Should we allow the changes to DeVeer?

[dunryc]

gj ,
my question was in relation to both de veer and rachuig coaches, managers etc . Since jan has problems with the simplest questions, thank you for attempting to clarify, and the rules which he applies to earning the right to wear said state rep shirts and what entitles a person to be able to wear one.

Brad, There was nothing simple about the question you tried to pose besides the person posting it. Deciphering your intentions through the other gibberish that preceded it was a waste of time so Thank you Clem for trying to clarify.

If the question was so simple, why are YOU thanking Clem for only attempting to clarify, if it was that simple, it should be self evident. I don't really get the point of the question, but I'll answer it anyway. It should be pretty obvious how I feel about it.

Coaches, Managers of Rachuig State Teams are Coaches and Managers of their respective State Teams, and as such are entitled to wear a shirt that declares that they are coach and manager of a State team. Simple enough for you? I believe you have to be at least a level 2 coach to be able to nominate as a Rachuig Coach. I believe you only have to be a level 1 coach to nominate as a WDV coach. A difference of at least 2 years in coaching experience and again I would say that the Rachuig Coach has EARNED his right to be called a State Team Coach. WDV Coaches and Managers are associated with a restricted "fun" tournament, that should never have realised representational status so no, I would not consider them eligible to wear State Shirts either. The only difference is that WDV Coaching could be a useful stepping stone for Rachuig Coaching should they choose to complete the additional steps required. In it's present format, WDV does not provide a good stepping stone for the bowlers to advance to Rachuig Level. Hence the changes.

I do agree with Sue on one thing, I think these discussions have run their course and are now serving no useful purpose. There is no WDV tournament anymore, so it's pretty pointless arguing about something that doesn't even exist. It's like arguing about whether Buddhism or Christianity is better. It's an argument about who has the better imaginary friend. You guys can ramble on all you want, I'm done!

Jan

 

[Feral]

Brad, There is no WDV tournament anymore, so it's pretty pointless arguing about something that doesn't even exist. It's like arguing about whether Buddhism or Christianity is better. It's an argument about who has the better imaginary friend. You guys can ramble on all you want, I'm done!
Jan

Thanks!!! I hope you are!!!

 

[Top Gun]

I do agree with Sue on one thing, I think these discussions have run their course and are now serving no useful purpose. There is no WDV tournament anymore, so it's pretty pointless arguing about something that doesn't even exist. It's like arguing about whether Buddhism or Christianity is better. It's an argument about who has the better imaginary friend. You guys can ramble on all you want, I'm done!
Jan

Ain't Over Until The Fat Lady Sings !!!!!!!

 

[CHIN]

Rest in Peace Fat Lady.

 

[JWhitty]

Voters: 143. This poll is closed

Just an observation, we're not a long way off more replies than votes. I'd suggest all this has actually achieved is to demonstrate of thousands and thousands of members, only 143 cared, chose, or were able to vote, and only 105 of them went the way this thread is aimed.

I admire the passion most WDV bowlers share, and I respect the respective positions of both sides of this argument, and I know I'm going to take a pineapple on this comment; it would seem "the masses" have agreed with TBA through their failure to act.

Thinking about it, whilst WDV caters to the greater population of bowlers, they probably don't care because they've never heard of it...

I'm not sure I have a point, except to say that we seem to have failed to get much interest here except for a passionate and dedicated few.

I don't see that there's anything here to support WDV if presented to the decision makers, nothings been said here to make TBA take notice, it's all been emotional. The most sensible things here are in the petition.

Good luck to WDV, hope it all works out for you, but I seriously doubt this thread has helped your cause.

 

[mongoliantreesloth]

Whilst the vast majority of the population probably haven't seen this thread, 73.43% of those that have endorse Max's original post. This, to me anyway, represents a goodly number of people.

 

[dunryc]

Just an observation, we're not a long way off more replies than votes. I'd suggest all this has actually achieved is to demonstrate of thousands and thousands of members, only 143 cared, chose, or were able to vote, and only 105 of them went the way this thread is aimed.
I admire the passion most WDV bowlers share, and I respect the respective positions of both sides of this argument, and I know I'm going to take a pineapple on this comment; it would seem "the masses" have agreed with TBA through their failure to act.
Thinking about it, whilst WDV caters to the greater population of bowlers, they probably don't care because they've never heard of it...
I'm not sure I have a point, except to say that we seem to have failed to get much interest here except for a passionate and dedicated few.
I don't see that there's anything here to support WDV if presented to the decision makers, nothings been said here to make TBA take notice, it's all been emotional. The most sensible things here are in the petition.
Good luck to WDV, hope it all works out for you, but I seriously doubt this thread has helped your cause.

