2 handed vs. 1 handed?

[mattr]

haha i agree with you belmo, but have a read of what i said

I CAN GET MORE ON IT BOWLING THE WAY I BOWL NOW, i have tried 2 hands and it isnt pretty haha i dont know how u guys do it

And as far as OSKU taking both our money i would have to disagree, you would have to be on it more than him

I always enjoy bowling with you so when the new bowl opens maybe we should get u, frawls jez and who ever else wants to come and play from some cash

But back to subject, i do agree a 2 hander can get more on it anytime of the day or night. Me im around 550 which is enough also

 

[Troyza]

At the end of the day, most of the same principles apply to two handed bowling as one handed. People keep trying to overcomplicate it. Bowling is about knocking down ten pins in any way you can within the rules of the game. Those that attack or critisize people for bowling in a different way need to start focussing on their own games I think.

If by attack & criticism you are referring to what I originally posted, it's not an attack & hardly criticism. Forums are for opinions, & peoples opinions aren't always going to match up.
Two handed may be the future of the sport, I'm not denying that & I'm definitely not taking away from two handed bowlers. It still takes a lot of muscle-use to impart 500+ rpm on a ball, & frankly I can't see a 50/60 year old bowling two handed with the same aura as a youth or young adult.

 

[BELMO]

If by attack & criticism you are referring to what I originally posted, it's not an attack & hardly criticism. Forums are for opinions, & peoples opinions aren't always going to match up.
Two handed may be the future of the sport, I'm not denying that & I'm definitely not taking away from two handed bowlers. It still takes a lot of muscle-use to impart 500+ rpm on a ball, & frankly I can't see a 50/60 year old bowling two handed with the same aura as a youth or young adult.

How many 50/60 year olds do you see throw the ball the way they did in their younger days with 1 hand???

Matty:

Action bowling is something missing from australian bowling. Bowling for a couple hundred is incredible.
I was lucky enough to be apart of some action bowling in NEW YORK.

We were playing for $3800 US a game, but ill be happy to take a couple hundred off you

Belmo

Ps- After i beat Rudy Revs 5-2, i didnt get too many takers the following week

 

[wchester]

Jason...

Glad to see you got to experience the action scene at its "birthplace," New York!

For many years, touring players have been bowling at Van Nest and other centres in New York against some the best and ballsiest action players on the East Coast. When I was on Tour there was also a lot of action in Texas, but most of it was being bet by the spectators, not the bowlers themselves.

What I'd like to know is how much of that $3,800 per game wager was being covered out of your pocket.

 

[Nebster]

Being some one who is youthful (17) and can comfortably bowl both 1 handed and 2 handed i would like to make a few points here, none as an attack to anyone.
Firstly, I've been bowling 1 handed longer then 2 handed and even though i DO enjoy to bowl 2 handed more than 1 handed, my results often show that i bowl MUCH better 1 handed. That's just me, it the way i have been trained. There are always going to be bowlers that are better 2 handed then 1. Look at Belmo for 1. He could wipe me over the floor then throw me out with the trash if we both went against each other 2 handed. If we both went 1 handed, i mite have a smaller chance of winning.

There's no denying that 2 handed gets a lot more revs then 1 handed. When it comes to really oily lanes, i will more often then not make the switch to 2 hands simply because i can get the ball to move to the pocket. At a rough estimate, i could get around the high 500's bowling 2 handed, compared to around somewhere near 250 with 1 hand. Thats more then double my normal rev rate, which has given me a jump on people before the lanes dry a bit.

