Questions for the TBA @ the AGM

[Shoey]

Shoey and others talking about keeping the Elite Juniors in the Game. Here's the Facts of Life, when they reach the Adult status and are earning thier own Money, they always find other things to spend it on, Cars, Girls, Drink, its all good when Mommy and Daddy are spending thier Precious Mullah but when the real world hits they always disappear from the Game. This I have observed over 40 years, the only time I seen a follow through of Juniors was when the age was increased to 21, than we had the likes of Fred Alsopp and a few Bowlers of his Generation come through.

So the Bottom line is, the Game is too Expensive!

willey

understand completely, mum and dad earning full wages. son or daughter start working, minimum hourly rate wages needs stuff to start life of their own, somethings got to give and unfortunately its the expensive sport. Fred Alsopp is a classic example of the sport pricing an absolute champion out of the game.

good point Willey

 

[wchester]

yeah you are, you've been asked questions, have PM'd the poster of those questions and not advised the rest of us of those answers. why?

I haven't answered Andrew's questions yet. Still working out the details. Hopefully by tomorrow afternoon, after I get done with my volunteer coaching at the bowl.

 

[Grant61]

Wayne, correct me if I am wrong, but it's not the TBA board members who will decide if you get on the board, rather the 15 State National voting delegates at the AGM.

If you really want to get on the board, you should lobby each of the State Associations to gain their votes!

Once the board is formed, then a chairperson is elected by the board.

 

[Easy Tiger]

I have a question for the TBA board Wayne:

Why hasn't the TBA put a restriction on league and centre conditions and enforced this for honour scores? The obvious benefit of this is threefold.

1) It brings back some integrity to the "sport" in the eyes of both the serious players, and the public.

2) It narrows the gap between league and tournament play and learning how to equip bowlers to compete on tournament conditions.

3) If all centres have to comply to a national lane regulation, it eliminates the issue of house X down the road taking house Y's bowlers because one centre is laying easy conditions and the other is doing it's bit for the sport. It puts all centres on a level playing field. If a centre does not comply, it should not be TBA sanctioned.

 

[Grant61]

Tim,
Do you really think a centre condition policy is achievable! Maybe you can answer these questions:
1. Who is going to set the policy?
2. Who is going to review and confirm the patterns in each centre conform to policy?
3. How does TBA monitor lane conditions in 138 registered centres around Australia?
4. How many times in one year does TBA check the centre's lanes?
5. What's stopping a centre changing the pattern after TBA have taped the lanes?
6. Who is going to pay for the staff to perform this task?
7. Can you tell me any other country in the world, where the National body controls the pattern a centre lays down?
8. Why do you think the average league bowler or member of the public believe the sport has a lack of integrity?

 

[Easy Tiger]

Grant61,

Do you want the game to remain in the state it is?

If yes, continue thinking that way.

If no, and want to see the sport resume it's status, then lose that thinking and support make something happen.

Am am sick and tired of hearing this "we can't because of a..b..c....."

To answer the questions:

1. Who is going to set the policy?
What is the TBA there for if not to make these decisions?

2. Who is going to review and confirm the patterns in each centre conform to policy?
What is the TBA there for if not to make these decisions?

3. How does TBA monitor lane conditions in 138 registered centres around Australia?
I believe it used to be done once upon a time in the US, correct me if I am wrong. If they can do it over there, I am sure we could here.

4. How many times in one year does TBA check the centre's lanes?
Correct me again if I am wrong, but the lanes themselves are measured by TBA now? So it makes sense the conditions would be verfied at the same time?

5. What's stopping a centre changing the pattern after TBA have taped the lanes?
The threat of random checks. Associations could check patterns too.

6. Who is going to pay for the staff to perform this task?
The same people that pay for TBA representatives to measure lanes now?

7. Can you tell me any other country in the world, where the National body controls the pattern a centre lays down?
Regulates, not controls. A centre can lay whatever it wants, within the specific regulations. As above, I believe the US used to do this once.

8. Why do you think the average league bowler or member of the public believe the sport has a lack of integrity?
Noone takes the sport seriously. Go out on the street and ask. How about trying to getting it into the Olympics? They can't, basically because it lacks public appeal and also because there is less emphasis on skill and more on technology in today's game.

 

[paul269]

i agree with you easy tiger...
you raise a good argument and good points...
i know the center i bowl on lays a much harder pattern than some of the other centers near me...
a few other bowlers i bowl with average about 20 pins higher in other centers where the pattern laid is much more basic...
if all house pattern were more similar it would eliminate people trying to bowl on the easy conditions and then thinking they are really good...
only to go and bowl on a hard condition and have their entire game fall apart...
because they cant figure out what to do...

