Questions for the TBA @ the AGM

[Muels1]

Surely if the TBA does enforce a guideline/restriction for oiling conditions and oiling patterns it can be policed by officials by all associations. By this i mean if Wayne or anyone else elected to the board i think one of the first objectives would be the work better with all State Association that are affiliated with TBA. We hear many of these associations have had their problems with TBA in the past so why not work together with all then do you not only have the TBA board able to police policies and guidelines but less arguments to start with means more coming back to bowlers.
In regards to your statement Wayne on the membership fee being increased, cani ask you why honestly???
What do we get from the TBA for our $12.50???
Bowl an honour score and you have to pay for the plaque/ring/watch??? You have to pay for all Chevrons that bowlers achieve.
With local associations affiliated TBA these things are supplied to bowlers for FREE (well the first honour plaque in most cases)
For the competitive and tournament bowler they may not think much of these rewards for their money but you have to look at the whole spectrum, from your 210 average bowlers to the 120 averages.
In regard to your comment on the Membership cards. I know from personal experiences being a league secretary and collecting $25.00 (12.50 for TBA & 12.50 for the local association) for memberships was like getting blood out of a stone! You want to increase it to $25 - $40 per bowler? Bowlers of all average range ask why they should pay it and what do they get for their money? I can explain the local association for them but not once have i been able to tell them what they get from the TBA.
Recognition and Reward is possibly one reason why bowlers are leaving the sport. This could be addressed.
Cheers
Kelvin Mueller

 

[wchester]

In regards to your statement Wayne on the membership fee being increased, cani ask you why honestly???
What do we get from the TBA for our $12.50???
Bowl an honour score and you have to pay for the plaque/ring/watch??? You have to pay for all Chevrons that bowlers achieve.
In regard to your comment on the Membership cards. I know from personal experiences being a league secretary and collecting $25.00 (12.50 for TBA & 12.50 for the local association) for memberships was like getting blood out of a stone! You want to increase it to $25 - $40 per bowler? Bowlers of all average range ask why they should pay it and what do they get for their money? I can explain the local association for them but not once have i been able to tell them what they get from the TBA.

I thought I'd explained why a price hike was in order. We obviously can't give much if anything back with a $12.50 membership fee being charged. by doubling or tripling the cost of a TBA registration/membership, the additional $300,000-$600,000 would enable paid professionals to work towards building our bowler base ensuring the future of the sport and enabling the return of an awards programme which sees the 'average' bowler rewarding for not only winning their league, but reaching scoring milestones with new PBs.

Monies would also be apportioned to our national championships in the form of added prize money and a suitable prize fund for the Rachuig Competition.

Another priority would be to employ a dedicated officer, whose job it would be to contact each and every bowling centre owner and manager, answering their questions regarding the rules and regulations of the sport and seeing to it that all league bowlers have been made aware the TBA membership is not just an option but is mandatory for league and tournament play.

But the #1 goal of the TBA should be to secure our future by catering for the youth of Australia. A full blown national learn to bowl programme would be implemented and every school in the country within range of a bowling centre would be canvassed, to extoll the virtues of tenpin bowling. The physical, mental, recreational and competitive virtues of bowling would be stressed and all students would be invited to partake in a 'free' day of bowling at their local centre.

 

[rambo1]

He's some questions

Are we sending a Mens Team to World Championships this year?
If so, what is the criteria to make the team?
When will it be selected?
How much will the trip cost?

you won't have to worry about that George, you don't fit the TBAL criteria
just because you are a champion does not mean you are choice for selection

 

[mannyzog]

Well while on the subject of TBA sanctions,you would not need to increase the fee if you made every centre make every bowler pay their annual Sanction Fee.
And how then are leagues TBA sanctioned if all bowlers are not paid up members?
I know our centre gets every bowler to pay their sanction so why are we the only one that does or is there other centres out there that do.
All large centres and city centres should be ashamed that they take advantage of the system.
My observation over the past 4 years of involvement within a centre is that it is bowlers who think because they have been bowling for a long time forget how to foster and grow the sport with their attitudes towards new bowlers.

