Reply to dissatisfied tournament bowlers

[BELMO]

I've been reading how everyone is upset with tournaments being cancelled. I really don't blame a lot of proprietors. Some go to a lot of work to promote tournaments (like the BMW Orange Open) and we get very little responce. To date we have only 40 players and 90% are the same bowlers who come year after year. Where are all the bowlers that complain that there are NO TOURNAMENTS. We are only 3 hour drive from Sydney. (see entry form on web site totalbowling). Come on bowlers support proprietors that really do support bowlers. 90% of your entry fees are returned to you. Sure there may not be the thousands of dollars in prize money but yeh it is a GREAT TOURNAMENT and a great weekend.

Our centre and manager at our Chester Hill bowl also supports bowlers but again we don't get any support from bowlers as evidence on the last youth tournament. Only 20 youth bowlers nominated. Do you blame centres going cosmic bowling. Sometimes I think people bring the problems onto themselves. Support us and we will support you the Bowlers.
Thanks
Aldo Belmonte Proprietor.

 

[chromospheres]

Hello Aldo belmonte. i agree 50% of your statement is true. Even though with all the promoting from the proprietors they would need to do some following up. it,s called marketing,research,why bowlers do not show up,for these TOURNAMENTS. Well my guess is income it seems to stay the same as everything else gets to expensive,bowlers loose intrest after a while as to find how to save for there next Tournament. Proprietors need to make a fair proposition to Bowlers,and Bowlers work with Bowlers to keep the sport going.Once a bowler has been stung in the back side for what ever the reason, IE:slander,gossip,cheating lane issues,e.t.c e.t.c e.t.c. IT WILL BE HARD TO GET THEM BACK. The other thing is time after time most bowlers donate to the top playing field in Tournaments. Tournaments should be GRADED, OPEN CLASS ,A GRADE , C GRADE. With proof of leauge AVG. Well i been in this game for more than 25 years. From VAL

 

[CSP]

Val,

Aldo is correct. Bowlers do not show up to tournaments, they will be cancelled. Why do you think the AMF NSW Grand Prix Circuit folded because not enough entries were attending for it to survive. Plain and simple.

To All Bowlers,

In the last five years, tournament bowling entries have declined not because bowlers cannot save the money to bowl due to living expenses rising, it's because bowlers believe they cannot beat the elite and think they will not make money, therefore don't want to part with their cash. Bowlers need to realize that you cannot make money in Tenpin Bowling in this country.

THE MONEY IS OVERSEAS.

SPEND IT AND BOWL IN THE LAST FEW TOURNAMENTS THIS STATE HAS.

The world is about having fun and enjoying ourselves. That means in what ever we decide to do, including playing this sport. Until some bowlers jump off cloud nine about how good they are and just enjoy the weekend by playing the sport they love and have a night out with partners or friends, the sport will never get better.

Why did AMF cancel NSW Grand Prix tournament circuit? They were receiving 40-60 entries an event, not good enough to survive. Cost was too expensive for the average player. Some players were bowling the whole season at $180 (prior to 2005) plus travel expenses and did not cash at all. Why would they waste another season at the cost when they were not good enough.

Sure some months people cannot afford to play in tournaments. This is why a tournament calendar is out every year, for bowlers to plan ahead.

Bowlers that have a free weekend on the April long weekend (23/24) should head west to compete in the Orange Open. I have participated in this event many times and must say what a great weekend it was. I took my family, I bowled well (2003) and we then had dinner at a resturant close by. Terrific weekend and is recommended by all bowlers. 2004/2005 I have been unable to attend due to work committments but will be putting it on my event calendar in the future.

8)
Christian Purdue

 

[Andrew S.]

Maybe you guys need to have chat with Mary Flower in South Qld. Her tournament series goes from strength to strength.

 

[Susanne]

Just for the record

The Grand Prix Circuit entry fee per tournament when I started bowling them was: $170 for 12 games

Last year it became $170 for 10 games

This year the cost to bowl in a Grand Prix Tournament was
$190 for 8 Games

I would suggest that the reason only the top bowlers turned up was because for the bowler who enjoys bowling tournaments but does not cash cannot afford such a high entry fee for just a bit of fun.

Mary Flower's tournaments are good value for money and this is why her tournaments are well attended.

Hope to see you all at Orange

 

[ladykitchener]

A lot has been said about tournement bowling and why it is going downhill. Entry fees are ok but it is the other costs that are the killer.

You have:

entry fee

airfaires

motel room

transport

meals etc

sometimes this can cost as much as $1000.00.

How can our youth bowlers afford that when most are just fining their way in the workforce or are still at uni? I cannot afford to pay out that much but that is what it cost to go to Melbourne for the AO.

Werribee is great because they are kind enough to pick up from the airport and they billett bowlers which is fantastic, Mary Flower does this for the K & K as well, that is why these are so successful!!!

Maybe others can do this to get more numbers.

It is very dissapointing that the NSW Youth was cancelled, we need to keep our youth bowlers interested and competing but let us make it affordable for them.

