Bowlin_in_Stlye
New Member
What do you think about owners of bowling alleys? do you think the bowling alley runs better if the owners are bowlers or if the owners have no bowling background what so ever???
Owners of Bowling Alleys
- Thread starter Bowlin_in_Stlye
- Start date
double_d
Member
i worked in a bowling alley where although i dont know a lot about the persons history
he seemed to have very limited bowling experience
although he learned quite a lot over the years he owned it
this was a very good atmosphere to work in and bowl in
and i dont expect to ever bowl in a alley with the same feel ever again
good times
daniel d
he seemed to have very limited bowling experience
although he learned quite a lot over the years he owned it
this was a very good atmosphere to work in and bowl in
and i dont expect to ever bowl in a alley with the same feel ever again
good times
daniel d
I don't think it's that black and white. I'm going to continue here with your context of run, ie referring to the manager and not the owner, as I'm sure MLG don't give a damn what the manager's doing as long as the targets are met.
Obviously a bowler should be more in touch with what the league bowlers want, but that can be a bad thing also. Consider a centre run by a lower average bowler who likes to ditch it up so he can score, that'd be no fun for the higher averages.
From a local example, Brett Smith runs AMF Tuggeranong and I've seen Brett get right into issues that a non-bowling manager wouldn't have realised were important (Great). Before Brett we had Lloyd Klaman who when he started reportedly said "Bowling's a game, Basketball's a sport". Personally I quite liked having Lloyd in the office, the place ran well, he listened to the bowlers a lot I felt.
In this day of AMF's profit-driven company goals, I don't think it's very relevant because if they want to keep their job, they need to run the business first (Social play...)
Obviously a bowler should be more in touch with what the league bowlers want, but that can be a bad thing also. Consider a centre run by a lower average bowler who likes to ditch it up so he can score, that'd be no fun for the higher averages.
From a local example, Brett Smith runs AMF Tuggeranong and I've seen Brett get right into issues that a non-bowling manager wouldn't have realised were important (Great). Before Brett we had Lloyd Klaman who when he started reportedly said "Bowling's a game, Basketball's a sport". Personally I quite liked having Lloyd in the office, the place ran well, he listened to the bowlers a lot I felt.
In this day of AMF's profit-driven company goals, I don't think it's very relevant because if they want to keep their job, they need to run the business first (Social play...)
Bowlin_in_Stlye
New Member
in this case then should there be the manager wth no bowling experience employed for social bowling and a manager employed strictly to deal with leagues and tournaments with bowling experience?
No, don't think so.
I agree that at least one person needs to have a deal of bowling experience (similar to a pro shop operator at a golf club), but he/she does not necessarily need to be the manager.
Easy Tiger
Active Member
I think it is imperitive that a bowling centre manager has at least some experience in a sporting environment, whether in more junior roles or as an actual manager.
I've seen both types many times.
As for the owners - they have to be interested in progressing both the social and sport aspects of the game. I've seen both sides of that too..
I've seen both types many times.
As for the owners - they have to be interested in progressing both the social and sport aspects of the game. I've seen both sides of that too..
MinusZero
>LOAD "Something",8,1
Bowlers should definitely own centres. My centre is owned by a businessman not a bowler and as such it is so hard to get the centre to do anything for the bowlers. They also dont care if their equipment damages your ball. not even so much as a sorry...nevermind offering to resurface or fix the ball.
I bowled a tournament recently elsewhere in a centre owned by a bowler and the service and the way the centre was run was so superior.
I bowled a tournament recently elsewhere in a centre owned by a bowler and the service and the way the centre was run was so superior.
Tiger
Active Member
Preferably you'd want one who takes the time to work on both the League and social aspects of the centre and one who doesn't neglect one side totally at the expense of the other, makes no difference really whether they are from a bowling or non-bowling background as long as they know their stuff.
Great centres run both very well.
A manager who is visible in presence, leads from the front and takes the time to get know to his loyal customers, meet, greet and listen to what they have to say.