 

[mannah]

As raised previously it would be great if all league bowlers in our Centre were TBA registered.

I have addressed this issue with our Centre management and feel at times I am banging my head against a brick wall. Their response is that the "leagues" run by them are beginner/social leagues and therefore they don't feel able (want) to ask these "new" bowlers to pay the extra for TBA membership. As a Centre Secretary there is nothing I feel I can do about this.

Unfortunately some of the "leagues" have been going for several years now and although the centre manager has said they will arrange a time for an association representative to speak to these leagues about TBA memberships such times still have not been arranged despite several requests.

Any suggestions from TBA or other people on this forum as to what I can do?
100% centre registration would greatly improve income without having to increase fees.

 

[Jez]

He's some questions

Are we sending a Mens Team to World Championships this year?
If so, what is the criteria to make the team?
When will it be selected?
How much will the trip cost?

Good Question and one that needs to be answered ASAP...Worlds in on at the end of August it is now May......................

 

[Dozza]

World Youth is on early July and its nearly May.
Dozza :frusty:

 

[plpatford]

How to keep people in bowling and/or promote the sport? Questions for the TBA Board?
I go back to an idea I floated on this site a little while ago.
Only the best 7 under 18 boys and girls can make the State team each year. Almost every other sport invites the best of each age group (under 10, under 12, under 14 etc) to compete each year. Why is bowling different?
The best sports (international performance and participation levels) we have in this country have aged based interstate competitions. Why doesn't bowling?
My son went to the junior nationals recently and averaged well over 150 as a 12yo. Where does that leave him compared to others of his age? The chance of him making the state team at 12 or 13 is very low. When he does make it, then he is expected to compete against kids 4 or 5 years older than him. Not much incentive to try until it might be too late.
Why don't we get these kids at a young age competing against each other? Top level and close competition inspire, they do not hinder. Having kids able to compete against the best in the country (18 and under if they are good enough, or their own age) must bring more into the sport and keep them there longer.
Why not have international 14 and under representation? Most other sports have it, why not us?
Everyone knows that juniors lead the future direction of the sport. Many parents either pick up bowling or rejoin if their kids get into the sport. etc etc etc
Good luck Wayne and whoever else might be standing. whoever wins, please take a fresh approach because the old one (despite tremendous efforts) either hasn't worked or hasn't got the support of the bowling community.
Des

This is a great idea but lets start with interstate challenges in age brackets. As it stands now most of our juniors are 16 or over before they get a chance at Nationals due to the $$$. We need more sponsorship in bowling and this will only come with advertising and promotion and getting more junior bowlers into centres.

 

[ThEOnE]

Well while on the subject of TBA sanctions,you would not need to increase the fee if you made every centre make every bowler pay their annual Sanction Fee.
And how then are leagues TBA sanctioned if all bowlers are not paid up members?
I know our centre gets every bowler to pay their sanction so why are we the only one that does or is there other centres out there that do.
All large centres and city centres should be ashamed that they take advantage of the system.
My observation over the past 4 years of involvement within a centre is that it is bowlers who think because they have been bowling for a long time forget how to foster and grow the sport with their attitudes towards new bowlers.

I know at Latrobe it is mandatory.
You must pay it or after week three you cannot bowl. Very simple.
It is also criteria for all represetatives of LVTBA to be registered.

 

[grumpie]

Allegedly under the instructions of the ASC, at the October 2006 TBA State Managers meeting, the TBA State Managers elected to re-format the Walter De Veer Memorial Tournament into a similar centre versus centre competition in order to increase and promote participation at the annual National Championships.
As we know, this rule change had the opposite affect in that the bowlers concerned totally rejected the new format and stayed away from the 2007 National Championships. The Walter De Veer Memorial Tournament was axed after the 2007 event.
Now in 2008, contrary to the ASC recommendations, we see the re-introduction of as state versus state handicapped event at the annual National Championships.
TBA axed a long standing successful state versus state handicapped event, on the grounds that ASC funding would be at risk if the event continued to be part of the nationals.
My question to the TBA is why has this decision been reversed and at what risk to funding, if any?

