Tournaments. What do bowlers really want? Can TBA do more?

[Deano]

As one or the organisers for the Sunraysia Tenpin Cup on May 18 & 19 what do bowlers really want out of a tournament? I've read on other Threads about 8pin starts and this and that. Who can actually help us put bowling on the map and make bowling what it should be in Australia? Honestly with a bit of hard work its not out of reach of any centre to put on a tournament with $5,000 first place. It's a matter of getting out there and selling your product. At the end of the day money talks all languages. Myself i think the TBA could do more but that is my opinion. Marketing & Promotion of the sport would cost alot of money but if there is a will there is a way. Pretty sure most bowlers dont mind giving some time out of their own lives to promote the sport in some way just to get it out there. We have had some issues with Vic Tenpins & TBA for this years tournament with the date clashing with Rachuig Trials. When we asked for help there was nothing they could do but said they would like to help next year. End of the day we aren't asking for help next year we need it this year. If numbers are down there may be no next year. Sunraysia Cup is the second biggest tournament in Australia for prizemoney. All we are trying to do is make it a bowlers tournament for bowlers.

Personally it shits me that everyone has ideas on this that and the other but wont grab the bull by the horns and show some initiative. Like in any workplace if we all do our little bit alot can happen.

So at the end of the day what do bowlers really want out of a tournament?

 

[Docta]

Deano you are on the right track. We need more tourneys like yours but unfortunately as usual the TBA don't want to help. They are only interested in things they control instead of helping the sport grow. It seems like to me that the Rachuig trials are on the same date as your tourney just out of spite. It's really sad the head our governing body doesn't not even have the respect to return your calls. This governing body is more like a dictatorship than a democracy. I will do my best to get as many guys to come and support your tourney as possible. I think this sort of bias control must come to an end. There seems to be no accountability.

 

[bluey]

It's grass roots stuff, the numbers are down on juniors and have been for years. The "Rising Stars" thing that Glenn Rowland is getting going is great but we won't see the flow on effect into adult tournies for years. I like the old format the AO use to run, 8 games each day for 16 games Qualy, top 24 with 23 games head to head. I did a few of these and loved the long format. (you'd need a reoil these days) In the end I think entry fees are the biggest issue, once it gets over $250 I shy away irrelevent of the pay out. There are way more people that are going to make nothing in an event, normally 2/3rds of the field than those that will cash. You have to appeal to the masses to boost your numbers, those that normally cash will come regardless, those that don't will not wish to spend $325 on 16 games to see the usual suspects walk away with $5000. The guys that come for 5k will most likely still come for 3k. I'd like to see some calculations done on 3k first place and pour money back to reduce entry fees to boost the 2/3rds that make it all worthwhile. You guys are appealing to the top end bowlers and I get that, just don't compain when the fringe bowlers start doing the sums and work out the overall cost they bare just to step up for the first frame isn't worth it.

 

[Deano]

I see where you are coming from Bluey. Difference between our tournament and others is we don't have a Kegel or a name for our pattern. Ask anyone that come up here how hard they had to work to knock pins over. There were a fair few fringe players that cut and made good money. The final was a fringe player vs top end player and ask George it wasn't a walk in the park. Also we are 1 in 2 payout which dont know how many are that these days. As I said I'm just wanting to know what bowlers are looking for.

 

[ratty133]

Deano, good thread. IMHO, you don't need $5000+ top place prizefunds to attract more numbers. I honestly believe, if you can find the money to pay down deep enough (and well enough) in a prizefund, more people will come. For example, Mentone Cup is paying $1000 for 4th place. and for a $220 entry fee, that is sensational. If you can find a way to get $1000 paying down to 10th place, OMG. i know bowlers here in the west weigh up the options for tournaments, in what it will cost amd what they potentially can earn back (covering our trip is usually enough, or at least most of it). If you pay more money deeper in the field, your numbers will increase. I personally don't believe handicap is the answer (numbers in Mentone cup prove that you dont need handicap for females to shoe up).

If you base a tournament on 75 entries, pay to 25th, with 25th getting no worse than entry back. if you cut to top 16, 16th gets double entry back or more, lets say $600. make 10th place $1000, and go up in $200-$300 increments per place, you only need $3000, maybe $3500 as your first place MAX. this will give other players a fresh look on the idea saying "hmmmm, well i might not win, but looking at the field, i am capable of making the top 10, so i can can cover my trip and get a little extra spending money"

We all know we aren't going to make money by bowling in Australia, but if the option is there for more people to recoup the cost of their trip, more people will show up.

 

[becka_girl]

I agree with Paul when the prize fund creeps up over the $250 mark, that's when I question if I actually want to bowl the event or not.