I'm quite sure if you asked most of the bowlers in our centre who the current manager is, they wouldn't know his name let alone what he even looks like.
"But as long as the money's raked in, monthly targets are met who cares if everything's overpriced, the aircon's f*cked, the place is filthy, the toilets don't work properly for weeks on end, the lane conditions are a joke........."
Great centres run both very well.
A manager who is visible in presence, leads from the front and takes the time to get know to his loyal customers, meet, greet and listen to what they have to say.
I'm quite sure if you asked most of the bowlers in our centre who the current manager is, they wouldn't know his name let alone what he even looks like.
"But as long as the money's raked in, monthly targets are met who cares if everything's overpriced, the aircon's f*cked, the place is filthy, the toilets don't work properly for weeks on end, the lane conditions are a joke........."
Bowling Balls Australia
Sponsor
"Quote: "The reason we are "bowlers" is we can't do anything else". This a comment stated to me some 12 months ago by one of Qld's better bowlers."
I have been saying this for over 2 years now, and I won't waver from the theory. I am bound to offend some people with a couple of my comments, and if I do, I most humbly apologise, however if I do offend you PERSONALLY, have a real good think whether my theory may be right.............
Most centre managers and proshop managers are "bowlers" who have no life except for bowling. They hover around the proshop and the front counter as they have nothing else to do in life. I can cite MANY examples. They may not be the "brightest star in the sky", but as they are the keenest..........
Consequently, when a position becomes available, they are the first considered. The unfortunate thing is, the people they are replacing are none the wiser, ie you buy this brand from A, you buy this brand from B, and etc. The fact that we, alongside other suppliers, are somewhat cheaper and supply a far better delivery service, goes un-noticed because the new person has been told to buy from A or B, they are not encouraged or given the latitude to look outside the square in either buying or selling the product range................This is the unfortunate thing when you have 'bowlers' stepping up into managerial positions. Many do not have the personality or 'approach' to be better salespersons/managers.
The best centre managers are invariably NOT "bowlers", they are experienced &/or qualified business people who have an appreciation of the sport, not necessarily 'card bowlers'and can balance the needs of their centre and it's core business - league bowlers. An example of this is Lloyd Klaman, regional manager of AMF Vic and Tasmania. We discussed this at length several months ago, and of recent times, Lloyd's centres are making record profits, simply because he is looking after the league bowlers as his first priority, and at the same time encouraging social bowlers to bowl more, hence giving centre staff more opportunity to recruit.
A person with balance is what is required, someone who can weigh up the reasonable needs of the 'league bowler', as against the need to be the 'super recruiter' and the social bowler host/hostess. A person whom runs a proshop and says 'X amount of dollars' is a great month as against someone who says 40% of $10,000 is not good enough, same as a centre which has $1 million turnover at 30%, as against the centre which has $300,000 turnover at 55%. The opportunities must be properly surveyed by an experienced business person or one with the relevant qualifications ie a 'financial and business advisor', and not left to someone with a great bowling knowledge, but no business experience or qualification.
To purchase a product, manage a product, promote the product range, price the product, sell the product PROPERLY...... is a great skill, but is dependant on having the 'right people in the right places'. I strongly feel that a person with either qualifications or significant (outside the bowling industry) business experience, who can market the product, and may only be a one night a week league bowler....is a far better propositon than a 'bowler' who has come up 'through the ranks' in the same 'stagnant process'.
Sorry for the bluntness, however this thread has gone on too long with comments and opinions from people too inexperienced or unqualified to make a balanced statement. There are of course several examples of proshop managers/centre managers who are doing an outstanding job of both, being a 'bowler' and using their nous to look maybe 'outside the square' - you know who you are, so please do not think of my comments as directed at you.
If you find my comments too harsh, please have a good think about how many of your centre staff and managers would you trust to manage YOUR multi million dollar business.
Max
I have been saying this for over 2 years now, and I won't waver from the theory. I am bound to offend some people with a couple of my comments, and if I do, I most humbly apologise, however if I do offend you PERSONALLY, have a real good think whether my theory may be right.............
