Mens FIQ Team

[wchester]

Ken...

1) In your opinion, what are the chances that a smoker could obtain level 8 in a beep test? What about an athlete with a bad knee or ankle, can they make an * on the test?
Why a running test..wouldn't a long distance walk be a better indicator of bowling fitness?

2) Can you shed some light on the results of the fitness tests or are they regarded to be "classified information"

3) Will the women bowlers be subject to the same testing?

4) Do you agree that a bowler can be well conditioned for bowling without necessarily being "cardio" fit?

5) No major sports are played on concrete..if the risk of lower body injury isn't higher on concrete then can you explain why we even bother to spend millions on sports surfaces??

 

[CT]

Thanks for the info there Ken,

I'm no expert on the beep test system etc... However wouldn't it be better to asses a bowlers fitness in a way that is more relevant to the way in which we bowl?? Something a long the lines of measured oxygen intake on a treadmill over a greater period of time. The beep test appears to use muscles and fitness which is not generally required in our sport. I know that myself, as one of the largest bowlers around, I would struggle to past this test, however it doesn't make me uncompetitive at national events, I beat players in much better shape than myself on a regular basis.

What I’m trying to get at is that we do need to lift the professional profile of the sport, its just the way in which this is being done is not relative. We could end up with a large number of bowlers at an elite level (more state level than national) that could run to the toilet between each frame no worries, but be unable to knock down 10 pins.

Do you believe in your professional opinion that a bowler who can't pass the beep test is incapable of performing at the required level for international competition? Or is this testing being done to select bowlers to fit a more marketable 'image'?

I personally believe that we need to get back to picking bowlers on form and ability. A selection camp similar to the PBA tour trials would be a great starting point!

 

[wchester]

If we want more funding to be allocated by organisations such as the Australian Sports Commission so our bowlers do not have to pay to represent their country, then it has to be evaluated at levels which are expected by these governing bodies and are representative of the physical and mental demands of tournaments such as the World Championships.
Regards
Ken McLachlan

IN MY OPINION......This is the real reason for the testing...it's all about funding.

 

[JWhitty]

...We could end up with a large number of bowlers at an elite level (more state level than national) that could run to the toilet between each frame no worries, but be unable to knock down 10 pins...

Post of the day that one.

Anybody have any idea what beep level olympic weightlifters have to reach?

 

[kmac]

Dear Wayne,
I will answer your questions individually as you have presented them.

1) A level of 8 should be achievable for most who adopt healthy practices. This is why I feel level 8 is appropriate for a majority of bowlers. Daily exercise, maintaining a decent level of incidental physical activity and maintaining healthy practices will ensure this result on the beep test. I think we would all agree that smoking is not a healthy practice and in my opinion this would negatively affect their chances of achieving a level 8. Perhaps if they also do some aerobic training, then achieving this level may be possible. An athlete with a bad knee or ankle would struggle. None of the guys mentioned to me of any previous injury before partaking in the beep test Sunday. The beep test is a standardised test which is used in most team and individual sports because it has strong correlations with general health (BMI), aerobic capacity and physical fitness when tested in a laboratory environment, where direct measures of VO2max are taken. A walking test in a controlled lab environment on a treadmill may be an alternative but it's more expensive and difficult to execute such tests because you can't test all athletes at once.

2) It would be inappropriate for me to provide further information beyond what I have already stated. There is talk of providing this information in an anonymous fashion to TBA registered coaches in official forums such as conferences, etc to aid in their knowledge.

3) I am not sure about whether the women will be subject to the same testing. The decision on what future fitness testing is conducted is not up to me. I merely test using proven and standardised protocols and provide my results and interpretations to the coaches. I am only a consultant.

4) By all means a bowler can bowl in a regular tournament without being "cardio fit" as you put it, but what we are saying is that there appears to be a relationship between physical fitness and successful elite bowling performances from the preliminary data we have collected thus far. Although this is anecdotal evidence, a lot of the pro and elite bowlers I have talked over the years seem to do some form of basic physical training in preparation for bowling practice sessions and tournaments.