Allegedly under the instructions of the ASC.
The question is, was the ASC ever really involved? We only had the word of the now discredited previous CEO.
If that was the case and the ASC never were involved then De Veer was axed for no proper reason.
Furthermore if TBA can reintroduce a handicapped event without upsetting their funding, then they can also reintroduce the 2 State Team status - North/South - for Queensland, instead of Qld being stuck with their ridiculous official/invitational team status.

I would dearly love answers to the above and I know of quite a few people who would like this answered also.

Liz Fabian-Czmok

 

[squealer]

Re: Questions for the TBA @ the AGM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Coburn View Post
Allegedly under the instructions of the ASC, at the October 2006 TBA State Managers meeting, the TBA State Managers elected to re-format the Walter De Veer Memorial Tournament into a similar centre versus centre competition in order to increase and promote participation at the annual National Championships.
As we know, this rule change had the opposite affect in that the bowlers concerned totally rejected the new format and stayed away from the 2007 National Championships. The Walter De Veer Memorial Tournament was axed after the 2007 event.
Now in 2008, contrary to the ASC recommendations, we see the re-introduction of as state versus state handicapped event at the annual National Championships.
TBA axed a long standing successful state versus state handicapped event, on the grounds that ASC funding would be at risk if the event continued to be part of the nationals.
My question to the TBA is why has this decision been reversed and at what risk to funding, if any?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew S. View Post
Allegedly under the instructions of the ASC.
The question is, was the ASC ever really involved? We only had the word of the now discredited previous CEO.
If that was the case and the ASC never were involved then De Veer was axed for no proper reason.
Furthermore if TBA can reintroduce a handicapped event without upsetting their funding, then they can also reintroduce the 2 State Team status - North/South - for Queensland, instead of Qld being stuck with their ridiculous official/invitational team status.

I am with you Liz l would also like to have the questions answered. Can anyone please give us the right answers to these questions?

Sue Wheeler

 

[burdekinsnow]

I am not sure if this is the right forum for this question as it relates to Juniors however I am sure that it applies to the Seniors as well. I took my son to his first junior nationals in Brisbane. He bowled his all events as he wanted to try to qualify for the Restricted Masters and I must admit dad was proud when he did that. But my question relates to administration costs which were charged per event, I cant remember the exact figure but it was in the range of $6 - $7 per event. Then to qualify for the Restricted Masters there was a further fee of $10, then $100 for the successful bowlers to bowl just 8 games. Now I realise that an administration fees must be paid but why is it the same for each entry to a National Tournament?? Why is it not the administration fee for the fist entry into singles, doubles etc and then a reduced fee for every event thereafter. Ive had my 2 cents worth but after reading most of the post in this thread two things stand out. First that our sport is expensive across the board ie: The game, equipment etc and I dont think much is going to change that. But more importantly is the money we pay in administration costs is returned to the bowling community in Value For Money

 

[JWhitty]

$6 per event is not a lot of income, and is probably actually pretty close to the actual cost - TBA has often run at a loss with these events at such a low fee.

Would you take two weeks off work, pay your own accommodation, pay your own costs (such as food), for the 'pleasure' of running that event? The reality is, the tournament team really does deserve to have their costs covered for their efforts.

I am the Holt TD this year, I'm going to forfeit $5120 of potential gross income over that period (if I'd gone to work in stead). As much as I'm happy to give back to the sport, I would not do it if I also had to pay out the next however much because it's just simply unaffordable then. Fortunately for Holt, we have no administration fee because it is covered in sponsorship dollars, so our events are fully returned to the bowlers (minus actual costs ie lineage)

Now I can't speak for TBA on the masters qualifying, but every time I've done a states we have added the qualifying fees into the prize pool without exception. Granted $100 for 8 games may seem steep, especially when you think of it as $50 above cost - but how many medallions, shirts, or prizes were paid back? I would expect 100% of that finals fee above the lineage was returned to the bowlers in cash or good (shirt, trophy).

If food at the bowl was cheaper, the tournament expenses could be lower. If lineage was cheaper, the whole entry could be cheaper... Point being the issue is a level deeper, the "tournament expense" fee must cover the higher costs involved these days.