Also agree with Matt.
An event I love going to is Wodonga Skins. 10 games for $260 and each skin is worth $1000. I think to myself if I can just bowl one good game and win a skin then my whole trip is covered.

 

[krusty]

How many of the bowlers entered at Sunraysia are actually qualifying for Rachuig?

 

[Docta]

I know of at least 2 that have pulled out because of Rachuig

 

[John_Velo]

G'Day,

This thread is a lot more pleasant to read and less argumentative. Well done.

For me personally the thing that would be more attractive would be more one day events. Two day event are costly to get to, costly to get time off work for. I choose my events very carefully due to cost.

I would like to see each state align with a good Sport Series of say 10 events. Lets take NSW as an example, Cow has come up with a good two centre approach for six rounds. What if we added a few more rounds in the independent centres, have the points carry through for a grand state champion. Then a national sports event could be bowled in for the top three from each state in a grand final style event.

Events could be 10 games plus top three play off, would cost about $120 and cash the top 1/3 of the field. Have a prize pool carry over from each event for the grand champion.

No accommodation costs for most. Still run some of the events in there so that the regional centres don't miss out like Orange and Bathurst.

It would be nice the see a proper season style series, plenty of options for every one. Payouts are not huge but every body has a good chance of getting there entry fee back.

Then build on it from there.

thanks for reading.

 

[CHIN]

This thread is a lot more pleasant to read and less argumentative. Well done.

Jeez John give it a chance. Threads only been going 8 hours.

Give a bit more time and the usual antagonists will rear there ugly heads and turn this thread into a total sh!tfest as well.

 

[Docta]

Antagonists, did i hear someone call my name LOL, just kidding, I think John is onto a winner there. A state and National sports series would be great.

 

[Brenton_Davy]

Dean I have been bowling tournaments in Australia (and overseas) for over 30 years. I have seen tournaments with over 130 entries (Melbourne Cups in their heyday) all the way down to events with barely enough bowlers to make a cut. In most cases these days, it's not the tournament format or the payout that causes bowlers to not turn up to events, but a litany of other internal and external factors that work against tournament promoters.

1. The Economy.

Whatever you read and hear spouted from our state and federal governments, most people are DOING IT TOUGH! More and more erople are now employed on part time or casual basis and are having their hours cut. As a result there is less disposable income and less job security. I don't need to tell you what this does to tournament nos.

2. The Cost of Staying Competitive

Consider this. To be competitive at major tournaments a bowler needs the right equipment and that is expensive unless you are on a company's ball staff. constant upgrading of equipment to be competitive at a national level would cost at least $1500 per year MINIMUM. Practice is expensive (unless you can get to Werribee) and without practising at least 10 games a week you are not likely to be competitive.

3. Baggage Limits

Time and distance mean that most bowlers have to fly to events and baggage limits mean you are limited in how much equipment you can take. Straight away the bowler is at a disadvantage compared to locals unless you are willing to shell out even more money.

4. Conditions

It's an unfortunate fact that some bowlers want to be virtually guaranteed a 200 average and current policies tend to work very much against this end. I, for one, don't want to see massive open ditches at our events, but not everyone sees it this way.

UNfortunately these factors are working against tournament promoters and I really don't know what the answers are.

 

[RobbieB]

Hi Deano,
Why was the date of the tournament moved in the first place? May is when all of the states hold Rachuig trials and champs - wasn't the tourney held in January in 2012?

 

[Deano]

Main reason tournament date was changed was that time of year as alot found out it low to mid 40's which aren't pleasurable bowling/working conditions for staff/bowlers/or anyone really. When date was set I think it was only Qld that had rachuig trial dates set. Victoria have only just released there date and WA select there team I believe. Also Wodonga skins were on the same long weekend as us last year. Just thought it was a win win for everyone. But we will battle on.

 

[James Mc]

Regional centres have a much tougher job trying to get an event off the ground. We have a skins event on this weekend and we only have 18 entries, there are not to many travelling any distance to play unless there is plenty of cash up for grabs. The problem then in regional centres is that often you loose your local support if you increase the prize pool as many feel they cant compete against the better more expierienced players that will then travel.
A stand out event in regional australia would have to be the Orange Tenpin Cup and hopefully now the Sunraysia open. Good luck and I hope it goes well for you.

James

 

[bluey]

Rachuig trials have been last weekend in May I believe for the last few years? I thought Sunraysia was safe for that weekend.

 

[CHIN]

I know S.A. trials have been the last weekend in May for the last 3 years at least. With the W.A. seniors tournament on the last weekend this year was always going to be a good chance trials were going to be the weekend before then.

Straight from the TBA website and sent to all States:-

State Team Roll-Offs
Below are the approved dates for 2013 for all states and territories to conduct state team roll-offs for juniors, youth, adult, seniors and restricted bowlers.