5) Injuries happen on all surfaces, including softer and so called "safer" surfaces. Just because a surface is commercially available and widely used doesn't necessarily mean it is safe. There are a number of factors which influence lower body injuries but no one factor is directly implicated in injury incidence. This is because there are a number of confounding extrinsic and intrinsic factors which are plausible and potentially working in combination. So, given the scientific research currently, to say ground surface is the main factor affecting injuries appears to be a gross generalisation. The reason we tested on this surface Sunday was because we had very little option to test elsewhere, we did not want to inconvenience the bowlers by testing them at another location, we felt the results would be important and valuable to the bowlers and their coaches and that the overall risk of injury to the bowlers would be minimal.

Chris, the above post probably answers your questions. Can I finish by stating that I wasn't involved in the selection of players, but from my understanding, there are virtually no implications in terms of selection points on the results of the beep test because everyone achieved a level 8 with the exception on one bowler who achieved a level 7 and lost 5 out of the 10 points available. I think the TBA accepts that the overall process probably needs a little work and revision, but we all need to put the results and implications of these results into a little perspective. I would highly doubt that what the bowlers achieved on the beep test would be the determining factor of whether that person was selected or not for the Australian team.

Regards
Ken

 

[kmac]

IN MY OPINION......This is the real reason for the testing...it's all about funding.

Wayne,

I don't work for the TBA (see my previous post) so I have no hidden agenda nor am I even aware of the TBA's directives. My point and opinion there was that bowlers who are selected to represent their country shouldn't have to pay to compete in a world championships, as should the Australian youth team. If bowlers have to be a little fitter to improve the profile of bowling in Australia and receive a bit of ASC funding, then it may flow on to teams representing Australia in the future. More immediately, it may improve the bowler's own physical helath and well-being and improve their bowling. Being physically fitter can only help, not hinder a bowler's performance and if you compare the bowlers fitness levels to other sports (with more credibility) and similar physical requirements, we clearly need some improvements.

Regards
Ken

 

[desmondo]

"It is of my professional opinion that any poor scores or injuries which are sustained during any of these testing procedures are functions of physical deficiencies which would have likely presented themselves during the latter stages of a bowling tournament in the form of non-optimal performances or injuries."
If this is the case, how come Matt has won two majors this year? If he was unfit, then surely he would have performed poorly by this reasoning? Or are you saying he should have won by a lot more?
I have seen a million briliant trainers fail in competition. Training fitness does not equal match fitness.
All of the members of the team have proven themselves time and time again. All of the members of the team are strong, appropriately fit people.
If the beep test was such a small part of the equation, then why have it all? Matt may or may not have made the team BUT this irrelevant test (given that Matt has shown his appropriate fitness in the heat of battle) denied him the opportunity.
I am all for a balanced process for selection but this whole process doesn't seem right (either in timing or construct) and hope that the TBA will listen to what is being said here.
Sorry to hear about the injury Matt and wish you all the best for the next trial/tourny.
Good luck to the guys that are going. With all that talent - show em what Australia is made of!!

Des

 

[noer]

Why don't the TBA just do a Cooper Test. I think it much suited to bowling than the beep test. The beep test I think is not suitable for a slow runner because you have to run faster as the level goes up. Just my opinion.

 

[kmac]

Des,

I reiterate, we are not saying that if you are physically fit you will perform better every time you bowl. Statistically speaking, we are saying that based on the preliminary data we have collected so far, the likelihood of you performing better in an elite tournament is better if you are physically fitter. The beep test is an important element because we know that based on scientific information from sports with similar physical requirements, aspects which are related to optimal performance in various sports require some basic level of aerobic physical fitness. Noer, we chose the beep test because it is more valid and provides more normative data than a Cooper test. Again, we are only asking the bowlers to achieve a level that is considered "fair". If you are a slow runner, then you have a lower aerobic fitness capacity than someone who is a faster runner. We are assessing a person's level of aerobic fitness, not how fast a person can run as you put it. We have not included selection points on those other physical capacities yet because of a lack of data specifically related to bowling.

The selection criteria consisted of 9 criteria which was made public to everyone before this process started. As the beep test was worth only 10 of a possible 190 points, I could almost guarantee you that his performance in the beep test was not the reason he not picked for the Australian team, nor was his apparent hamstring injury during the beep test. Matts last 2 major wins were not taken into selection consideration. This may be more of an issue than the beep test because it would have been reflected in both his average and ranking selection points. So for people to come on here and blame the beep test or the way it was conducted for Matt not making the team is adopting a naive and ignorant viewpoint.

