Should tournament directors have the ability to re average b

[Tam]

In tournaments in Melbourne represented by the MTBA if a bowler is bowling 5-10 pins over there normal league average the have the right to re average a bowler.I know this doesnt matter in Open events but what about the handicap eventy.
1. Do you think this is fair? and also
2. Do you think they should be able to do it?

 

[carly]

I believe that tournament directors do have the right to re average bowlers in a graded tournament. just recenetly in Werribee cup, a certain bowler maintains a low league average yet still manages to pull high games out of her but with 75 hamdicap! hardly fair!

thanx 4 ur other postings tam, ur a sweetheart! luv ya!

 

[da_cowman]

If a bowler is bolwing 5-10 over his/her average then no the directors shouldnt have the right, really they shouldnt have the right at all, however in a handicapped tourny, if a bowler is throwing 20 pins above average CONSISTANTLY then yes maybe it should be altered, but sometimes when its ur day 140 aves can go out and ave 170 and should they really be punished for bowling well on the day??? i dont think so.

Later Da Cowman

 

[Kim B]

I dont think that a tournament dorector should have the ability to re average a bowl in a tournament.

Having an entry form which states a cut of average at a certain date is the reason for having gradings whether you bowl good or not

If they are going to re average a bowler they should type on the entry form instead of cut off average as at E.g. 31st december and the tournament is in May. they should write average as at what you think you want to bowl in the tournament.

The cut of average SHOULD be verified by the bowler's league secretary.

If they want to have the option of reavergaing a bowler have a set of games previous to the tournament that is set to establish an average and then gradings are calculated from those prior games.

My view anyway

 

[auSSie13]

This is an interesting topic and raises quite a few issues (some already raised) including (but by no means exhaustive) -

. secretary or guardian roles and responsibilities
. dynamic averaging
. consistency of lane conditions
. bowler focus
. tournament director rule options.

As a junior/youth guardian for a fairly active group of tournament/championship bowlers, I often wonder if I 'disadvantage' some of my bowlers. Why?

Where possible I maintain records of all the leagues, championships and tournaments that my charges bowl in (some of those records going back 5 yrs) - hence I tend to have a good set of averages and KNOW their current highest average and have encouraged them all to 'push the limit'.

So, when preparing tournament/championship entries some of them grumble about the 'division' they end up bowling in .... not because of their averages ... but because they know the averages of other bowlers they compete against .... and know them to be higher than that of the division in which they have been placed for the event. Is this ignorance on the part of the other bowlers registering guardian? Forgetfulness on the part of the bowler themselves? or deliberate?

Where I have been able to substantiate such 'differences', I have brought them to the attention of tournament directors.

There needs to be more transperency and availability of average information and we also need to ensure more of a bowlers bowling is taken into consideration .... in the 4 yrs I have been associated with junior bowling I have never seen an entering average set as an amalgam of all of a bowlers bowling ... current or as at a specified date.

With the technology available to us today, current averages should be being used ... all the leagues I manage for my bowlers are on line and I can (and have) direct(ed)tournament directors to those sites to review averages .... but maybe some people wouldn't like that degree of transparency!!!

Gone on long enough for this post ... and haven't even touched on the last 3 dot points.... save that for another....

Cheers

Stephan

 

[lozza]

ok well i bowled in the maitland championships and i was in graded and all that jazz and over the 2 days i avg nearly 20 pins over my entering avg, so in that case id rather not being re-avgd cause i really had been bowling like **** but abt 3 weeks ago i started getting coaching again and wats better its one on one coaching so my bowling started 2 improve greatly. but yes there r plenty of ppl who "sandbag" but then there r the genuine ppl who really r just bowling well and its hard to distinguish between the 2. a possible solution would be to grade ppl after they have bowled the events (avg them on wat they bowl) but this isnt always fair
thats all
love loz

 

[auSSie13]

The key to your situation loz is what was the impact on any of your league averages up to the day before Maitland.

If you have been back in a league since say beginning of Feb, bowling 3 games per week even an increase of 20 pins a game over the last 3 weeks before Maitland would have moved your average by about 10 pins. I don't know if that would have changed your grade ... but it would be closer to what you actually bowled for the championship.

Remember we need to have everyone using the same methods.

However, Maitland is a good example for lane condition differences ... the style and speed of the female bowlers and younger male bowlers ...actually saw them bowl above their averages ... in a lot of cases. Accuracy of ball placement and not speed ... were definite advantages .... much the same as last year!!!

Going to do it again at State?