As for equipment costs, for what you get it's not bad... I can go to max with $200 and come away with a pretty good ball, maybe not the best, but pretty good. Last time I walked through the Golf Connection here, $200 wouldn't but you an equivalent driver - in fact $1000 wouldn't buy it either. When you consider the sheer weight and therefore shipping costs, bowling balls are good value. In any case, TBA has no authority over equipment prices.

I'm not going to get into per game costs, because I'm not a center manager and I don't know where it's going, but again, TBA has no authority over lineage

So to sum it up, I think the question for Wayne to take forward is "How is the 'Tournament Expenses' spent?". I think this will be a good exercise in bowler education about what it actually takes to hold an event like this.

 

[Jasonguru]

getting this thread back on track! My question is this:
What will the TBA do with regards to attracting more bowlers to our sport and when will the TBA start to advertise our sport once again through mainstream advertising. eg, TV, radio, print etc??????????????
If in my opinion you want to revive something or boost sales or wat people to purchase your products and services, you need to advertise and make people aware and have the want to purchase that product or service!
Answer me that with an actual action plan to put the mechanism in place, and i think you will all find the beginning of a resurgence in our sport.

this is the question i want answered! i have not seen any indication that this or any of these questions will be answered at the AGM.

pardon my skepticism, but will this and all other questions posted here be answered, truthfully, detailed and even if at all!

 

[RobbieB]

Jason,
TBA as it stands cannot afford to advertise or promote tenpin bowling. Until people understand that TBA have to establish a workable income stream before they can commit to any programs to increase membership numbers across Australia, these sorts of questions are pointless.

 

[otty]

to andrew s please excuse my ignorance but what do we get for our 25 dollar a year sanction

 

[CSP]

Ok. here we go.

After reading all the posts. The winning posts goes to RobbieB titled Dear Mr. Centre Proprietor. You have hit the nail on the head.

TBA doesn't own or run any bowling centres therefore cannot dictate to proprietors how to operate their business and unfortunately for the TBA and passionate bowlers that want the sport to move forward. Business comes first.

1. Centre Lane Conditions cannot be monitored and be made to level with the National Tournament Lane Conditioning Policy. Centre proprietors and Managers will not allow this due to the fact of possible loss of revenue because average bowlers are not enjoying their high scoring games in league and quit the sport. Yes you can talk about coaching but that means the bowler spending more money to improve, most are there to play 3 games a week to enjoy a night out and be happy to make average.

Winners: The Bowlers, frustrated with the hard conditions and quits, saves his/her money and puts that to good use in other areas of their life that makes them happy.

Losers: TBA & The Centre, one loses a member of their sport and the other loses a paying customer to their business.

2. You're all talking about Memberships and price increases to the bowlers. At $12.50 per bowler, not all bowlers in the Country are paying that fee, some leagues are unsanctioned therefore bowlers don't have to pay, that makes them happy because they know you receive nothing for it. TBA will lose more memberships due to leagues going unsanctioned or bowlers leaving the sport if prices are increased to $25.00-$40.00 per membership. The best way to increase membership numbers would be the centres going back to blanket sanctioning where the centre proprietor pays for the number of league players competing in their centre. TBA can give a rebate percentage back to the centre based upon reaching 250, 500, 750, 1000 league bowlers. This can be monitored by centres sending TBA the list of bowlers registered and the list of leagues in the centre. The target for the membership rebate would give incentive to the proprietor/manager to increase his league bowler database, that means more dollars to the centre based on lineage and to the TBA based on membership numbers.

3. I have worked in bowling centres for a long time and for the past 5 years, maybe longer I have never seen or received a call that a TBA Representative will be coming into the centre to measure the lanes. If representatives are getting paid for this job, where are they?

4. Jasonguru's post about advertising the sport is spot on. TBA need to invest some dollars into a national TV campaign about the sport, get the public interested in the sport (eg: letting the public know how fun it is, becoming a league champion, you can represent your local centre and state). AMF have a TV campaign but it's a recreational ad about getting to your local AMF centre to enjoy a bowling plus food deal, disco lighting and the latest music. Their advertising campaign has no attraction to the public that tenpin bowling is a sport. That's TBA's position.