The next thing i would like to point out is to do with injuries. I have tore my thumb up more times then i can care to count. Obviously this would be no problem with a 2 handed bowler cause they don't have a thumb, Belmo was 1 up on the US open field there. Personally though, i shredded my thumb on the weekend bowling in the Port youth tournament in the 1st game, i placed fake skin on, about 2 shots later blood was dripping out of it and the only way we could seal it up was by using the spray on bandage. I still had another 9 games to go, and hadn't qualified for the finals the next day. I was by one of the guy's running the tournament, that if i wanted to continue bowling (and when they saw my thumb, they didn't recommend it), i had 2 bowl 2 handed. Thankfully, i was able to change my styles relatively quickly and was able to make the final...although i'd rather not talk about the results the next day. This doesn't mean that by bowling 2 handed, you'd never injure yourself. I HAVE injured myself while bowling two handed. At the end of that saturday, my lower back was on par pain wise to my thumb. How??? Because of my lanky stature. Belmo is relatively short, right??? Therefore he does not have to bend over as much as i would to get a good release on the ball.I have to continually bend over a lot to get behind the ball and have a nice smooth release cause i'm so tall, which after a while starts to take it's toll.Morale of the story here is, unless your really flexible, if you are tall don't try bowling 2 handed, it's too hard on your body.

There is no doubt that 2 handed will become a large force to fight with in the future, but i can see later on down the track that a bowlers style will soon become part of their stature. The tall guys will stay 1 handed and the shorties will be 2 handed. That's just how i feel.

 

[Troyza]

How many 50/60 year olds do you see throw the ball the way they did in their younger days with 1 hand???

True true. My point was just that in my opinion I can't picture a 50/60 year old bowling with 2 hands. Old people have hard enough time lifting 1 handed, let alone getting down into their shot as much as a 2 hander needs to without their style becoming detrimental to their game.

& Uhh, Ben. Last time I remember seeing, Belmo is still low in his shot, unless I am mistaken?

 

[wchester]

True true. My point was just that in my opinion I can't picture a 50/60 year old bowling with 2 hands. Old people .....

Old people???
50/60 is not old...but your thinking is.

 

[Troyza]

Old people???
50/60 is not old...but your thinking is.

So is your method of trolling an online bowling community. Opinions are opinions, leave them at that. I'm not forcing my views on any body, & if you people can't accept that other people have opinions that are different, then whats the point of having an open forum?

 

[wchester]

Sorry Ashley (Troyza), but my posts are neither off-topic or irrelevant, nor do I try and antagonize or insult anyone on this forum. I was simply refuting your statement that bowlers 50/60 years old have a hard time lifting one handed. I believe that at 56 yrs of age, I'm still capable of competing with bowlers much younger than I.

BTW...The Rolling Stones are nearing their 50th year in the ROCK music industry. I hardly think anyone would describe them as being "OLD"

 

[JWhitty]

Possibly the reason more females don't take up this style is to do with physique. Two areas in particular being hips and breasts - I see some women try to bowl around their hips, which might be a bit tricky when bringing the other hand across which reduces your abductive angle on the gripping hand. Additionally, there's reaching around the chest - a lot of two handers keep their elbows fairly narrow in their setup, something which would be hard to do, and I imagine uncomfortable, with the obstructions

Obviously either of these factors is more of a problem for some than others. Further, if a young girl learned to bowl before such problems arose, the complicated relearning involved might be difficult... ?

I'm far from an expert on female physiology, but I'm told repeatedly that 'the damned boobs get in the way of everything'. You should see my girlfriend trying to play golf

I think more study on the physical aspects are in order

 

[JWhitty]

I was simply refuting your statement that bowlers 50/60 years old have a hard time lifting one handed. I believe that at 56 yrs of age, I'm still capable of competing with bowlers much younger than I.
BTW...The Rolling Stones are nearing their 50th year in the ROCK music industry. I hardly think anyone would describe them as being "OLD"

I have to agree with Ashely as a generalisation there, I've not seen many 50+ bowlers with a great deal of lift. I don't doubt it can happen, but the proportion seems to be lower. Also, you may well be capable of competing with younger bowlers (so am I!), I don't see that lift has that much to do with it there. Whilst more revolutions = better carry, the difference is quite minor I would think between say 150 and 250.

