How Important is Accuracy?

[jimcross]

This is a perfectly serious question.
In each game, for your first ball each frame, on average, how many times would you hit your board target. I mean ball pass over it, not 1/2 board either side but the track centre of the ball somewhere fully ON your target board ?
I've got an average I'm ashamed of at the moment - 175 - (not enough strikes to compensate for missing easy spares.)

I would hit board accurately 7 or 8 - more like 8 times each game.
( counting a game as 10 frames.)

 

[Bucksby1976]

I would have to say it is the most important thing you can do.

It separates the very best from the rest, especially on the tougher patterns where you have a limited area of lane to work with.

I myself would say at best, maybe hit my target board on average about 6 times per game

 

[mickyd213]

This is a perfectly serious question.
In each game, for your first ball each frame, on average, how many times would you hit your board target. I mean ball pass over it, not 1/2 board either side but the track centre of the ball somewhere fully ON your target board ?
I've got an average I'm ashamed of at the moment - 175 - (not enough strikes to compensate for missing easy spares.)

I would hit board accurately 7 or 8 - more like 8 times each game.
( counting a game as 10 frames.)

I would like to think that if I hit my target 7 to 8 times a game that I would be averaging more than 175... Here is a link to CATS sheet for Bob Learn Jr just to illustrate how accurate a pro bowler is...

http://www.bowlingdigital.com/bowling/files/pdf/CATS20060422BobLearn.pdf

 

[Roysa]

Just as important is where you finish at the foul line.

No point in hitting the board you want at the dots or arrows if your starting point (point at foul line) is different everytime you bowl it. The angle will therefore be different as it rolls over the target point.

Lots of factors to take into account, not to mention speed.

Good topic Jim.

 

[Wallbanger1]

with the lane conditions of today, not that important.

 

[hamster]

Not Important to the average League bowler. Scores are FAR more important.

 

[John_Velo]

G'Day,

Jim good question, two answers for me.

1:On a sports pattern, critical.

2:On the THS, five boards either side is close enough.

So for me I am trying to throw a week cover stock / week core at the moment to improve my shot.

 

[RobbieB]

This is a perfectly serious question.
In each game, for your first ball each frame, on average, how many times would you hit your board target. I mean ball pass over it, not 1/2 board either side but the track centre of the ball somewhere fully ON your target board ?
I've got an average I'm ashamed of at the moment - 175 - (not enough strikes to compensate for missing easy spares.)

I would hit board accurately 7 or 8 - more like 8 times each game.
( counting a game as 10 frames.)

Jim, not being nasty, but you are kidding yourself. You don't miss easy spares with 70-80% 1 board accuracy. Get someone who can actually see to watch you, or video your bowling. 80% 1 board accuracy is world class.

 

[BigDaz]

I was gonna write something similar to the above but couldn't find a pleasant way to word it. I would personally hit my board 3-4 times on an average day and about 6 on a
Good day I reckon.

But personally I think accuracy is much more crucial for spare shooting not 1st ball shots. I focus on release and timing on my first ball, and accuracy on spares. Obviously it's always important with ANY shot you throw.

What I was trying to say was I take my accuracy I bit more seriously for spares haha

 

[Animal]

Sorry Jim, but the bowlers of today will only laugh at us when we say we wish to be accurate.
Regards
Lawrie ( Animal )

 

[Brenton_Davy]

Two things strike me (pun intended) about this topic.

1. If you are totally focussed on your target, you won't actually see if your ball rolls over it or not. If you are executing properly, your eyes will not move from your target and the ball will only be in your field of vision for less than .2 of a second. You can't determine whether you have hit what you are looking at or not.

2. In the majority of cases we do not hit what we look at due to eye dominance, ie one eye being dominant over the other, meaning that the ball is going over a target different to the one you are looking at. In my own case, if I want to hit 1 board, I have to target the equivalent of 2 boards into the left gutter. What I am saying is that in 99% of cases we aren't hitting the board we are aiming for anyway.

Until the concept of eye dominance is understood and accomodated foir, bowlers are kidding themselves they are hitting what they are looking at. More relevant is: Are we hitting our intended target having aimed at a different target, knowing full well that we need to aim "x" number of boards left or right of the board we actually need the ball to roll over?

 

[Michael Little]

Honestly, I would probably hit a 1 board target 3-4 times a game if I was lucky, in reality it is probably lower, what I am concerned with is not so much hitting the same board but making sure the shape, trajectory, angle, rotation, approach, release, break point etc, the list goes on, is as close as it can possibly be. IMO I feel that I literally only bowl 1-2 perfect shots a game when all the above moons align, I can always feel when I haven't done one of the above correctly and drive myself insane trying to correct it next shot only to have another facet not be quite right lol.

As with not being totally accurate hitting single boards, I am fortunate enough to have reasonably high rotation on the ball which usually helps create area on the lanes especially at the break point. In some ways with some of the easier patterns it negates being totally accurate.