States may use any of approved dates either for state championships or for roll-offs. However for purposes of the draft, states must notify the Tenpin Bowling Australia national office of their team lineup by the dates indicated below.

National Championship Cut Off Date for Notification to National OfficeYouth Team Challenge - 30th September 2012
Junior President’s Shield - 30th November 2012
Adult Restricted, Seniors and Rachuig - 31st May 2013.

For further details regarding the Draft, please refer to the State Team Draft Player Policy.

2013 State Championships
February 9th and 10th
February 16th and 17th
May 4th – 6th May *** public holiday – 6th May in QLD and NT
May 18th and 19th
July 13th and 14th
August 3rd and 4th
August 10th and 11th
September 7th and 8th

Given that the first dates are early February. Would be reasonable to say this info was available last year for States to organize State Championships for February.

If 31st May is the cut off date to notify National Office the May dates are the only reasonable dates to have your trials.

Is Sunraysia tournament TBA accredited. If not maybe the date clash may have been addressed when application went in.

 

[Deano]

Wouldn't you put those dates on the tournament calendar?

 

[CHIN]

Wouldn't you put those dates on the tournament calendar?

Exactly where I found it.


2013 Ranked Events Calendar
Open
2 - 3 February
Joondalup Cup Results
AMF Joondalup
8 - 10 March
Kegel Qld Open Results
Caboolture Bowl
29 - 31 March
Australian Open Entry Form
AMF Keon Park
08 - 10 June
Schweppes Melbourne Tenpin Cup
Oz Tenpin Chirnside Park
22 - 23 June
NSW Open
Tenpin City Bowl
2 - 4 August
2013 Barrier Reef Motel Innisfail Open
Innisfail Sugarbowl Lanes
25 - 26 October
Australian Masters
Kirwan Tenpin
23 - 24 November
2013 Hobart Tenpin Cup
AMF Moonah
Women
29 - 31 March
VIC 150 Entry Form
AMF Keon Park
08 - 10 June
Schweppes Melbourne Tenpin Cup
Oz Tenpin Chirnside Park
22 - 23 June
NSW Open
Tenpin City Bowl
20 - 21 July
Qld Ladies Classic
Caboolture Bowl
25 - 26 October
Australian Masters
Kirwan Tenpin
Senior
19 - January
Qld Hammer Senior Classic Results
Caboolture Bowl
23 - 24 February
Australian Seniors Open Results
AMF Keon Park
23 - 24 March
Canberra Seniors Cup Entry Form
AMF Tuggernanong
27 - 28 April
South Australian Seniors Classic Entry Form
AMF Village
25 - 26 May
Western Australia Seniors Cup Entry Form
AMF Rockingham
15 - 16 June
2013 Macquarie Bank Sydney Seniors Classic
AMF Rooty Hill
October
Seniors Cup
Kirwan Tenpin
Youth
12 - 13 January
2013 National Youth Cup Results
AMF Joondalup
2 - 3 March
2013 Werribee Youth Cup Results
Wyncity Bowl Ent
25 - 26 May
2013 Sydney Youth Cup Entry Form
Campbelltown City Bowl
17 - 18 August
2013 Tenpin SA Youth Masters
AMF Cross Road
15 - 16 September
Geelong Youth Cup
Oz Tenpin Geelong
1 - 3 November
Youth Champion of Champions
AMF Cannon Hil
30 Nov - 1 Dec
Perth Youth Cup
AMF Morley
2013 Designated State Championships/Roll-Offs Approved Dates
State Team Roll-Offs
Below are the approved dates for 2013 for all states and territories to conduct state team roll-offs for juniors, youth, adult, seniors and restricted bowlers.

States may use any of approved dates either for state championships or for roll-offs. However for purposes of the draft, states must notify the Tenpin Bowling Australia national office of their team lineup by the dates indicated below.
National Championship Cut Off Date for Notification to National OfficeYouth Team Challenge - 30th September 2012
Junior President’s Shield - 30th November 2012
Adult Restricted, Seniors and Rachuig - 31st May 2013.
For further details regarding the Draft, please refer to the State Team Draft Player Policy.

2013 State Championships
February 9th and 10th
February 16th and 17th
May 4th – 6th May *** public holiday – 6th May in QLD and NT
May 18th and 19th
July 13th and 14th
August 3rd and 4th
August 10th and 11th
September 7th and 8th

 

[Deano]

Congratulations for that Chin. Several of us looked and couldn't find dates. Even TBA had to ring me back to even tell me the dates. Anyway this topic isn't just about our tournament but tournaments in general. Personally myself I'd love to see a 5 person teams tournament. Not sure how it could be done but I'm working on it.