Of course all bowlers on all levels find the costs high so we really need to find answers as quickly as possible.

 

[Nighteyes300]

i have said it once and i'll say it again.
The youth of Australia need a circuit similer to that of the AMF Super Six.

 

[griggsy]

well this is my opinion.

for those who know me, I aint the best bowler there is, as my tournement record will vouch for, nor am I the richest person alive, i sacrifice alot to be able to afford to travel to the mainland. the reason why i do this is the love of the game brings me back, I always love a challenge. but also too I know how disconcerting bowling on the mainland is and not cashing or coming anywhere near close, especially when you have been bowling so well at home/home state and find that you really havent got as far as you think. what im trying to say is I guess is alot of people out there see how good these other bowlers like belmo etc are and want to be the same, now dont get me wrong but I also think alot of bowlers fail to realise exactly how long or how much work it has taken to get that good. this I found out the hard way. there are alot of factors as to why this happens, and as some one else has suggested I think a poll/forum on how tournement bowling would be made more attractive to people who aren't as skilled as others would be beneficial to the sport of bowling, yes there is going to be a lot fo slander and crap but you have to move past that and for every reason some one gives you why they wont travel, you have to think of a reason why they should and how it can be implemented. I would be interested in doing something like this with some help.
feedback?

 

[Easy Tiger]

Two examples in the youth tournaments that I can think of straight off the top of my head that seem to do well every single year at attracting numbers (at least recently) are Brunswick Youth in Canberra and the Werribee Youth Cup. Both of these tournaments showcase the best Australian Youth has to offer in the scratch division, but they both also have a handicap final on the last day, as most youth bowlers will know. Everyone bowls for scratch in qualifying - I still believe that's the most important aspect and should stay that way - i.e. I don't believe in making separate divisions from the beginning (scratch and handicap). However, I think it's a great concept having the top 16 or however many taken out after qualifying, and then adding verified handicaps to the remainder of the field, and then based on scratch + handicap having a handicap final on the last day containing the top 12 or so of that field.

Obviously this is an extra incentive for up and coming bowlers to travel to and bowl these events - because at least they have a chance at making something. They gain invaluable experience at the same time at a national level. I understand that this may be difficult in centres with say 20 lanes - as both of those centres are bigger centres, but surely something can be worked out, maybe start one earlier and make it knock out, I don't know.

Anyway something seems to be working for those two youth tournaments, perhaps that has something to do with it. A youth circuit similar to the Super 6 would be lovely, but I don't know how successful it would be at youth level.

Just my thoughts.

 

[Rig]

Griggsy I think that is well said. When I made my post re disenchantment of tournament bowling, I was referring mainly to junior/youth bowling. I think what you have said about the adult circuit is right on. I do not think that this is a time to just whinge, but to help come up with alternatives and solutions to this situation. I do agree that it can be an ego deflater to come up against Belmo, Little, Frilingos, Trotter, etc., but I also agree that these guys work really damn hard to achieve the level they do.
I do believe that the tournaments need to be more attractive to your 180-200 bowler as well. I believe that a forum to discuss this would be an advantage.
There are valuable and reasonable points being made by both sides, and at least there is some discussion regarding this. The Frawleys, Littles, and Belmos of this world were direct benificiaries of the past tournament scenes, and as long as the Sings, Kanafas, Maccas, etc get the same opportunity, then I would be happy.

 

[nomad]

Disenchanted Tourny

Having read the previous posts i relised that sponsers are very important.
What do you say when you hear that the Major Sponser for an upcoming Tournament, was banned for LIFE from aspley 10 pin bowl for taking a new pair of bowling shoes to son. And also watching Walter De Ver Roll Off and Rachuig Roll Off. SO i believe. Obviously Aspley do not need sponsers for tournaments.

 

[PeterB]

For me it's all about the money. It doesn't bother me if I don't cash, but rather the cost to enter the tournaments and getting to them. Big names don't intimidate me. I see them as a challenge and anyone can be beaten on the day. Tournaments simply aren't affordable.

 

[Andrew S.]

Your post is not constructive and also does not belong in the Main Forum. This is a Qld Matter.
Aspley Bowl Management have a different take on this matter and surely it is between the Bowl and the other person concerned.
I think you owe the Bowl an apology for a rather offensive post.


GT My post refers to the one above yours. Sorry I should have quoted Nomads post first.

 

[PeterB]

Andrew I understood that immediately mate and I agree.