Most centre managers and proshop managers are "bowlers" who have no life except for bowling. They hover around the proshop and the front counter as they have nothing else to do in life. I can cite MANY examples. They may not be the "brightest star in the sky", but as they are the keenest..........
Consequently, when a position becomes available, they are the first considered. The unfortunate thing is, the people they are replacing are none the wiser, ie you buy this brand from A, you buy this brand from B, and etc. The fact that we, alongside other suppliers, are somewhat cheaper and supply a far better delivery service, goes un-noticed because the new person has been told to buy from A or B, they are not encouraged or given the latitude to look outside the square in either buying or selling the product range................This is the unfortunate thing when you have 'bowlers' stepping up into managerial positions. Many do not have the personality or 'approach' to be better salespersons/managers.
The best centre managers are invariably NOT "bowlers", they are experienced &/or qualified business people who have an appreciation of the sport, not necessarily 'card bowlers'and can balance the needs of their centre and it's core business - league bowlers. An example of this is Lloyd Klaman, regional manager of AMF Vic and Tasmania. We discussed this at length several months ago, and of recent times, Lloyd's centres are making record profits, simply because he is looking after the league bowlers as his first priority, and at the same time encouraging social bowlers to bowl more, hence giving centre staff more opportunity to recruit.
A person with balance is what is required, someone who can weigh up the reasonable needs of the 'league bowler', as against the need to be the 'super recruiter' and the social bowler host/hostess. A person whom runs a proshop and says 'X amount of dollars' is a great month as against someone who says 40% of $10,000 is not good enough, same as a centre which has $1 million turnover at 30%, as against the centre which has $300,000 turnover at 55%. The opportunities must be properly surveyed by an experienced business person or one with the relevant qualifications ie a 'financial and business advisor', and not left to someone with a great bowling knowledge, but no business experience or qualification.
To purchase a product, manage a product, promote the product range, price the product, sell the product PROPERLY...... is a great skill, but is dependant on having the 'right people in the right places'. I strongly feel that a person with either qualifications or significant (outside the bowling industry) business experience, who can market the product, and may only be a one night a week league bowler....is a far better propositon than a 'bowler' who has come up 'through the ranks' in the same 'stagnant process'.
Sorry for the bluntness, however this thread has gone on too long with comments and opinions from people too inexperienced or unqualified to make a balanced statement. There are of course several examples of proshop managers/centre managers who are doing an outstanding job of both, being a 'bowler' and using their nous to look maybe 'outside the square' - you know who you are, so please do not think of my comments as directed at you.
If you find my comments too harsh, please have a good think about how many of your centre staff and managers would you trust to manage YOUR multi million dollar business.
Max
Black Duck
user
Anyone can provide ordinary service it is the special people and companies who can provide extraordinary service
In any hospitality and service business if you are not "Customer Focussed"
you will not be in business for very long. (Not rocket science)
Operating a bowling centre or selling bowling product, there are dozens and dozens of others servicing the same product in the same market, the question is what is the point of differentiation between the supplier/provider?
Answer, the customer (you and I) will always go back to the person or company we believed serviced our individual needs and listened to what we as the customer wanted and not what they wanted to sell or provide.
Price or cost is not always the issue, if you receive exceptional service you are often happy to pay that little bit more
In summary Ten Pin Bowling Centres are a business and no one goes into business to break even or lose money, the people charged with the responsiblity have stakeholders and investors to answer to, but also there is a fine balance to be considered because there is a little person in corner waving their hand who is the "Customer" and without them no money will be made by anyone
In any hospitality and service business if you are not "Customer Focussed"
you will not be in business for very long. (Not rocket science)
Operating a bowling centre or selling bowling product, there are dozens and dozens of others servicing the same product in the same market, the question is what is the point of differentiation between the supplier/provider?
Answer, the customer (you and I) will always go back to the person or company we believed serviced our individual needs and listened to what we as the customer wanted and not what they wanted to sell or provide.
