Can I have some opinion's please!!

[Andrew S.]

Shocking? Disgusting? Outrageous?
What did the opening post hope to achieve?

Perhaps some of you should go back and read Michael Craigs post again. His League at Belconnen actually took the trouble to discuss this and vote on it. And guess what?

No post bowling.

I dont see too many posts on here taking a cheap shot at Belconnen.
Whether we agree or disagree with the Harros decision is irrelevant, most of us dont bowl in that League so its not our business.

I do find it interesting that the topic was raised by the Richlands Tournament Manager.
Its not the first time he's had a go at this Aspley League or Christine Poulitsas.
Of course this would never happen at Richlands..

 

[willey]

As far as I know it does'nt have to be 100% to agree to a change, unless it is in your Constitution. This type of decision making is extroardinary, as it stands, if you have 100 Captains and only 1 decides unfavourably than it can't go through.

willey.

 

[CHIN]

Unfortunate but not totally surprising in this day & age. When you have some people playing for sheep stations in these league's & will do anything to win, this crap happens.
It's a pity the most important thing in some peoples lives is winning 3 games of bowling at any cost. Some people should get a life.
Maybe the only people that should have had a vote are the people from the team they were playing on the night.
Hopefully if that team captain voted no there own blind score kicked there arse all 3 games.

 

[Hammer]

Shocking? Disgusting? Outrageous?
What did the opening post hope to achieve?

I was trying to show everyone, that sometimes circumstances out of your control should be discussed and common sense should apply.

Andrew it did happen last week at Richlands, so I’m guessing it happens in most centres. I was after some peoples thoughts so I can do up a letter to TBA and hopefully some sought of rule change so that we, the bowlers have a choice again, as well as human beings.

So in finish, once again Andrew your quick to stir the pot, when there was no punt intended, I do like the league Haros so I don't know what your were trying to achieve with you remarks, and please stay on topic

 

[tonx]

I really really hope what you are saying in this recent post is true Hammer, and its not simply a direct attack on someone personally.

If I was in the shoes of the people that ran the league, I would have no choice but to go with what the rules state, and what the league voted on. It's times like these, a rock and a hard place would come into play, and unfortunately, I would have to go with the rules. If I am reading it correctly, the constitution says no post-bowling?

If I was in the shoes of the people that have been not allowed to post bowl, I would have to go with Buzzer here, and say bowling would be the absolute last thing on my mind, and I wouldn't care either way what the result of the league that week was. Use blinds for 1 week? Its better than causing a massive divide in the league....

Just my 2 cents

 

[beynon]

i think thats not in the spirit of bowling. shame on them for not letting them post bowl

 

[bobthebowler]

It is the responsibility of every bowler to have an Emergency/Open prebowl for circumstances such as these ESPECIALLY when the Haro's Constitution reads exactly "Pre bowling is allowed in this league, post bowling is not allowed."

Having signed on the dotted line at the beginning of the year, everyone knows this rule and should be planned ahead for circumstances such as these. This is exactly why this rule is in place and people are still failing to recognise it, and not only in this league.

Anyone that bowls in one of Christine's leagues know the rules are set in concrete - no exceptions. Ever. And no-one can say they didn't know that!


Rob

 

[CHIN]

Anyone that bowls in one of Christine's leagues know the rules are set in concrete - no exceptions. Ever. And no-one can say they didn't know that!

Maybe if this Christine is such a stickler for the rules they can get her as Tournament Director for the Mt Gravatt Youth Tournament next year.

Seems as though people only follow the rules up there when it suits them or depends on who the bowlers are.

 

[Beanie]

Having signed on the dotted line at the beginning of the year, everyone knows this rule and should be planned ahead for circumstances such as these.

May I ask you Rob, how can you possibly plan ahead for a death in the family? Even if someone in your family is close to death you don't know exactly when he or she is going to pass away, so you can't plan a prebowl around it.

It is this sort of opinion that has created this situation in the first place. I agree with CHIN when he said that the only people that should have been asked about the postbowl is the opposing team on the night.

David.

