8pins start for women, did it work?
- Thread starter GeorgeF
- Start date
Docta
Member
LOL Please put away your straw Becka_girl?. If you are stating that the TBA are behind the decision to implement the 8 pin then you are just re enforcing my believe. All I see is a governing body that makes joining them a compulsory for very little in return. We all agree that bowling is in a massive decline across all age groups, so what is our "governing body" doing to fix that. Anyway this is a totally different subject.
becka_girl
Proud Vic Chick
Things aint going to happen with a click of the fingers. Give them time and you will see a change.
The reason our sport is declining is because of people like who you are very negative about decisions being made.
The reason our sport is declining is because of people like who you are very negative about decisions being made.
Mistagear
www.xgamesbowling.com
If the excuse for justifying an unfair competition is, to increase bowler numbers in tournaments,
why not charge the females half price entry ?
Why not....because it would not be fair of right to do so.
Just the same as it is neither fair nor right to allow one gender the advantage of a handicap.
Would male bowlers then be eligible to bowl in a Female Tournament if they subtract 8 pins ? Surely that would add bowler numbers to Tournaments, if that is the claimed reason for doing this.
PS, I have been beaten by female bowlers, fair and square and have absolutely no more problem with that than I do when beaten by another male. I have a problem with unfair rules which give someone an advantage. I believe this to be so in this case.
why not charge the females half price entry ?
Why not....because it would not be fair of right to do so.
Just the same as it is neither fair nor right to allow one gender the advantage of a handicap.
Would male bowlers then be eligible to bowl in a Female Tournament if they subtract 8 pins ? Surely that would add bowler numbers to Tournaments, if that is the claimed reason for doing this.
PS, I have been beaten by female bowlers, fair and square and have absolutely no more problem with that than I do when beaten by another male. I have a problem with unfair rules which give someone an advantage. I believe this to be so in this case.
Roysa
Well-Known Member
I havent competitievly bowled against too many women since i returned to the game a few years back after 8 years away. However the 2 senior females that i have bowled against since my return were some of the most accurate bowlers I have seen since I came back, not to mention their ability to repeat shots and maintain perfect balance throughout their complete approach.
Personally i dont think they need the pins start, but its also not their fault they are getting it.
I agree with many points both for and against, as it doesnt directly affect me im not as 'passionate' as some in here, it is however healthy debate. As Lexi pointed out, might need to run a few years to see the impact either way.
Personally i dont think they need the pins start, but its also not their fault they are getting it.
I agree with many points both for and against, as it doesnt directly affect me im not as 'passionate' as some in here, it is however healthy debate. As Lexi pointed out, might need to run a few years to see the impact either way.
bluey
Member
The decisions are the problem not the negative thoughts for afterall, they are only thoughts. I'm positive that this 8 pins is a bad decision just as I'm positive that Rachuig trials being scheduled against the Mildura Open is a bad decision. (last I heard) I'm positive that the fact we couldn't even get a confirmation on the Nationals venue until after State titles was just incompetence, and poor decision making. I'm positive that good people have tried but in their own words got sick of bashing their head against a brick wall when it comes to governing bodies. Things are meant to be on the mend however this shit has only just happened! At what point are they going to start clicking their fingers and say right, "lets listen to the bowlers"?
Ryan_E
Ryan Edgar
AKA; talk to the TBA... Massive rage thread is quite a laugh.
Don't have a problem with the 8-pin rule as long as it's notified before entries are taken; that way Docta can know not to bowl.
Docta
Member
Thats right Ryan I WONT bowl when there is a 8 pin rule and if you want to see some real rage, come out to the Rig after the boys haven't had a drink for 3 weeks, just like "Black Gold" with out the bleeps LOL . Hey Roysa your right, I do need to take it up with Cara, where would I find here number mate?
bluey
Member
No rage here mate, just talking. If I was angry I'd put in lots of capitals an shit.
Roysa
Well-Known Member
Sarcasm wont get you far with me.
Why dont you get off your butt and ring the TBAL in QLD and ask how you could go about talking to Cara rather than whine on a forum.
Here... ive made it easy for you... http://www.tenpin.org.au/index.php?id=857
Why dont you get off your butt and ring the TBAL in QLD and ask how you could go about talking to Cara rather than whine on a forum.
