2014 Nationals

[Brenton_Davy]

I will quote you that next week at the briefing Brenton that they are all a lost cause....

IN relation to learning how to play tough patterns, sadly yes the majority are because they don't want to learn how. Surely you can't argue that

 

[strop]

But there seniors Brenton. They are over that crap from years ago. There in it for the fun...most of them . But most people just can't understand that...

 

[Brenton_Davy]

But there seniors Brenton. They are over that crap from years ago. There in it for the fun...most of them . But most people just can't understand that...

WE never had "that crap". We bowled on ditches for almost as long as I can remember. As I said, ....

Ahh screw it! I'm never going to convince you or the vast majority of seniors. I don't know why I bother trying.

 

[strop]

Yes but we had Manhattan Rubber and those other bowling balls on lacquer ...they were fun Times Brenton.

 

[Brenton_Davy]

Yes but we had Manhattan Rubber and those other bowling balls on lacquer ...they were fun Times Brenton.

They were. That much we can agree on

 

[RobbieB]

Manhatten Rubber? Ahhh, yes, 2004, fond memories....

 

[Michael Little]

Manhatten Rubber? Ahhh, yes, 2004, fond memories....

I trump you with an old Earl Anthony Magnum 5, saw it sitting in Dad's shed when I was back up at Kegel.

 

[Michael Little]

Bur that would mean the majority of bowlers actually practising, getting their equipment set up properly and just generally thinking about the game. I think it's too late for most of the adults, the focus has to be on the juniors and youth who are more conditioned to bowling on tougher patterns. The seniors especially are a lost cause.

You are right Brenton, I was alluding more to the youth etc, there are adults of course who want to learn more, then there are adults that know what the state of play is and then there are adults who profess to want to bowl on tough patterns but give up after a short while because as you say, they don't want to put the hard work in.

 

[Graeme Rose]

Michael's point regarding the tech committee is completely wrong. All centres hosting ranked events were asked to choose one of the 12 WTBA patterns. They were also asked to test patterns before they made their choice to allow a reasonable match up between pattern, surface, oil etc.
The tech committee just accepted the choices made. We do not have the time or resources to travel to every centre and supervise the testing process. In most cases the centres had 9 months to test patterns and make their choice. Draw your own conclusions from the results of this process. All the tech committee did was restrict the choices to one of the 12 WTBA patterns.

Patterns become easier over time not because the pattern 'beds in' to the lane surface, but because the lanes become cleaner as they are washed & oiled several times a day over the course of a tournament. The lane machine is usually serviced and buff brushes, squeegee blades etc are usually replaced just before the tournament starts (and, lets face it, some lane machines don't get serviced at all). In a lot of circumstances these components are well past their 'use by' date. So the lanes aren't in very good shape prior to the start of the event. The build up of dirt, cleaner residue etc that is embedded in the lane surface can take a week to be completely removed. I have lost count of the number of times that I have advised centres to wash & oil their lanes as often as possible in the lead-up to a tournament.

 

[Michael Little]

I wonder why just about every centre manager I have spoken to in the last few years of tournaments has said the identical same thing, we just get given a pattern to select from 2-3, not 12 and have not much choice in what we choose. Seems a recurring theme.

If as you say bowling centres have over 9 months to test patterns, then they are doing a very poor job in providing an optimal pattern for their event because so many do not match the surface or provide a proper playing field for competitors. Someone isn't telling the truth, either the centre managers are lazy or the TBA is inept in this area or both.

I would also respectfully disagree that patterns play better in the later stages of a weekend due to numerous wash and oils, technically they should, but they haven't been. In my personal experience, tournaments have played worse the longer they have gone on. Over the course of the nationals, the pattern tends to open up quite a fair bit. Playing a different pattern for one and a half days will be a nightmare even on a clean lane surface after the easy pattern has been down for the past three weeks.

 

[Graeme Rose]

The original process was that a centre had to choose 3 out of the 12 patterns, after testing, and list the patterns in order of preference. Patterns were then allocated based on those preferences. We also tried to get a even mix of short, medium and long patterns throughout the year.

If the prep work prior to a tournament has been done properly and the same procedure is used during each wash & oil then the main factor in determining how a pattern plays over time is the ball & line choices of your fellow competitors.

 

[Michael Little]

The original process was that a centre had to choose 3 out of the 12 patterns, after testing, and list the patterns in order of preference. Patterns were then allocated based on those preferences. We also tried to get a even mix of short, medium and long patterns throughout the year.