 

[griggsy]

couldnt agree with you more tim. regulating all the centres oil patterns is something that MUST be done. i don't mean making every centr go from cakewalk to the us open but make the lanes tougher. that being said don't make it that dramatic change that everyone ges screw this i'm quitting but make it a slight difference like it for instance drops the centres avergae by like ten pins. that's not a huge drop and not too damaging to alot of peoples gos but it also is a stepping stone to getting people to adjust to harder patterns while allowing them to still be able to shoot decent numbers and be happy with bowling still.

in my opinion this is the best point brought up in this thread and really needs to be enforced by any of the potential chairpersons. i honestly think it would go along way with taking this sport back to the " glory days"

 

[RobbieB]

Dear Mr Centre Proprietor,
Thank you for investing your money and time to provide a venue where TBA members can enjoy their bowling.
You may have noticed that scoring within the sport of bowling has been on an upward trend over the past few years. Rather than try to control the scoring pace by means within our control, such as reviewing the allowable limits on the dynamic properties of bowling balls and the materials they are made of, we have decided to make you responsible for reducing scores by telling you how to oil your property.
Since it is very easy to change oil patterns just by pressing a few buttons on th machine, this change will be very simple to implement. Since all of the centres are run by people who care only about the sport, and not making sure they don't go broke, losing all those bowlers who don't want to see their average drop by 15 pins a game won't worry you. Especially since all of your competitors share your noble vision and wouldn't dream of stealing your aggrieved bowlers by ignoring our directive. After all, if they do, they won't be sanctioned, thus losing the 3.7 bowlers per centre who actually care about whether they are TBA sanctioned.
Since we don't have the manpower to police the policy, we will have to charge you for the inspections. Grin and bear it, its for the good of the sport. And just remember, when the customers complain, its all for the good of the sport.

 

[Grant61]

Tim
I can understand you points in what you are try to acheive, but regardless of them being right or wrong, it all comes down to one word, FUNDING!
TBA may be able to write a policy, but there is certainly no one on staff that could review patterns for 138 centres.
Not all bowling centres have their lanes measured every year. Only centres that are "Ranked centres" are required to have their lanes certified every year. This certification is conducted by TBA registered lane measurers and paid for by the centres.
Random checks could be conducted by State Assoications, but how many Associations own a lane anylser or have the funds to purchase one at around $2000. Once having one, who pays for a certified lane person to come and tape the lanes, the centre?
Expecting TBA to provide services is all great, but how can they do this with $12.50 from each adult registered player.
Then of course we could just keep charging the centres for these services, and in the finish who do you think will pay for it! The bowlers in their league fees.
The USBC does not regulate what patterns, instead they define leagues. In fact they don't think these high scoring patterns cause a problem with the integrity at all. USBC endores the following: Taken from the USBC
Multiple levels of play
Regarding lane conditions in a general sense, USBC endorses the concept of multiple levels of play in bowling. The sport can take place as a recreation and on lane conditions in USBC-certified competition that allow for high and low scoring paces.
For example, standard USBC leagues often have lane conditions with as much as a 20:1 oil ratio which can result in a high scoring pace as the extreme differences in friction on the lane act to artificially steer bowling balls to the pocket. Lane conditions in USBC Sport Bowling events – which include most of today’s premier bowling tournaments, including all four of the Professional Bowlers Association majors – are at most a 3:1 ratio. This can result in a more challenging scoring environment because the absence of extreme differences in friction areas on the lane virtually negates the steering effect on the ball.
“Multiple levels of the sport don't diminish credibility,” said USBC Chief Executive Officer Roger Dalkin. “They only define the type of competition. It is okay to have different levels such as Sport, standard and bumper bowling.”
As for the Olympic argument, it's as much about the politics as it is about the bowling! There are alot of other sports with a higher profile than bowling, that are not Olympic sports!
As for the lack of public appeal, that is not quite correct. It's still one of the highest participation sports in the country, but is considered a "recreation activity" and having been involved in the sport for over thirty five years, I can assure you lane conditions has nothing to do with changing this mind set!

 

[Jasonguru]

getting this thread back on track! My question is this:

What will the TBA do with regards to attracting more bowlers to our sport and when will the TBA start to advertise our sport once again through mainstream advertising. eg, TV, radio, print etc??????????????

If in my opinion you want to revive something or boost sales or wat people to purchase your products and services, you need to advertise and make people aware and have the want to purchase that product or service!