I hadn't thought of that Jeff, but you are absolutely correct. They didn't even get 1 years worth of WDV bowlers bother to give them a positive vote.
On the 3 main WDV Threads raised in the last few weeks, there were roughly 260 posts. Of these, the most prolific posters were as follows.

Dunryc - 34
Strop - 26
GJElectrics - 24
JWhitty - 15
Tidal Wave - 14
Chin - 14

So out of a total of 260 posts, nearly half were posted by just 6 people. Add another 36 posts between the next 4 highest, and that gives you approx 160 posts by just 10 people. Thats over 60%. I have to agree with Jeff, that such a low response rate does nothing but prove that except for a few enthusiastic misguided souls flogging a dead horse, the majority of the general bowling community just don't care, again proving that TBA have made the right call.

Thanks!!! I hope you are!!!
__________________
Feral

You are thanking me for my thought provoking and insightful comments Feral? You are most welcome!

Seems I wasn't done afterall. I wouldn't want to let my public down!

Jan

 

[Rob_SA]

I'm a newbie on this board, so forgive me for adding my comment if you feel it's out of line....

Back in the late 80's and early 90's I bowled in a social league at Noarlunga Centre here in SA. I was aware that there were higher competitions than ours, but I had no idea what they were... just that you'd probably have to be a hell of a bowler to get into them. Fast forward to a few months ago when my son and a few of his friends started bowling socially at Woodville and asked us to come along. Now it's January, league starts this Sunday, my wife and I (she bowled league in Mt Gambier a while ago) and the aforementioned son and two of his friends have formed a team and we're back in the game!

With the advent of the Net we now have access to lots of information... even a forum for Aussie bowlers. I'm now aware that there are levels of competition above league that may be aspired to. It appears we have two national championship competitions, one handicapped, the other scratch. Commonsense would suggest it's a big wide world so why not allow both to exist? We have the Olympics for the elite athletes who want to get sponsorships, thousands of dollars per medal from the government, and then go onto the motivational speaking circuit... hopefully they'll throw a few dollars to Mum and Day who payrolled the process that got them the medals. We also have things like the Masters Games for people who want to have some fun socialising, doing their best in their sport, socialising, doing team stuff, socialising, etc. There was a 90 year old woman who got a swag of medals at the Masters Games for swimming. Should we compare her to Shane Gould or Hayley Lewis? I think not. She did well... better than I ever could... she's to be commended but probably not celebrated.

Perhaps there's an argument to allow both an elite competition off scratch and a handicap competition. Your elected committees at local, state and national level give up their time to make those decisions, and if that's their decision then that's that. Don't like it? Ask when the next AGM is, get the numbers and you can change the world! If indeed both competitions can co-exist then it's up to the governing body at national, state and local levels to make sure that the average bowler or spectator is made aware of the selection process, the pathway (including readily available coaching and mentoring), and that there's a difference between the two competitions.

Having spent just a bit of time in Surf Life Saving nothing annoys me more than hearing people making (usually) ill-informed comments about the decisions made by representative committees. So many times the most vocal critics are the people who don't go to AGM's in case they're asked to step up and actually make an effort on behalf of the sport they purport to hold so dear.

Back to our 90 year old swimmer. Despite the limited field and circumstances of her medal haul, I have a sneaking suspicion that Shane Gould or Hayley Lewis would be amongst the first to congratulate her and welcome her as a peer. It seems the same cannot be said for some of the people posting on this thread. Like it or not, if you think this is your pond and you're one of the big fish, you always need to remember that it's a public forum and to someone like me returning to this sport many of these posts aren't a very good advertisement for the movement or the competitions being discussed. There's a saying "The bigger the star, the nicer they are".

 

[pixie]

Sorry to disagree, yet again, with your assertion that the lack of people posting is a response to their lack of interest in the sport, the competition and the situation we find ourselves in. Many people in the community, in fact all that I have spoken with in the ACT are finding that the majority of comments made by over-inflated, know-it-alls who in fact know nothing of which they speak are below their consideration and have treated these comments with the contempt they deserve.