But what really prompted me to reply was your Rolling Stones reference, I'm sorry mate but they ARE OLD. Even if they are still performing, they are old.

 

[XXxxJeSsxxXX]

i'm only 16 and have only been bowling for 7 or 8 years but that whole time whenever belmo was bowling at home (orange) i would be down there watching him bowl just wondering how he could bowl 2 handed...i tried and kinda sucked at it still can't do it but anyway, it doesn't realy matter if a person bowls one handed or two if they feel comfortable bowling that way and bowl the best they can then thats great. i don't realy think that two handed bowling is better than one but i don't think one handed bowling it better than two.
If a girl wanted to bowl with two hands they could do it body shape has an affect on bowling styles but thats like saying a large person couldn't have a high backswing because of their weight, so if a girl realy wanted to bowl two handed i think they would be able to bowl pretty good if they put in the effort. I personaly just bowl one handed and it works for me my average has gone up about 10 pins in the last 6 months which i'm pretty happy with, just because someone bowls two handed doesn't mean that they will always win everything yeah ok belmo wins a fair few things or goes pretty darn well in them but there are plenty of one handed bowlers who do aswell, if you get more revs on your ball than someone else doesn't mean your going to be a better bowler its about how determined you are and how much and how hard you train.
so after all my rambling on what i'm trying to say is one handed bowlers can be just as good as two handed bowlers. but yeah thats just my opinion...

 

[wchester]

I believe that at 56 yrs of age, I'm still capable of competing with bowlers much younger than I

OOPS....I take back everything I said about being old. I'm only 55 NOT 56 lol
Darned Alzeimers! :wheelchair:

 

[BELMO]

I just thought of something:

There are how many 1 handed bowlers in the world?? How many 1 handed bowlers win as a percentage??
Now how many 2 handed bowlers in the world??? How many 2 handed bowlers win??
There are 4 two handed bowlers in the world that bowl at the highest level, 2 of them win consistanly and the other 2 win every now and then.

It is just a coincidence that the 4 two handed bowlers win more times (based on the %'s).

How many 2 handed bowlers would win if there were 1000 of us????

You may be able to be me or Osku.....but could you beat 100 of us in 1 event???
Let me just say that i think there may be a few less 1 handed victories.

Interesting huh?

Belmo

 

[mattr]

How many 50/60 year olds do you see throw the ball the way they did in their younger days with 1 hand???
Matty:
Action bowling is something missing from australian bowling. Bowling for a couple hundred is incredible.
I was lucky enough to be apart of some action bowling in NEW YORK.
We were playing for $3800 US a game, but ill be happy to take a couple hundred off you
Belmo
Ps- After i beat Rudy Revs 5-2, i didnt get too many takers the following week

hahaah Rudy aha bet he was impressed

but im up for it baby hehehe, i think we could get something going when Strike City Opens and get some excitement into bowling again. Hell i tried my best in melbourne to get the crowd going.

I think my rev rate is high enough for 1 handed bowling. But i have to agree the 2 handed release is taking hold, another reason why bowling is great, many ways of thorwing the ball and competing

date and time Jas and im there

 

[emmtee83]

A general misconception with 2 handed bowling is that the back muscles predominantly are used, and that back injury is always going to be an issue.

Excluding Belmo and Osku, the back muscles are hardly used, if at all, exactly the same as a 1 handed bowler. The ball isn't delivered using your back to get power on the ball, the back doesn't help hold the ball in your hands.

If you watch Belmo's shot closely, he gets his shoulders square with the foul line and lets go of the ball past his feet. This particular part of the shot is going to place strain on the back, but because he has been doing it for so long, his back muscles are that strong and now he's accustomed to it. At the completion of his shot, you'll notice his back is just about at right angles with his legs...back is now parallel with the lane....to a normal person, this would kill the back. Again, Belmo is an exception.