Price or cost is not always the issue, if you receive exceptional service you are often happy to pay that little bit more
In summary Ten Pin Bowling Centres are a business and no one goes into business to break even or lose money, the people charged with the responsiblity have stakeholders and investors to answer to, but also there is a fine balance to be considered because there is a little person in corner waving their hand who is the "Customer" and without them no money will be made by anyone
jason_doust
The Bowling Geek
I think Geoff Bowness is on the money about it being a matter of education at all levels. As an independent proprietor said to me recently, (I won't name him without his permission) it's about giving service to customers at all levels.
Families having birthday parties will pay a bit more for great service. Serious players will play at quiet times (odd hours) to get cheap game rates or a sport pattern laid down. There's a dozen other marketing mixes that could be made to work.
Families having birthday parties will pay a bit more for great service. Serious players will play at quiet times (odd hours) to get cheap game rates or a sport pattern laid down. There's a dozen other marketing mixes that could be made to work.
walkbluepig
New Member
To Strike a balance between the needs of leagues and the social bowlers wants is what all centres should strife for, do this and the profits look after themselves.
When I was a Centre Proprietor at Bunbury with my now ex wife, she took care of the day to day business of running the centre, with myself as President of the local association I would ensure the league bowlers were looked after.
We had the two fold experiences of both being bowlers and myself coming from an accounting and hospitality background, with my ex wife having been AMF trained previously had the necesary skills to assume the role of Manager.
Both having the business acumen to find the balance required, with major decisions be undertaken by both of us.
Of most benefit was offering membership to the social bowlers at the same level as the league bowlers, targeting social bowlers, with the offer of cheaper games if they took out a membership.
Considering the high cost of social bowling the discounts received paid for the membership after only 2 or 3 return visits.
Social bowlers were never approached to join a league until they were
seen to be regulars, by then they were hooked.
With the money raised from these memberships going directly to the Association, tournaments could be subsidised and these new members were then targeted to compete in regular fun events, persuading them to join a league with its many social benefits was then made easier.
The above example is just one way the centre and association can work together for the benefit of both, that is another key reason for success of a centre the two must work together, where relationships are strained between the centre and its association there are no winners.
Owner operators need not necessarily be bowlers but they need to have customer service as their manager focus and have knowledgeable staff around them, look after your customers who having varying needs and wants, there will always be varying classes of customers in any business not just bowling, striking a balance to keep them all happy is the key to success.
Hopefully my ramblings haven't bored you all to much.
Cheers
RT
When I was a Centre Proprietor at Bunbury with my now ex wife, she took care of the day to day business of running the centre, with myself as President of the local association I would ensure the league bowlers were looked after.
We had the two fold experiences of both being bowlers and myself coming from an accounting and hospitality background, with my ex wife having been AMF trained previously had the necesary skills to assume the role of Manager.
Both having the business acumen to find the balance required, with major decisions be undertaken by both of us.
Of most benefit was offering membership to the social bowlers at the same level as the league bowlers, targeting social bowlers, with the offer of cheaper games if they took out a membership.
Considering the high cost of social bowling the discounts received paid for the membership after only 2 or 3 return visits.
Social bowlers were never approached to join a league until they were
seen to be regulars, by then they were hooked.
With the money raised from these memberships going directly to the Association, tournaments could be subsidised and these new members were then targeted to compete in regular fun events, persuading them to join a league with its many social benefits was then made easier.
The above example is just one way the centre and association can work together for the benefit of both, that is another key reason for success of a centre the two must work together, where relationships are strained between the centre and its association there are no winners.
Owner operators need not necessarily be bowlers but they need to have customer service as their manager focus and have knowledgeable staff around them, look after your customers who having varying needs and wants, there will always be varying classes of customers in any business not just bowling, striking a balance to keep them all happy is the key to success.
Hopefully my ramblings haven't bored you all to much.
