return is about $489 and if in school holidays $1,080. This is to any capital city. Our visitors are made to feel welcome and our local bowlers relish in being able to play against some of the best in the land. Notably at our last Classic not too many of our regular cut makers were missing. Our tournament provides the champion with free entry the following year and because our sport has a higher profile here we can boast print, radio and television highlights for the event. The points have been adjusted depending on our numbers in the past but as our prize fund increases so do our entries. In 2008 we are adding a prize payout for qualifying as well as the final. Like most tournament promoters all we want to do is provide an event for our bowlers and promote the sport.
June Voukolos

 

[Jase]

June,

Think you missed my point here…I wasn’t knocking the Arafura Classic…I have bowled one and loved it, great tournament, loved the markets on the Sunday Night before the flight home at near midnight, the whole trip was a great experience and highly recommend it to anyone who has never been or thinking about doing it again…Still waiting for Ronald to take me fishing as the stories of those that he does take are tremendous…Work permitted me from getting there this year and was only talking to Carl Bottomley through the week about maybe even trying to get there again this year, himself included…

The point of this thread was the fact that the Ranking system needs to be looked at…You surely would have to agree isn’t fair on those who travel year in year out and have to protect rankings from the following year, show up to and event defend their title to find out it isn’t double ranked this year and loose 100 points that they are protecting…My previous thread was using the Arafura as an example that if they think that people chase Rankings points, and the fact that Arafura is a double ranked event hasn’t helped it number wise…

Hope that clears things up for you

 

[FLOWER]

Just a query - are there double ranking points for 2008 for any events?

Flower

 

[Street Racer]

i dont know this... but why do we have double or triple ranking points anyway? can someone tell me why it was brought in?

if it causes so much fuss why doesnt tba just wipe the double and triple points? in a way it would make it fair.... lets say... walshy was leading the rankings and george was 2nd... and walshly couldnt make it to a triple points event? and george wins it.. so walshly maybe even falls down to 3rd and 4th spot? i dont see how that is fair... unless it runs any differently?

i submited my rankings form in this year.. so i dont know much about it....

 

[June Voukolos]

Okay Jason, I understand what you are saying and certainly I agree, many bowlers have suffered and I know ours have. Some of our bowlers could not get a flight out of Darwin to attend NSW Open unless they could afford to go a week earlier and not return until 5 days after so the consequence was valued lost points. The 2007 Melbourne Cup also caused problems. Originally when Andrew Frawley and I set up the Rankings the objective was to have one event in each state and then follow this up with State based rankings to encourage bowlers to support State Championships and more local events.
I think the idea for double ranked events came from some of our top bowlers wanting a "a super tour" of 5 big events. I know that Australian team members have been canvased many times for their input. I am sure that TBA have looked at a number of options and all the comments here will be viewed by them perhaps for the future.
June Voukolos

 

[wchester]

Some of our bowlers could not get a flight out of Darwin to attend NSW Open unless they could afford to go a week earlier and not return until 5 days after so the consequence was valued lost points. The 2007 Melbourne Cup also caused problems.

Weren't the airlines flying the Darwin - Sydney route during that time? You make it sound like NO ONE flew from Darwin to Sydney or Sydney to Darwin for those 12 days. Funny, I didn't see anything about it on the news.

I can understand the problem that the cancellation of the women's division of Melbourne Cup might have caused. A couple of bowlers may have already paid for airline tickets and were then left out of pocket with nothing to bowl. But the cancellation was announced on May 4th....five whole weeks before the start of the Tournament and even before the entry forms had been mailed out and no one had submitted an entry via Totalbowling.com

Also June, please explain to everyone, the problems caused by the TBA in cancelling courses over the past couple of years for the very same reason..not enough participants. There have been a couple of occasions when the date of cancellation was much less than 5 weeks before the course was scheduled to take place. Did the TBA reimburse those who lost money on airline fares in these cases?

 

[June Voukolos]

Wayne,
You really have no idea about air travel for remote athletes, ask anyone from NQ, WA and NT. Yes the airlines flew and they fly twice daily to all capital cities but the planes are very full and sometimes overbooked due to the international airlines being met by interstate people in Darwin to get a cheap seat to Asia. It is cheaper and easier for the NZ bowlers to attend events than those from NT or WA. The bowlers in question could have booked and paid for a business class seat but a seat that was in their price range under $1,000 was not available to travel in Friday morning and back on Sunday night. Most of us here have a huge amount of ff points but cannot use them to book seats unless we book twelve months in advance. Tournaments like the AO are booked like that and in the past SPC but even that tournament has changed dates in the last couple of years so we cannot book until the calendar is out. I do not know about you Wayne but most of the bowlers here do not have a spare $6,000 in November to book airfares for the next 12 months so have to take their chances on the cost of airfares 3 months before an event.
As far as TBA courses go, there was only one of note advertised in Canberra which had been budgeted very low. There was no choice but to cancel it as TBA is not in a position to run courses at a loss. If there were other courses cancelled I think you will find they were run by the individual states and not by TBA. There is no budget for coaching that is why all courses are user pays and a handful of coaches administer the program as volunteers. There is certainly no budget to reimburse airfares and for the Canberra course there were 2 people who would have travelled by air and they had not booked flights.
June Voukolos

 

[Kellie]

Wayne keep it on the topic, if you want answers to all the other questions I am sure you have, either A) send a pm, or B) start a new post.