For people who think a conversion is beyond them, it's not. Technique is the key. If you look at a 2 handed ball delivered from side on, you will notice that the ball never travels any more than half an arm's distance from the bowler. Picture a blip on a heart monitor in a hospital. The ball starts on the flatline, goes up a little on pushaway, comes down in the swing then gets delivered onto the lane. The actual distance the ball travels is very minimal, due to the bowler walking past the ball upon swing, and the bowler getting lower to the lane as he approaches the foul line. The speed and revs come from the ball carrying it's momentum through the swing, NOT FORCING THE BALL THROUGH, hitting the ball at the perfect time, just like a 1 handed bowler. And this could take years to master, just like the 1 handed bowler's release.

Like Belmo said (and correct me if I'm wrong with anything I've mentioned here mate!!), the two styles still require the fundamentals to be consistent. Balance, timing, position, reading breakdown of the lanes.

 

[Troyza]

Alright Wayne. You can't deny compared to a 20 year old, a 50 or 60 year old is 'older' or considered 'old'. To you, no, but to me, yes. Context is important. My own fault for using such a tender age for an example, perhaps I should have said 70 or 80 years old. Though obviously these people aren't going to have as much strength as you or me.

Can a 50 year old lift 100 kg weights as efficiently as a 20 year old with less risk of injury or equal ability to recover? Probably not. My point is not weight lifting, my original point is that ability deteriorates with age, even if a bad example was used, & misconceptions were created.

& lol at the 55/56 mix up. Awful time to do it huh?

 

[exPatBowler]

Alright Wayne. You can't deny compared to a 20 year old, a 50 or 60 year old is 'older' or considered 'old'. To you, no, but to me, yes. Context is important. My own fault for using such a tender age for an example, perhaps I should have said 70 or 80 years old. Though obviously these people aren't going to have as much strength as you or me.

Can a 50 year old lift 100 kg weights as efficiently as a 20 year old with less risk of injury or equal ability to recover? Probably not. My point is not weight lifting, my original point is that ability deteriorates with age, even if a bad example was used, & misconceptions were created.

& lol at the 55/56 mix up. Awful time to do it huh?

Not to turn this into a discussion on aging, but I have to comment that there's a lot one can do so that deterioration of ability is not inevitable with age. Lots of us work out with discipline to maintain much of their lifestyle. In fact I know some guys that are actually in better shape and able to do more athletically now than they could in their 30s. I regularly out-ski guys in their 30s, despite several knee and shoulder surgeries, and I ski with a guy in his late 70s who can still go 8 hours a day in the bumps with perfect style and leave just about anyone of any age looking like a beginner.

That aside, this 58 years OLD guy, who'll try anything that might improve his bowling average, will give the 2 handed style a shot and report back on the results (I'll make sure my wife is with me though, just in case I need her to drive me home!).

 

[Nebster]

How many 2 handed bowlers would win if there were 1000 of us????
You may be able to be me or Osku.....but could you beat 100 of us in 1 event???
Let me just say that i think there may be a few less 1 handed victories.

Would you guys still be able to win on dry lanes??? I think that'd be the only advantage one handed bowlers would have on you.

 

[mickyd213]

ability deteriorates with age

I don't think that your ability deteriorates with age... There are still a lot of 50 year olds who are more than capable of mixing it with the young guys... You might see a change in their speed or ball reaction but that is where their ability comes into it and they can adjust their shot to suit.

As for two handed bowling... For those that do it... good on ya. I must admit that i, while explaining to my kids about bowling, i didn't even consider the 2 handed approach. But as strange as it seems, my youngest 2 kids both use 2 hands... purely coz of their age. 10 yrs ago, given the same situation i would have been use one hand blah, blah, blah. But now i have a greater appreciation and just say to all my kids now... bowl the way you want.

Hey Jason... My daughter is 6 so maybe there is hope of a 2 handed female bowler...