 

[Fitzy]

May I ask you Rob, how can you possibly plan ahead for a death in the family? Even if someone in your family is close to death you don't know exactly when he or she is going to pass away, so you can't plan a prebowl around it.
It is this sort of opinion that has created this situation in the first place. I agree with CHIN when he said that the only people that should have been asked about the postbowl is the opposing team on the night.
David.

You can plan for it, it is called an "emergency" prebowl. You don't do an emergency pre bowl for that particular incident, you do one for any type of "emergency" that pops up. With money league's it is not the opposing team that matters (per se) as evey team is in the ladder and results can affect anyone in the league (not just the team you oppose that particular night)

On another note I do not agree personally of disallowing post bowling in any league and that "issue" should be addressed at the next AGM.

Could someone explain the reasoning behind not allowing post bowling?

Is it because it is possible to know what you have to beat??

 

[emmtee83]

if it were me I wouldn't even care asking for a post bowl as there would be much more important things to organise and concentrate your efforts on. At a time like this post bowling would be the last thing on my mind

I agree with this post 100%. Unfortunately rules are part of league bowling. But regardless of whether there was or wasn't allowed a post-bowl (and in about 90% of leagues, it is NOT allowed), I'm sure the bowler had a lot more IMPORTANT things on their mind than scoring 3 or 4 points on their season tally.

If the league allowed blind scoring, couldn't that be an option, and the left over bowlers bowl at least 10 pins over their average to cover for it?

My sincerest condolences to the bowlers involved, it's a terrible feeling to have lost someone close to you.

 

[stormy]

On another note I do not agree personally of disallowing post bowling in any league and that "issue" should be addressed at the next AGM.
Could someone explain the reasoning behind not allowing post bowling?
Is it because it is possible to know what you have to beat??

I will say right from the outset I am a firm believer in both pre and post bowling.
reasons you can prebowl if you intend to be away.
are there any advantages to the other team -yes
why not allow post bowling main reason -they (the one who hasn't bowl will know what they have to bowl ) So what. What is the difference.
The league that I'm in allows both pre and post bowling. Post bowling is allowed right upto the start of league night.
We have this, as there are people who, because of work requirements cannot get there some nights. Some people are on call etc. That is why our league is growing while others are having trouble keeping bowlers.

Colin
We treat people with respect and they in turn give others the same considerations as they would expect if the shoe was on the other foot.

 

[Beanie]

You can plan for it, it is called an "emergency" prebowl. You don't do an emergency pre bowl for that particular incident, you do one for any type of "emergency" that pops up.

Fitzy, I repeat my question. How can you plan an emergency PRE-bowl for the event that a family member dies within hours of the league starting?

I would think that an emergency POST-bowl would be required in this circumstance on compassionate grounds, and judging by the other posts in this thread the vast majority of other bowlers believe this should have been granted by the league.

David.

 

[willey]

This is exactly what your up against with League Rules, some people cannot be Reasoned with.

I will give you an example of a League Rule I came up against and tried to Reason with many of the other Bowlers to change, unfortunately I could'nt, so I did'nt rejoin the League. It goes like this, the League used the 80% of 200 rule for averages, the thing was, we had Amanda Bradley averaging 215 and in her team was Lindsay Coles averaging 207. One night my team bowled against thier team and both Amanda and Lindsay were absent, thier blind scores were higher than my average with my handicap, unfair was'nt it. The season before a bowler carried a 207 average through the season and his team won, of course, as everybody in the League was giving him 7 pins start, many thought it was good luck to them because they bowled so well, I just thought you fools this is not a handicap League, the only one's being handicapped were those shooting below 200 average

willey

 

[CHIN]

Fitzy, I repeat my question. How can you plan an emergency PRE-bowl for the event that a family member dies within hours of the league starting?
I would think that an emergency POST-bowl would be required in this circumstance on compassionate grounds, and judging by the other posts in this thread the vast majority of other bowlers believe this should have been granted by the league.
David.