Here... ive made it easy for you... http://www.tenpin.org.au/index.php?id=857
the mothership
the mothership hears you
you could always wait til the Australian Open if you decide to go, you can talk to her face to face instead of a phone call
Michael Little
Active Member
Carl and Paul,
Guys, what are you? Two years old? I am sorry, I feel I get on well with both of you guys, but some of your posts here are just over the top and highly aggressive, trying to call people out and come to a tournament so you can show them your rage,
.
The TBA made a decision to implement this for a year, at open national tournaments and give it a trial run. As has been stated, it is implemented in just about every other continent and believe me, the female bowlers there are equal to the guys if not better in some cases. I am not saying it is right or wrong either way, but I am happy to give it a chance and see if it works to boost open entries and give the women a crack. I am also happy enough for a female bowler to contribute fully to a prizefund as opposed to the guys generally propping up their prizefund in a dual gender tournament. And I also agree, I think the women support their own tournaments poorly, I have no idea why, probably the crappy payouts because they just don't have the entries.
And yes you might argue that some women can compete with the men, I disagree, at least in this country, as we have a current lack of skilled open female bowlers outside of the few that generally bowl anyway. And that doesn't mean others haven't got the will to improve, but we also have a lack of qualified coaches to help them take the next step. Sorry, you only have to compare and watch some of the European, American or Asian ladies to know what I mean.
The elite side of the sport takes up a very small percentage yet we are probably the biggest whingers. I think Carl made reference above to having to pay for membership, yes it is another topic and has been covered countless times, but wouldn't trying to make progress in unifying the sport and merging associations and trying to mend cracks and yes, everyone paying a membership like they used to less than a decade ago make sense?
Now getting onto reasons for having 8 pins, I disagree generally with a lot of what Rebecca says, but there are instances where women are disadvantaged in tournaments, and it can be due to a multitude of reasons, physically, they are rarely a match and yes a lot of bowling is timing and what not, but on average females can't generate the right roll to make a difference, I hear you say what about Trotts or George, fairly straight shot guys, they still however generate a release which allows the ball to get into a roll. Reference my above point about lack of coaching, not a lack of want. Hook in a box balls only take you so far. Lane patterns make a fair difference too, most of the WTBA patterns require a point starting right, (not so bad for the women), but once they start breaking down, require a move left and inside at some point. It all comes down to angles and generating carry percentages, plain and simple. Not saying this should be the reason, but it is a contributing factor.
Others have made mention of other sports saying we are the only sport where females get an advantage, not quite true, with the most comparable sport, golf changing tee lengths and pin locations for the women (why because most don't hit the distance of the guys), tennis playing less sets etc. But the main difference as to why its worth a trial, is that no other sport has so many contributing factors as to how a certain bowler can produce a score, variables, from lane topography, ball layouts, ball tech, physical ability (every golf or tennis player generally plays the game the same way, or any other sport for that matter), and lane conditions.
A question, I play regular mixed indoor soccer and the rule is if you kick the ball and it hits a female above the waist, it is their penalty, why do you suppose that is? Believe me some of the girls have a tonne of skill too, but do you agree they should get that advantage or not?
Answer me this also, its fine if you want to take a stand and not bowl any tournaments where the 8 pins is in play, but will you also take such a stand where a tournament doesn't use a sport pattern or WTBA pattern or anything that isn't a THS and just uses an easier pattern or THS, which in turns brings lower average bowlers up to your skill level by giving them a greater margin of error and allows them to compete with you, and possibly take your prize money away?
Guys, what are you? Two years old? I am sorry, I feel I get on well with both of you guys, but some of your posts here are just over the top and highly aggressive, trying to call people out and come to a tournament so you can show them your rage,
.The TBA made a decision to implement this for a year, at open national tournaments and give it a trial run. As has been stated, it is implemented in just about every other continent and believe me, the female bowlers there are equal to the guys if not better in some cases. I am not saying it is right or wrong either way, but I am happy to give it a chance and see if it works to boost open entries and give the women a crack. I am also happy enough for a female bowler to contribute fully to a prizefund as opposed to the guys generally propping up their prizefund in a dual gender tournament. And I also agree, I think the women support their own tournaments poorly, I have no idea why, probably the crappy payouts because they just don't have the entries.
And yes you might argue that some women can compete with the men, I disagree, at least in this country, as we have a current lack of skilled open female bowlers outside of the few that generally bowl anyway. And that doesn't mean others haven't got the will to improve, but we also have a lack of qualified coaches to help them take the next step. Sorry, you only have to compare and watch some of the European, American or Asian ladies to know what I mean.