On the downside to any advertising. Advertising companies can make the advert look and sound spectacular to attract the customer to the product they're trying to sell and promote, don't expect the customer to return if your product does not live upto the top notch advert they saw or listen to on TV/radio, (eg: enjoy themselves, staff knowledge of the product). Bowling centre staff and tournament officials/promoters needs to make sure that their product and service is quality to gain the repeat business.

5. Wayne, do you honestly think proprietors are going to offer a free learn to bowl sessions and make lanes unavailable to paying customers. I can tell you now that won't happen.

6. I totally agree with the age groups at Nationals. This suggestion was in my written report to the previous CEO with no response. I believe we can start this at the State Championships of each state.

(a) Each centre that would like to participate has a roll off for their divisional age groups (teams of 7) to represent their centre at the State Championships.

(b) The State Championships are held over two weeks. Week 1 allowing U8's to U12's to compete in all events and the age group state challenge over a total amount of games. Week 2 allowing U13's to U18's to compete in the same way. Nationals are usually in school holidays of the hosting state, so each state can do the same by choosing a school holiday period to host their state championships and students competing don't miss vital education.

(c) The state Championships still host the traditional Restricted, Classic and Open Masters as well.

I have spent hours reading the posts and typing together my view on some interesting questions, I will now sign off. Before that I would like to answer RobbieB's latest response. I agree TBA need a workable income stream, but also need to cut back on unnecessary expenses.

Regards,
Christian Purdue

 

[alexnjudy]

What TBAL needs is a PAID marketing executive who will be solely responsible to PROMOTE THE GAME and to bring in MAJOR sponsors for our sport. Every other sports can do it. I don't see why we can't. You shall reap what you sow. Just like every business, you need to advertise and promote...be it on T.V or radio. Get someone like Joe Tomasinski who is not only passionate about our sport but he is also a good business man.
Good luck with this endeavor Wayne.
Now for the facts. If you raise the current membership fees....be prepared to lose more members.
Regards,
Alex

 

[steve jones]

AlexNJudy - FYI and for 3-4 years in the early 1990's the ATBC had a full time Manager Marketing and Media - responsibilities included [but were not limited to] driving membership programs [115,000 members approx at that time], developing sponsorship packages and related activities, addressing all media activity including regular tournament screenings on commercial TV and weekly newspaper columns and articles - along with publishing a members newspaper, directing funding support and the development of In-Schools programs etc etc - the list was long indeed. At the time - this persons salary was 100% paid thanks to the generous support of AMF - other expenses [travel and relevant budgets] were covered by the ATBC. Perhaps somehow - and once again - the industry could again support this position in some manner - once the new TBA management finds it's feet - and to this end, they must be given time to do so...the list of issues will be long I should think - and setting the priority tasks in order will take some skill.

 

[mannyzog]

Well christian # 4 Advertising,its how you get new bowlers,centre staff are responsible to sign up new bowlers.So without the social ads how on earth are you to get new bowlers in your doors.
#5 Our centre has 3 FREE coaching days where anyone is able to attend but only the young turn up.We also allow anyone to come and bowl for free on instructor mat then they have a game at practise rate.There is always times in the day and some nights that anyone can practise if they really want to.
As for bowlers being the marketing executives I can only say we were recently told how good a centre was in melbourne by an established bowler. So with that we went into 8 different centres in and on the way to melbourne.
We were not only disgusted with about 4 of them I can say only 1 out of all the centres had more than 4 people in them.At least 4 of them we were not even approached by staff. In one very large centre it was that dirty with bins not empty dirty glass and empty chip packets still on the tables a jumper that had been left behind a discrace to the owner and its staff.
Point I want to make is that bowlers just dont see the same as someone who is a true marketing person.Our bowl has more sposorship from local business than ever and has had social play and leagues grow with more tournaments than ever promotions every month with prizes for league bowlers our SKINS the richerst in AUSTRALIA.I maybe should add that our MARKETING and bowl MANAGER had never been in a bowl before being given the job now the bowl owners are reaping the rewards along with the bowlers.