David,

I had a similar reply organized. When I thought more I realized (I might be wrong). What they probably mean by "EMERGENCY PRE-BOWL" is that fairly early in the season all teams should bowl 3 games outside of normal league times.
These scores, I assume would be kept by the league secretary & used during the season if required in the case of such an EMERGENCY instead of a team fortfeiting that night. I think someone else sort of explained this. If the scores werent needed by the end of the season they were thrown out.


Frank (Willey),

We had a simalar instance years ago where some people in the league wanted everybody's handicap to be worked off the highest average in the league which would change on a weekly basis as the high average changed either up or down. I must say it wasnt passed though. For example:-

If you had Amanda Bradley with a 215 high average 1 week, everybody's would get 80% of 215 that week.
So if you had a 190 average you have 20 handicap giving you 210 with handicap. Evens things up a bit more.

 

[Jordo]

the people who did this are scum talk about kicking someone in the back when they are down. Kick them out of their positions if they are going to be that harsh to other people be that harsh back

 

[Beanie]

Hi Willey,

This is getting a bit off-topic, but the situation you describe arises any time any bowlers have an average higher than a handicap base. This is another issue that needs to be sorted out at the reformation meeting (or league AGM), if the majority of bowlers in the league are happy with the top bowlers averaging higher than the handicap base, then they are happy for this sort of situation to arise.

I remember reading an old FIQ rule book, where the recommendation is made that the handicap base should be at least 10 pins higher than the highest average in the league. But it is only a recommendation, it is up to each individual league to decide what handicap base to choose given the bowlers that are bowling.

CHIN, you make a very good point in limiting the number of pre-bowls that teams can make during a league season, allowing up to but no more than 3 pre-bowls seems very fair if you want to strongly encourage bowling on the night if the league normally bowls on conditions different from the standard house pattern. And in leagues like this it is normal to ban post-bowling in the league constitution.

I hope this very sad episode will open people's eyes to the need to have some compassion and 'bend' the rules of the league if common sense says they should be bent, and in this situation allow a postbowl to be completed before the following week's bowling. And I also hope this situation has also opened people's eyes to the absurdity of rules that require a 100% vote in favour to be changed. A simple majority vote of all league bowlers should be enough - in my opinion anyway.

David.

 

[macka]

Last night at Aspley in the Haro’s league, there was a bowler on his way to bowling with his fiancé, when they received a phone call from a family relative to say that there Grandmother who had been I’ll had just passed away
They turned around and headed to the hospital and contacted there team mate to tell them what had happened…It was way to late to organise a sub at such short notice so there team then requested from Christine Politsis (league Secretary) if under these circumstances that would it be possible for there team member to do a Post Bowl. They were told flat out no, not even under these circumstances. After some deliberation it was then put to the League captains, which would than require 100% vote to be passed. It wasn’t approved so he wasn’t allowed.
In my opinion this was not handled in the best spirit of bowling or a fellow human being. Surely some one dying that’s close to you half an hour before league starts constitutes an emergency. Just my thoughts, what about yours?

The way I read this is that the bowler was to the post bowl unapposed.Thats like a footy game with only 12 on satarday and the 13 man showing up on sunday and playing by himself.If it was both teams on another day,Yes it should have being allowed. But one bowler unapposed come on you all know thats not right.

 

[Beanie]

Fair comment Macka. You have made a very good point, I missed that part of it. I agree with you 100%, the entire match should have been granted a post-bowl.

David.

 

[Feral]

One word: DISGUSTING.

Good job there is no best and fairest award.
Ask yourselves league bowlers: Is this a sporting guesture?
If the rules of the league said "no post bowling", why was it put to a vote? Where is any compassion?

A similar thing happened to me some years ago at Kedron Bowl. My brother passed away interstate. I was away almost a week. I phoned the league president and asked for my son to sub for me as it was in the last few weeks of the league and pre and post bowls weren't allowed during that period. He wasn't allowed to but SOMEONE ELSE could!!!!! I forfeited on principle and haven't bowled at Kedron since and never will while that President is in any way associated with Kedron Bowl, regardless of the good staff there.

That incident made me sick - this one is no different.

Re SHEEP STATIONS - there is a drought on and they're not worth two bob. Someone should get a life.