Cheers
RT
Easy Tiger
Active Member
You've made a lot of sense in that post, a lot of good ideas. One of the most useless and irritating things I saw at AMF was recruiting being done at stupid times, like on a Friday or Saturday night, when the people they were trying to target were sloshed and didn't give a toss. Yet staff had to try and recruit, no ifs buts or maybes.
The social membership idea has a lot of merit - perhaps that could also extend to discounts at the cafe and on alcohol and soft drinks during social visits. Get them into that before "cold selling" league bowling to them, because the majority just aren't interested after 1 or 2 visits to a bowling centre!
The social membership idea has a lot of merit - perhaps that could also extend to discounts at the cafe and on alcohol and soft drinks during social visits. Get them into that before "cold selling" league bowling to them, because the majority just aren't interested after 1 or 2 visits to a bowling centre!
split happens
Member
I have worked for both bowlers and non bowlers.
I agree that the person has to have a good buisness head, regardless if they bowl or not.
Having knowledge of the industry is a big plus.
But how much do you need? Should you of worked the front counter for x amount of years, or should you have run the cafe.
Now a days most centres are looking at giving their customers more. Better video games, better food selection, a function room, in what area does the owner need the experience? If the owners employ department heads and a manager to compliment their strengths, then the centre can grow.
As for listening to bowlers, which ones?
The ones who complain there is no ditch so they look like they are a good bowler, the ones who complain everytime they walk into the centre about anything. The ones who complain about every little scratch on their ball even thou they put a dozen shots in the gutter. Or do you listen to the bowler who bowls 3 leagues a week over the bowler who bowls 1 league.
Remember, social bowlers pay more at one time, but league bowlers pay more over the year. Who's dollar is more important? Answer. Both. Every time they walk into the centre there money is the same as the person walking in behind them, regardless of who they are. If you treat them any other way, you are going to upset one of them. Treat them as equals as much as you can, treat them as people who have come to your centre to bowl, treat them as humans not cattle.
If you try to spend your time listening to every little problem, you never get any work done. It's a juggle that some people can't handle.
Solution, do you put on more staff, do you employ better staff and where do you find them?
Its an on going battle that has gone on for years and will do so for many more.
I agree that the person has to have a good buisness head, regardless if they bowl or not.
Having knowledge of the industry is a big plus.
But how much do you need? Should you of worked the front counter for x amount of years, or should you have run the cafe.
Now a days most centres are looking at giving their customers more. Better video games, better food selection, a function room, in what area does the owner need the experience? If the owners employ department heads and a manager to compliment their strengths, then the centre can grow.
As for listening to bowlers, which ones?
The ones who complain there is no ditch so they look like they are a good bowler, the ones who complain everytime they walk into the centre about anything. The ones who complain about every little scratch on their ball even thou they put a dozen shots in the gutter. Or do you listen to the bowler who bowls 3 leagues a week over the bowler who bowls 1 league.
Remember, social bowlers pay more at one time, but league bowlers pay more over the year. Who's dollar is more important? Answer. Both. Every time they walk into the centre there money is the same as the person walking in behind them, regardless of who they are. If you treat them any other way, you are going to upset one of them. Treat them as equals as much as you can, treat them as people who have come to your centre to bowl, treat them as humans not cattle.
If you try to spend your time listening to every little problem, you never get any work done. It's a juggle that some people can't handle.
Solution, do you put on more staff, do you employ better staff and where do you find them?
Its an on going battle that has gone on for years and will do so for many more.
L
lenny marsden
Arguably the most dynamic centre ever opened in Oz was Kedron and the owners of that centre were not bowling people. They were business men who saw what the market needed and provided it. Whne you walked into the centre it was always clean and tidy, there were always too many staff on shift, generally the cafe had 4 or 5 working in there, the control had "good" looking women in thier jumpsuits and a smile and they had 5 or 6 mechanics employed because the place was so busy they had to work graveyard shifts to service the machines. Terry and John made that centre work. What other centre do you know of that replaced the carpet every 12 months and resurfaced yearly? Of course, now that MLG has taken over, we all know what has happened to that centre and most of the other privates that they acquired.