WDV bowlers have not jumped up and down whingeing and whining like children who have lost their lolly pops, the majority of posts and threads were started with constructive ideas and questions to which we received, as always, nothing but contempt and derision from people who are just posting to hear themselves speak....

Unless the rules changed last year when I didn't play WDV also required Level 2 coaches to be classsed as a coach, the ACT team has not taken a coach away for 5 years that I know of as no one would step up to the plate to help us....

Until 05/06, we were required to undergo drug testing - as a consequence my doctor's file contains the words "elite sportsperson" - chew on that one for a while.....

My question regarding why am I an embarassment if I play with a 170 average for De Veer and yet considered elite if I play with a 170 average for Rachuig still stands - I am the same bowler, with the same handicap and the same chance of winning just as many games.......surely more embarassing to send a team with averages of 170 to Rachuig..........

As for "if you don't like the politics get on the Board and do something about it" - not always possible when AGM's are not exactly well announced in some areas and when it comes to the voting the old boys club holds fast and wont allow you in, no matter what the reasons are that you are trying to get on the Board.

Was it the local boards that made the decision regarding the axeing of WDV or was it the State Managers? who voted for their state managers? not me, so how could we possibly have controlled this decision.

I agree that this forum has reduced to nothing more than a farce, this was not the intent, however, some blowhards have reduced it to that as they continue to sprout rubbish about things they know nothing about - do not tarnish all bowlers with the same brush, we dont!!

 

[DrewC]

As for "if you don't like the politics get on the Board and do something about it" - not always possible when AGM's are not exactly well announced in some areas and when it comes to the voting the old boys club holds fast and wont allow you in, no matter what the reasons are that you are trying to get on the Board.

Was it the local boards that made the decision regarding the axeing of WDV or was it the State Managers? who voted for their state managers? not me, so how could we possibly have controlled this decision.

HI Tina,

I don't know which local association you applied for but keep trying, it is the only way you can make changes. You can then represent your local association at the State level. (In the ACT anyway)

To hopefully clear up some misconceptions out there:
A) The State managers do not make decisions on TBA policy they merely are there to either implement it or guide the state associations in the implementation of TBA policy depending on the set up in their area. So to suggest it was the State managers who decided to axe Deveer as you put it is not correct. Decisions like that are made by the CEO and the TBA Board who are in turn voted in by the state delegates therefore representatives of the bowling community.

There is still a Deveer tournament, which provides an opportunity for teams to come together in a competitive fun environment the format has changed somewhat but it opens it up for more people to become involved.

Tina if you are interested in becoming involved in the administration side again please do not hesitate to contact me and i will put you in touch with your local association, they are all looking for volunteers as far as I know.

Cheers

Drew

 

[dunryc]

My question regarding why am I an embarassment if I play with a 170 average for De Veer and yet considered elite if I play with a 170 average for Rachuig still stands - I am the same bowler, with the same handicap and the same chance of winning just as many games.......surely more embarassing to send a team with averages of 170 to Rachuig..........

Tina, you personally are not an embarrassment because you have a 170 average, the fact that they give you a State Representative shirt to go away and bowl in a handicap tournament is the embarrassing part. As I posted in my original reply to your question, if you were lucky enough to make the Rachuig Team with your 170 average, (which you probably could in the ACT unfortunately) In all likelihood, they would bemoan the lack of depth locally that allows a 170 average bowler to make the Rachuig Team and then they would go to the draft to try to improve their roster. In my opinion, the ACT shouldn't even send a ladies team to the Nationals, if they can't even get 7 nominations locally. I just can't see the point. Making the Rachiug Team should be hard, and should be earned, not just automatic because you turned up and filled out a nomination form.
Now I know that my comments will not sit well with most of you, but if they lead to addressing the fundamental problems of the sport, instead of catering to the egos of the Wanna-be's, by falsely giving them a feel good State Rep Status, then I'm OK with being a target for your hostility. Unless we can improve the quality of nominations and participation numbers in the Ladies Rachuig Team, we probably shouldn't bother. We need to concentrate on improving ability, enticing more participation and then send a team away when we are more competitive.

Jan