SS

 

[Shelbe]

i dont think its fair to re average a bowler in tournament handicaped or not.

i know ALOT of people who bowl in a league and there average is say 158 or so and then come into a championships and they bowl there bums off and end at the end of a tournament with about a 170 ave
i have done it myself i think just about everyone has done it.
so i dont think its right to be able to do that.
cheers luv shellby
xoxoxoxo

 

[lozza]

thats is true my avg had increased the thing is that the cut off 4 the avg was the end of last yr and my avg had improved afew bit
and yes i do intend on tryin 2 do it again at state
love loz

 

[Shelbe]

hehe good stuff loz!
u have a great shot and u can go heaps far!
good luck ey
cheers luv shellby
xoxoxoxo

 

[John C]

I just bowled in tourni in melb where a bowler who came in with a 120 average bowled 705 scratch (176.25 ave over 4 games). This bowler always has a 120 average whenever she bowls in a tourni. The touniment directors for this tourni would have re averaged anyone else who bowled over their average, even if it is only 5 pins, but they never seem to re-average her when they should.

Raven782

 

[lozza]

hey thanx shelby.
if wat u say is true i guess its just a shame i left it soo late 2 really care about my bowling. i honestly couldnt say how long ive been bowlin 4 (it seems like 4eva) but ive only really started 2 care abt my bowling in say the last yr, but u get that!!!
u can talk to!! u have a great shot! i love to watch u bowl (thats one of the advantages of not making central i will just b able to sit there and watch u guys bowl, which is sumthing i actually enjoy doin) so anyway im just starting 2 confuse myself so im off
love yas
love loz

 

[John_Sampson]

Being a pretty keen bowler i would have to agree with raven 782 and lefty. This is twice in two weeks (werribee cup and shur graphics) when this ??CERTAIN BOWLER?? has has a average of 120 but bowled in excess of 160 average. THIS MAKES ME SO MAD and it is unfair to those with fair handicaps who want ot bowl but this discourages them.
Please post if you have any replies.
GO VIC>>>>>>>> CHRIS B

 

[Jenn Star]

Howdy gals and guys,

I am gonna have to agree with all you vics on this one.

1. No, I don't think that "Sandbagging" should be aloud.
2. Yes, Tournament directors should have the right to re-average them.
3. You can not tell me that Tournament Directors have no idea. They would know exactely who does it and should consider trying to place a better system maybe taking the persons average for the last tournament and their league average say 160 and league 120 and adding them then dividing it by 2 to make the new average 140.

But hey, I guess that is life and I have lost out to bowlers who sand bag before and I can tell you know THE PEOPLE WHO DO IT make us feel like ****. It gives new and young bowlers absoulutely no confidence.

that is that.
Hope it all makes sense.

 

[Shelbe]

loz man ur a good bowler! i bet u can beat ur brothers anytime!!!
(come on i know u can)
and ur in the train on squad anyways aren't ya?
i still reckon ur a kick arse bowler

cheers luv shellby xoxoxoxo

GO CENTRAL!!!!!

 

[Tam]

Yeah I agree with you Jenn, Johnny & Raven but the funny thing is I dont know how this person has managed to keep a 120 average over the last 3 years. Every tourni this person has entered in in the last 3 years it's average has been 120 I just dont understand it. I think theres something wrong there. DONT YOU AGREE???

 

[Matty_O]

Tournament Directors should have the right to reaverage a bowler before a tournament if it is obviouse that thier average does not reflect thier true ability.
This did not happen in the two recent tourneys in Melb.
"Sandbagging" is something that we should try to eliminate from our sport, so I suggest we do our best to bring this to the attention of everyone before our E.C.C.C so that this does not happen again.

 

[dzammit]

This is in particular a reply to Raven's comment about the tourament directors reaveraging anyone else.

I disagree. This particular person in question, or so I have heard, has a 180 league average. The problem is that once she found out she had bowled 15 games, she stopped bowling, hence the average is not considered established and is not recognised.

I also know that a certain member of the directing body of the tournament was relieved that this particular person was not the winner. Does this not say something about the extent of the power of the directing body? If they were relieved for this person not to have won, especially after having seen her in Werribee cup, not to mention the East Coasts in which she has done the same thing, do you not think they would have reaveraged her if they had the opportunity to?

I know, as i'm sure many of U do, a number of the members of the tournament directing body personally, and I know that they are all for fair play. They would never do anything to encourage such behaviour, and if they had a chance to stop it, they would!

 

[lozza]

hey shelby u know wat u were saying abt me being able 2 beat my bros anytime well yeah i did it 2nite in league i beat russ the first game(yay 4 me) and i even bowled crap!!! my 144 to his 132 (sorry russ couldnt help it) but then he backed it up wif a 212 and a 190 sumthing but its alrite i had my few moments of glory!!!
anyway "im outti" (sorry ive been watching clueless too much stupid school)
talk later
love loz

 

[lozza]

hey shelby u know wat u were saying abt me being able 2 beat my bros anytime well yeah i did it 2nite in league i beat russ the first game(yay 4 me) and i even bowled crap!!! my 144 to his 132 (sorry russ couldnt help it) but then he backed it up wif a 212 and a 190 sumthing but its alrite i had my few moments of glory!!!
anyway "im outti" (sorry ive been watching clueless too much stupid school)
talk later
love loz