 

[froggy]

i agree with what everyone has had to say. there are alot of little factors that amount to why youth tournaments arent getting the numbers. It all comes down to confidence and money, money being a huge issue.
To get to where Belmo, Little, Walsh etc are at the moment, you need money (for practise) and alot of spare time. Alot of youth bowlers dont have that, especially if they are trying to juggle Uni and work.
As a junior, I never realised how easy/cheap we had it at shellharbour bowl. Sue and Andrew bent over backwards to make sure their juniors were looked after, Sue and the team at Strikezone still do. As a junior, i never realised how much money it was actually costing them and my parents to keep me in the sport. If it wasnt for them, i wouldnt have gone as far with the sport as i did (thanks guys/girls)
Since ive left juniors, ive learnt how expensive it is because i have paid for everything myself. Personally, i would love to get back into bowling like i was in juniors, but its impossible, my work hours dont allow it, but the main thing is my wage doesnt allow it, regardless of how much time in advance i plan an interstate tournament.
Apart from tournament entry/travel there/motels/food etc, you also have to think about equipment and keeping that up to date - more costs.

Its a lose lose situation - bowling alleys/tournaments need money to run, and they need entries to do it, i really do think money is the main issue here

 

[The1bigun4eva]

For all the whines I hear about money, it's your choice. Either you love it enough to find the money or will work on finding a sponsor. If neither of these things are what you want to do, then I guess you don't place that high an importance on it.
Yes it all costs a lot, but so what. If you really want it bad enough you'll make it happen one way or another.

 

[froggy]

Not everyone has the ability to just 'make it happen'. To get a sponsor, you need to be good. You need to be able to show they are actually gaining something out of sponsoring you. To do that, you need to practise, to practise you need money to pay for practise.

Personally, my pay every week is all but gone to rent/food/bills/car/fuel etc before i even get my pay packet. At times, i am lucky to even pay to bowl a league, and i work full time!!! Im sure alot of youth bowlers will understand what i am saying, especially if they go to uni and juggle uni and a job.

Its not as easy as just making it happen, as everyone keeps saying.

 

[da_cowman]

I honestly don't think its the tournament bowling that costs alot. It's the league and practice bowling that costs too much. This makes it harder to save up for the tournaments when you are trying to practice to reach a level where you can compete at with the best in the business.
Every kid that bowls at Strikezone knows how much Sue gives us. We get alot for not much at all. Strikezone is basically cutting out the Practice expense for us.
Centres need to look after the tournaments bowlers, just like Strikezone does. They need to make it cheap for the people who are serious about this game to get serious about their game. I know that this is easy for me to say sitting here on my computer without a centre of my own to worry about.
But how many people would bowl more tournaments if practice was charged at a decent level?? If people could save $20 a week on practice. Thats an extra $160 bucks they have for every Super 6 tournament. Perhaps even, this money would go back into more practice meaning that instead of just missing the cut people would cash and make more then the $160 they saved in the past 2 months.
With more people being able to save more towards the big tournaments, we would hope that it would mean that more people would show up to the big tournaments and making it a bigger, tougher and better tournament to compete in.
Also, no more matchplay. We need formats where anyone can win. I know soccer pretty well so I will use two soccer examples.
1. The World Cup. I don't care if you love or hate soccer. This is the biggest Sporting event. EVER. Its has 8 groups of 4 where the teams play each other once. 1 bad performance and you might not make it to the next round... Then the top 2 from each group go to knockout stage. 1 game. Winner takes all. All the way to the final... There is absolutly no guarantee that Brazil will beat South Korea. Chances are they will, but it's no guarantee. Its anyones competition and the two best teams could meet in the first knockout stage, or not even make the knockout stage, like France in 2002. Anything can happen, and anything does happen. Its the kind of format that makes people want to watch cos the outcome is never definate.
2. UEFA Champions League. Biggest Club event. Only for the Champions of each league in Europe, plus a few more. Same as the World Cup in format, except that play 2 legs to each knockout stage (best of 5 instead of beat of 3). Some of the biggest Clubs in the world are already out (Real Madrid, Manchester United and Barcelona), with still some of the biggest clubs in the world still in (AC and Inter Milan, Bayern Munich and [just for you craig] Chelsea) That is like Belmo, George and Walshy all being knocked out, but with people still like Trots, Davy and Lean still in there. It's definatly good viewing.
Knockout formats. Anyone can win. Cheaper Practice is what I honestly think this game needs.

Later Da Cowman!

 

[PeterB]

For all the whines I hear about money, it's your choice.

It's not a matter of choice. It's a matter of priorities.

Either you love it enough to find the money or will work on finding a sponsor.

You need to get your head back into the real world mate. You really think it's that easy, do you? Gee, why didn't I think of a sponsor. :roll: I'm a scratch average. Will you sponsor me? You appear to have the money.

If neither of these things are what you want to do, then I guess you don't place that high an importance on it.

Again, it comes down to priorities. My family comes first. Are you telling me I should put bowling ahead of them?

Yes it all costs a lot, but so what. If you really want it bad enough you'll make it happen one way or another.

So what??? :? That's without a doubt the stupidest thing I've ever read.....and I've read the St George Dragons forum.

 

[The1bigun4eva]

Gee seems like you've tried then to get a sponsor then. Wait, probably not!!! Too much self doubt or too little care?

I am not even 200 average yet but have a sponsor. Why? Because I did the leg work and canvassed over 1000 businesses and so on. Don't knock it til you've tried it.

Good luck with finding a sponsor!