Answer me that with an actual action plan to put the mechanism in place, and i think you will all find the beginning of a resurgence in our sport.

 

[Easy Tiger]

Dear Mr Centre Proprietor,
Thank you for investing your money and time to provide a venue where TBA members can enjoy their bowling.
You may have noticed that scoring within the sport of bowling has been on an upward trend over the past few years. Rather than try to control the scoring pace by means within our control, such as reviewing the allowable limits on the dynamic properties of bowling balls and the materials they are made of, we have decided to make you responsible for reducing scores by telling you how to oil your property.
Since it is very easy to change oil patterns just by pressing a few buttons on th machine, this change will be very simple to implement. Since all of the centres are run by people who care only about the sport, and not making sure they don't go broke, losing all those bowlers who don't want to see their average drop by 15 pins a game won't worry you. Especially since all of your competitors share your noble vision and wouldn't dream of stealing your aggrieved bowlers by ignoring our directive. After all, if they do, they won't be sanctioned, thus losing the 3.7 bowlers per centre who actually care about whether they are TBA sanctioned.
Since we don't have the manpower to police the policy, we will have to charge you for the inspections. Grin and bear it, its for the good of the sport. And just remember, when the customers complain, its all for the good of the sport.

Well in that case I think the sport part of bowling is screwed, because your average Joe has next to no chance of ever being able to make the step up to the highest level if they only ever get to inflate their egos and reward bad habits on walls.

In the meantime, let's wait for the next thread asking "why aren't bowlers supporting [insert national tournament name here]".

 

[wchester]

So how about I ask you to answer the really important questions such as
What would you make the membership fee?
How would you allocate that membership money?
What would you do to increase membership numbers?
What would you do to revive flagging State and National Championships?
I've got lots of other questions but that should keep you going for now.

I believe our current membership fee is too low at $12.50
It should probably be within the range of $25-$40. The added monies will enable the TBA to hire paid professionals for a number of positions, one of which would be a newly formed position of membership aquisition and services.

I don't know what it's like in Brisbane, but here in Bendigo there really isn't much effort put forth in getting league bowlers to purchase TBA memberships/registration cards. It's more of an afterthought. I purchased my card early in the year but it wasn't until 5-6 weeks after the league season began, that the local association rep came by asking the league members "did you want to get a card" No real effort was made and there was no persistance in the effort.

I'd also like to see the TBA give something tangible back to the average bowler in return for their membership dues. There is no reason why we cannot issue awards (chevrons and certificates/plaques) for all levels of bowling. The awards programme was discontinued a few years ago for reasons I am not privvy to, but the cost of say 30,000 chevrons/certificates wouldn't be out of our reach with our new membership fee structure.

 

[Peter Coburn]

My Question for the TBA @ the AGM

Allegedly under the instructions of the ASC, at the October 2006 TBA State Managers meeting, the TBA State Managers elected to re-format the Walter De Veer Memorial Tournament into a similar centre versus centre competition in order to increase and promote participation at the annual National Championships.

As we know, this rule change had the opposite affect in that the bowlers concerned totally rejected the new format and stayed away from the 2007 National Championships. The Walter De Veer Memorial Tournament was axed after the 2007 event.

Now in 2008, contrary to the ASC recommendations, we see the re-introduction of as state versus state handicapped event at the annual National Championships.

TBA axed a long standing successful state versus state handicapped event, on the grounds that ASC funding would be at risk if the event continued to be part of the nationals.

My question to the TBA is why has this decision been reversed and at what risk to funding, if any?

 

[Andrew S.]

Allegedly under the instructions of the ASC.

The question is, was the ASC ever really involved? We only had the word of the now discredited previous CEO.
If that was the case and the ASC never were involved then De Veer was axed for no proper reason.

Furthermore if TBA can reintroduce a handicapped event without upsetting their funding, then they can also reintroduce the 2 State Team status - North/South - for Queensland, instead of Qld being stuck with their ridiculous official/invitational team status.

 

[dishman]

]

Well in that case I think the sport part of bowling is screwed, because your average Joe has next to no chance of ever being able to make the step up to the highest level if they only ever get to inflate their egos and reward bad habits on walls.
In the meantime, let's wait for the next thread asking "why aren't bowlers supporting [insert national tournament name here]".

Easy Tiger, "average Joe" isn't interested in taking his game to the next level. He/she's there to have a great time with his mates.
Out of all the league bowlers i'm guessing less than 5% have the drive to take their game to the national level. Those that are keen can always approach centre managers/techs etc and ask to have a tougher pattern laid down for practice at atime that is convenient for both parties. Sure it may cost a bit extra, that that's the price you will have to pay. If your centre won't accomodate, i'm sure you can find another one that will. BTW, its still possible to practice/hone your game on a walled shot.