There are many factors which related to sporting performance excellence. No one truly knows the actual contribution of each relevant factor, whatever the sport and whoever the scientist. But isn’t it better to base decisions on how we select teams of importance with the available scientific evidence and knowledge rather than people’s personal opinions and experiences?

I actually am one of the few people who are involved other professional and elite sports and similarly appreciate and love the “sport” of bowling. I would like as much as anyone on here and in the TBA to see the sport prosper and evolve to the point where it is respected and where our elite bowlers are valued by everyone in the sporting community. This is one way it can be done and we know it has a place because it is based on scientific evidence and proven and valid methodologies. Other sports have been doing this kind of testing for years and it seems bowling has been left behind, perhaps because of the alternative opinions presented here and elsewhere.

Regards
Ken

 

[Judd33]

Kmac, why are we testing for aerobic fitness when bowling is an anaerobic sport??
Also as im sure you know, you dont have to aerobically fit to be healthy, you find quite often that people that training hard in a gym but dont do much cardio are medically very healthy but cannot running long distances, which would be similar to alot of top bolwers...

 

[tonx]

Ken,

I apoligise on behalf of everyone that seems to be bombarding you with questions they should really be emailing to people associated with the TBA, especially since the questions all seem to be similar in context, just worded differently.

An unbiased observer can see the arguement from both sides.

side 1: Bowlers don't need to run or be fit, they just throw a ball down the lane.

side 2: We understand what bowling is as a recreation. We also understand that for it to have any sort of respect we can't have national representitives looking like slobs, so we ask if your goal is to reach the top international level, you find the time to committ to looking after your body like a professional sports person.

I used to run high 9's as a state level JUNIOR footballer, and was a poor runner compared to others at that level. Running 8's isn't really overly hard, and almost ANY OTHER SPORT would laugh at bowling if its NATIONAL REPRESENTITIVES couldn't squeak out a low 8.

If you have bad knees, bad back, something preventing you from performing at your peak in INTERNATIONAL competition, then get those things right first IF YOU WANT TO COMPETE AT THE HIGHEST LEVEL. To represent Australia at international level, the bowler must have bowling as something very very high on their priority list, and fitting in 30 minutes a day to train for a couple of weeks before a selection camp isn't possible for them, then bowling isn't high enough on that list...

Well done to the people that made the team. The team would be close to one of the strongest teams we have ever sent to a meet of this size. Not one person that made the team doesn't deserve to be there.

 

[kmac]

Justin,

You are incorrect in your physiological assessment of the sport of bowling. Generally speaking, exercise which is conducted at lower intensities for longer periods of time is considered "aerobic", while sports which are conducted at higher intensities for shorter periods of time are considered "anaerobic". A bowling tournament requires low intensity energy output for long duration periods interspersed with periods of rest, therefore it is a predominantly an "aerobic" exercise. I also feel that due to the nature and requirements of bowling, there is a certain level of localised muscle strength and endurance required for successful and effective shot repetition. But even these requirements are not anaerobic. This is because bowling exercise locally and globally does not result in elevation of lactic acid levels which are reflective in anaerobic exercise. Therefore, when we bowl we utilise aerobic sources of energy. Furthermore, we need adequate levels of aerobic fitness for effective recovery and mental functioning. We all know bowling is a mentally based sport too and if we are fatigued, we are less effective in making decisions. This has also been shown scientifically. Therefore, because aerobic capacity and fitness is important, this is why a “fair” level achieved on the beep test is relevant for elite level bowlers.

When you say people train hard in the gym but are not doing cardio, they are generally lifting weights with forcefulness and intensity and are therefore doing predominantly anaerobic work. They have not trained the aerobic energy system in these cases and that is why they struggle to do long distance and low intensity aerobic work. You are making a generalisation based on no scientific information when you state that top bowlers are not able to run long distances. Again, based on the preliminary data we have collected, it appears as a MAJORITY of the better elite bowlers (based on bowling performances) have better aerobic capacities than bowlers who did not do so well in those same tournament situations.

Anyway, I will leave it at that but if anyone has any more pertinent questions, I am happy to discuss them via email (below). Thanks for everyone’s “input”…I think!