If the prep work prior to a tournament has been done properly and the same procedure is used during each wash & oil then the main factor in determining how a pattern plays over time is the ball & line choices of your fellow competitors.

I have also heard that many centres don't get their preference either out of the 3. I have rarely seen a pattern match to a centre, nor play the way it roughly should.

But you are right, patterns only break down as the bowlers break them down. Which is generally wrong.

 

[Greg Robertson]

what is the point of tech committee if they have no input. A choice of the 12 wtba patterns is a silly way to go. Centre's are going to select the same 2 or 3 patterns every time. As far as the pattern playing easier or harder as the week goes on I agree and disagree. It depends on what you want from the pattern. The shape of the pattern does NOT change unless it has some help. The only difference is in the backend reaction. For the most part the lanes play straighter the more they are washed.

 

[Graeme Rose]

I don't think that we will see many patterns 'matching up' as we are juggling too many variables. Not least the panel degradation outside of 10 board that is prevalent at most centres. As long as 10:1 patterns are the norm this will only get worse. The lower the ratio of the pattern that you try and lay on these lanes the more unpredictable the result. Without access to a lane mapper I can only guess at topography issues by watching ball reaction. Maybe my off the wall idea of just having one pattern for all ranked events held in one year isn't so wild. The differences between centres should give us enough variety!

Before the advent of synthetic lanes and reactive balls 99% of patterns were 3:1 or less. Oil volume was much less than it is now. Do we need to reduce oil volume to force players to choose less aggressive equipment? The USBC are trying this at some youth events this year.

 

[Brenton_Davy]

what is the point of tech committee if they have no input. A choice of the 12 wtba patterns is a silly way to go. Centre's are going to select the same 2 or 3 patterns every time. As far as the pattern playing easier or harder as the week goes on I agree and disagree. It depends on what you want from the pattern. The shape of the pattern does NOT change unless it has some help. The only difference is in the backend reaction. For the most part the lanes play straighter the more they are washed.

Pardon?

In my experience (over 35 years of tournament bowling) the lanes have, in 98% of cases, hooked earlier and earlier as the tournaments have progressed. You must bowl in some very strange houses if the lanes change as you have described.

 

[Brenton_Davy]

I don't think that we will see many patterns 'matching up' as we are juggling too many variables. Not least the panel degradation outside of 10 board that is prevalent at most centres. As long as 10:1 patterns are the norm this will only get worse. The lower the ratio of the pattern that you try and lay on these lanes the more unpredictable the result. Without access to a lane mapper I can only guess at topography issues by watching ball reaction. Maybe my off the wall idea of just having one pattern for all ranked events held in one year isn't so wild. The differences between centres should give us enough variety!

Before the advent of synthetic lanes and reactive balls 99% of patterns were 3:1 or less. Oil volume was much less than it is now. Do we need to reduce oil volume to force players to choose less aggressive equipment? The USBC are trying this at some youth events this year.

Wow, that's a back to the future moment by the USBC. THey tried a similar thing in the 80's with the "System of Bowling" and we all know how THAT turned out.

 

[Greg Robertson]

As I said for the most part. It depends on the area of the lane you play. I have been involved with tournament lane conditions since 1998 and I have seen many changes. The current breed of lane cleaners used tend to tighten up. Gus Falgien and I discussed this at length one night over far too many crown lagers. If the lanes are clean to begin with you will not see any opening up. Back in the pre kegel days we would see large changes in how the pattern plays as the lanes clean up. A correctly set up kegel can make a dirty lane into a clean lane. Once the lane is clean the only variable is the residue of cleaner that builds up. The more residue of Defence C for example the more direct the lanes play. Not all cleaners act this way.

 

[Greg Robertson]

Greame I don't think that will work well. Make a pattern to suit each event. I would take the choice away from the centres. Worked well when I did that quite a few years back.

 

[Schmicko]

Just out of curiosity, was the Qamf World Cup pattern used this weekend at AO a renamed wtba pattern?

 

[Graeme Rose]

Morning all,

No, Schmicko. The QAMF World Cup pattern is not a renamed WTBA pattern.

Hi Greg! One pattern for all events would work as well or better than the 'pick 1 of 12'. It wasn't a serious suggestion, it was meant to counter the system (or, lack of) that we have now. We had also had several Crownies as well. You and I together would have plenty of examples of good advice being ignored.

The Asian Seniors pattern was developed for the event, it took 6 weeks and 4 testing sessions. If ALL centres would cooperate like Rooty Hill (and Caboolture) then we wouldn't have a problem. We could develop individual patterns for each event.