 

[dishman]

Dear Mr Centre Proprietor,
Thank you for investing your money and time to provide a venue where TBA members can enjoy their bowling.
You may have noticed that scoring within the sport of bowling has been on an upward trend over the past few years. Rather than try to control the scoring pace by means within our control, such as reviewing the allowable limits on the dynamic properties of bowling balls and the materials they are made of, we have decided to make you responsible for reducing scores by telling you how to oil your property.
Since it is very easy to change oil patterns just by pressing a few buttons on th machine, this change will be very simple to implement. Since all of the centres are run by people who care only about the sport, and not making sure they don't go broke, losing all those bowlers who don't want to see their average drop by 15 pins a game won't worry you. Especially since all of your competitors share your noble vision and wouldn't dream of stealing your aggrieved bowlers by ignoring our directive. After all, if they do, they won't be sanctioned, thus losing the 3.7 bowlers per centre who actually care about whether they are TBA sanctioned.
Since we don't have the manpower to police the policy, we will have to charge you for the inspections. Grin and bear it, its for the good of the sport. And just remember, when the customers complain, its all for the good of the sport.

LOL That's one of the funniest posts i've read in a while.

 

[desmondo]

How to keep people in bowling and/or promote the sport? Questions for the TBA Board?
I go back to an idea I floated on this site a little while ago.

Only the best 7 under 18 boys and girls can make the State team each year. Almost every other sport invites the best of each age group (under 10, under 12, under 14 etc) to compete each year. Why is bowling different?

The best sports (international performance and participation levels) we have in this country have aged based interstate competitions. Why doesn't bowling?

My son went to the junior nationals recently and averaged well over 150 as a 12yo. Where does that leave him compared to others of his age? The chance of him making the state team at 12 or 13 is very low. When he does make it, then he is expected to compete against kids 4 or 5 years older than him. Not much incentive to try until it might be too late.

Why don't we get these kids at a young age competing against each other? Top level and close competition inspire, they do not hinder. Having kids able to compete against the best in the country (18 and under if they are good enough, or their own age) must bring more into the sport and keep them there longer.

Why not have international 14 and under representation? Most other sports have it, why not us?

Everyone knows that juniors lead the future direction of the sport. Many parents either pick up bowling or rejoin if their kids get into the sport. etc etc etc

Good luck Wayne and whoever else might be standing. whoever wins, please take a fresh approach because the old one (despite tremendous efforts) either hasn't worked or hasn't got the support of the bowling community.

Des

 

[Easy Tiger]

]
Easy Tiger, "average Joe" isn't interested in taking his game to the next level. He/she's there to have a great time with his mates.
Out of all the league bowlers i'm guessing less than 5% have the drive to take their game to the national level. Those that are keen can always approach centre managers/techs etc and ask to have a tougher pattern laid down for practice at atime that is convenient for both parties. Sure it may cost a bit extra, that that's the price you will have to pay. If your centre won't accomodate, i'm sure you can find another one that will. BTW, its still possible to practice/hone your game on a walled shot.

Dinesh,

Let me rephrase then. Your "fringe tournament bowler" has next to no chance of making the step up. I'm not talking about your Wednesday lunch time social league bowler, I'm talking about any bowler who takes the sport seriously and would be interested in trying to improve. No disrespect to any of them out there, but I am not talking about your 140 average bowler.

I am talking about those above 180 or so who would have some of the basic skills that could be improved to possibly compete at the highest level.

This is the last post I'll make on this as the one original question (which I believe is quite valid) I put forward is hijacking the thread.

Dinesh mate I tried getting custom conditions laid down when I worked at a couple of centres and it was like extracting teeth getting it to happen even when I worked there. It is just too hard because pretty much the only times I can ever get there aren't their "quiet times" or at least quiet enough to warrant laying a different pattern for one person. That was when I was a uni student. I work full-time now and as much as I want to keep working on my game, having to ask for tighter conditions is just too much. Tighter conditions should be part of the game as standard regulation, not as a favour for a couple of people trying to take their game further.

In the meantime, the game continues to suffer.

I applaud your effort Wayne and best of luck, but mate you sure face an uphill battle turning around things in this country. Nobody likes change, as much as they complain about how bad things have got.

 

[GeorgeF]

He's some questions

Are we sending a Mens Team to World Championships this year?
If so, what is the criteria to make the team?
When will it be selected?
How much will the trip cost?