Regards
Ken
[email protected]

 

[Parlbs]

defenitely an interesting conversation.

if year 12 PE serves me correct 85-100% of your max HR is performing at an anaerobic level. so this involves activity like sprint work and weights that you are trying to increase muscular strength.

your aerobic levels ranged between 60-84%. as kmac has stated you would be perfoming at an aerobic level when you bowl. going for a jog would fit in this category as would a brisk walk. muscular control using weights also fits in here. you'd find a lot of golfers would use this form of weight training to help with muscular control/endurance and repetition.

The beep test (VO2max test) is the best indicator within the testing arena to measure a persons VO2max.

The proof is in the scientific pudding. i found myself that when i had improved my aerobic fitness my concentration levels were far greater (made my first hundred and continually backed it up with good scores).

i can understand bowlers not wanting to do it but the benefits are there. a brisk 30 min walk 3-4 times a week will go along way to help improve your aerobic capacity.

for the sport to continue to go ahead we have to accept this rather the criticise it.

Ive discussed the level with my partner who has similar qualifications to ken (kmac) and she agreed that level 8 was correct for the men and she suggested 6.5 for the ladies.

i hope this gives a little bit of clarificaton

Shaun Parlby

 

[Jasonguru]

Well all i would like to say (positive only here) is congrats to all that made the team and do Australia proud over there and give it your all. That is all we can all ask of you guys.

A special congrats to Jarrod. Well done mate

 

[Feral]

Ken

Thanks for providing such a good insight into the "beep" test and the role that fitness plays, not only in the physical aspect of our sport, but probably more importantly in the longevity of the mental aspect.

Could you comment please on whether the "beep" test at level 8 would be a significant/reliable indicator of an elite bowlers' ability to avoid DVT on the long airline flights our bowlers often have to endure.

Thanks

 

[desmondo]

Ken,

I didn't mean to sound like I was attacking you, although the post can read that way. I can certainly understand the need for our bowlers to generate a fitness level appropriate to their ambitions.
My son is a very good young bowler and swimmer. The fitness that he gets from swimming does provide some benefit to his bowling but nowhere as much as that provided by the discipline and technical aspects.
No-one can really argue with the team that is going away, nor would anyone argue if Matt had made the team.
Certainly there are far better people to comment on the sport than I. I refer everyone to Belmo's comments on the selection process. If a bowler of Jason's standing and vision has problems with the whole process then hopefully those in charge stand up and take notice. It is a very tough initiation for Gillian but I hear the right things are coming out of her office. Let's hope it continues that way and that with Belmo, Frawls et al we come out of this a much better managed sport.

Having said all that, Ken it is great to see your involvement and hopefully we haven't driven you away.

Des

 

[Jasonguru]

Certainly there are far better people to comment on the sport than I. I refer everyone to Belmo's comments on the selection process. If a bowler of Jason's standing and vision has problems with the whole process then hopefully those in charge stand up and take notice. It is a very tough initiation for Gillian but I hear the right things are coming out of her office. Des

Actions speak louder than words. Old cliche, but rings so true. WE will see, and so far i see nothing more than more problems rather than logical solutions. This scenario being discussed, ie beep tests and poor processes is testament to that unfortunately and it scars the standing of the highest level this sport has to offer.

I just hope the people at the TBA who matter and are the key decision makers are reading and listening more than ever through here and through their ears.

 

[Matti]

i think there is a huge grass area right beside that bowling ally? im sure im correct. maybe a little research before hand will be a little better.

 

[philby]

Im sorry but i fail to see how a beep test was the be all and end all of the team selected. Yes it did count for 5% of the total, 5%. So what about the spare shooting the 6 games on long and 6 games on short oil. How bout the accuracy tests. Didn't they contribute to the overall score. I think this is a great team. Possibly the best mens team ever sent overseas. Bring home medals guys and show the world how good we can be.

Special congrats to Glen Loader. Straight out of youth and into the main game well done young fella.

Phil

 

[Grant61]

What an interesting topic this has been, especially when you consider to qualify for the Olympic team in some sports there is no beep test.

I guess the beep test rules out my good friend Frank Ryan making a comeback!

As Frank once said to me about diet and exercise "Why diet, when you can buy a bigger belt"