The elite side of the sport takes up a very small percentage yet we are probably the biggest whingers. I think Carl made reference above to having to pay for membership, yes it is another topic and has been covered countless times, but wouldn't trying to make progress in unifying the sport and merging associations and trying to mend cracks and yes, everyone paying a membership like they used to less than a decade ago make sense?
Now getting onto reasons for having 8 pins, I disagree generally with a lot of what Rebecca says, but there are instances where women are disadvantaged in tournaments, and it can be due to a multitude of reasons, physically, they are rarely a match and yes a lot of bowling is timing and what not, but on average females can't generate the right roll to make a difference, I hear you say what about Trotts or George, fairly straight shot guys, they still however generate a release which allows the ball to get into a roll. Reference my above point about lack of coaching, not a lack of want. Hook in a box balls only take you so far. Lane patterns make a fair difference too, most of the WTBA patterns require a point starting right, (not so bad for the women), but once they start breaking down, require a move left and inside at some point. It all comes down to angles and generating carry percentages, plain and simple. Not saying this should be the reason, but it is a contributing factor.
Others have made mention of other sports saying we are the only sport where females get an advantage, not quite true, with the most comparable sport, golf changing tee lengths and pin locations for the women (why because most don't hit the distance of the guys), tennis playing less sets etc. But the main difference as to why its worth a trial, is that no other sport has so many contributing factors as to how a certain bowler can produce a score, variables, from lane topography, ball layouts, ball tech, physical ability (every golf or tennis player generally plays the game the same way, or any other sport for that matter), and lane conditions.
A question, I play regular mixed indoor soccer and the rule is if you kick the ball and it hits a female above the waist, it is their penalty, why do you suppose that is? Believe me some of the girls have a tonne of skill too, but do you agree they should get that advantage or not?
Answer me this also, its fine if you want to take a stand and not bowl any tournaments where the 8 pins is in play, but will you also take such a stand where a tournament doesn't use a sport pattern or WTBA pattern or anything that isn't a THS and just uses an easier pattern or THS, which in turns brings lower average bowlers up to your skill level by giving them a greater margin of error and allows them to compete with you, and possibly take your prize money away?
Roysa
Well-Known Member
Asking me for the CEO's personal phone number isnt sarcasm?
Please.
All i was saying is Bec doesnt deserve some of the comments directed at her for having an opinion.
Its no wonder the sport is dead.
becka_girl
Proud Vic Chick
The originally thread was started to voice if we all thought the eight pins was working so me being a female who is entitled to the eight pins just gave my general opinion, but apparently that was the wrong thing to do because no one agreed anyways.
If you guys don't want to support the eight pin rule then I hope you enjoy our sport going down the drain. I am just a bowler who loves my sport and am trying to help it get back to what it was originally.
If you guys don't want to support the eight pin rule then I hope you enjoy our sport going down the drain. I am just a bowler who loves my sport and am trying to help it get back to what it was originally.
jimcross
Active Member
Try Motor Sport (at any level ) No restrictions or different rules.
jimcross
Active Member
I'm intrigued that in this and other threads, there are those who object to anyone commenting on a forum about an event, or type of event they don't compete in. Using this logic, Greg Norman would be banned from commenting on any aspect of a golf event he didn't play in, Pat Cash in tennis, Cara Honeychurch in You Know What, etc.
I was 70 last Tourny I bowled in - in 2003. ( no, it wasn't a 'Seniors' event ) then I had some medical problems - now fixed - BUT, I just cannot bowl the number of games that makes up any tournament. After 8 games max, I can continue to get the ball to the pins for 2 or 4 more games, but you wouldn't call it bowling. I entered a couple of skins events to find out.
Doesn't mean I can't have a valid opinion.
Be a funny society where you were only allowed to have an opinion, on a subject you were qualified in ( Certificate 3, at a minimum).
Oh, Whoops, sorry, I forgot - that's where we're going, isn't it ??
I was 70 last Tourny I bowled in - in 2003. ( no, it wasn't a 'Seniors' event ) then I had some medical problems - now fixed - BUT, I just cannot bowl the number of games that makes up any tournament. After 8 games max, I can continue to get the ball to the pins for 2 or 4 more games, but you wouldn't call it bowling. I entered a couple of skins events to find out.
Doesn't mean I can't have a valid opinion.
Be a funny society where you were only allowed to have an opinion, on a subject you were qualified in ( Certificate 3, at a minimum).
Oh, Whoops, sorry, I forgot - that's where we're going, isn't it ??