However, I bowled my first sports series this morning and my inaccuracy showed, I know myself I haven't been letting the ball go well for a little while now (too inconsistent) so was good to see exactly what effect this all had. I got punished for poor shots, poor accuracy and so did the rest of the field. Sparing was at a premium.

Some serious practice is in need to improve and help increase my accuracy.

 

[Roysa]

I think we all wish to be accurate... But Jim did say he hit his target 8/10, which is exceptional no doubt. Ive never seen him bowl so i wont say he doesnt. But if he hits his target that well i would have thought an avg of more than 175 is a given.

Can we avoid this thread turning into an us V them like all the others.

I will answer your qn Jim, id say 5/10 to be brutally honest with myself.

 

[John_Velo]

G'Day,

I think Michael has probably hit the nail on the head.

A straight rolling ball needs to be a lot more accurate than a high revving, large hooking bowler.

As a kid I bowled a lot against dad who was probably the most accurate bowler I have ever seen bowl. But he only hooked the ball maybe 5 to 7 boards. As Brenton mentioned about eye dominance, dad would say he was hitting ten boad but in reality it was more 12 or 13. He just hit the same area a lot of times per game.

Of the younger guys I have bowled with recently I think Stephen Cowland is about as accurate as I have seen. Again pretty straight rolling ball with 5 to 10 boards hook.

The bigger the hook you throw the bigger the pocket in todays game.

Spares are not included in the thoughts above, accurate or not just as long as you get them second time around.

 

[jimcross]

First, let me say that I have a unique way of focussing and targeting where my ball will go. Robbie, Big Daz and Brenton are no doubt right in what they say, GENERALLY that is. Not for me. Not to put too fine a point on it, You're WRONG. Just in case you didn't get that - the word is WRONG! I've had other people look at me bowling. Last Friday I had Cameron Walsh watch, advise and video what I was doing. He remarked at the time that there would'nt be 1% of bowlers who could target as I do.
NOW UNDERSTAND THIS - I do what I said I do - in fact I pulled it back a bit in my opening post, as I suspected we might get into this sort of discussion, if we concentrated on where and how I place a ball. I often go through a three game league and miss my target 1 to 3 times ! Now, I don't give a stuff whether you believe that or not. That's what I do, and Robbie, I don't care whether that's way above world bloody class either. DON'T any of you presume to tell me what I do, or what I see, or don't see.

I know what you're talking about Brenton with eye domonance - but I look at what I aim at and what I HIT ! All the same things!
If you all READ my original post, you will see that I specified FIRST ball - not spare shooting. I'm in the grip of an enormous mental problem with spare shooting at the moment ( and for some months) Spare shooting, I cant hit the side of a barn, and when I do hit my target I pull the ball right or left, or put too many revs on it, or not enough !
And every time you do that, the next spare is even more iffy.

I bowled 2 games earlier today in an 'oldies' league here in Ballina. I bowled 203 or 4 and 214 or thereabouts. Got mainly strikes, left no splits, had only 2 - 8 counts, and the rest were 9s. I missed completely two 10 pins, two 7 pins, and one 4 pin. Not even close. So sure, accuracy on first ball and a 175 average is ridiculous. I KNOW THAT.

I've got more to say on this, but I can't get rid of the bloody rage I feel, to the point that I can't continue to write. ( the red mist in front of my eyes is obscuring the keyboard.)
Later, I may be able to feel calm enough to describe exactly how I do what I do. If I'm able to explain it well enough, you may actually see that by your general remarks you may be " kidding yourselves ", as Robbie so elegantly put it.

 

[Michael Little]

First, let me say that I have a unique way of focussing and targeting where my ball will go. Robbie, Big Daz and Brenton are no doubt right in what they say, GENERALLY that is. Not for me. Not to put too fine a point on it, You're WRONG. Just in case you didn't get that - the word is WRONG! I've had other people look at me bowling. Last Friday I had Cameron Walsh watch, advise and video what I was doing. He remarked at the time that there would'nt be 1% of bowlers who could target as I do.
NOW UNDERSTAND THIS - I do what I said I do - in fact I pulled it back a bit in my opening post, as I suspected we might get into this sort of discussion, if we concentrated on where and how I place a ball. I often go through a three game league and miss my target 1 to 3 times ! Now, I don't give a stuff whether you believe that or not. That's what I do, and Robbie, I don't care whether that's way above world bloody class either. DON'T any of you presume to tell me what I do, or what I see, or don't see.

I know what you're talking about Brenton with eye domonance - but I look at what I aim at and what I HIT ! All the same things!
If you all READ my original post, you will see that I specified FIRST ball - not spare shooting. I'm in the grip of an enormous mental problem with spare shooting at the moment ( and for some months) Spare shooting, I cant hit the side of a barn, and when I do hit my target I pull the ball right or left, or put too many revs on it, or not enough !
And every time you do that, the next spare is even more iffy.

I bowled 2 games earlier today in an 'oldies' league here in Ballina. I bowled 203 or 4 and 214 or thereabouts. Got mainly strikes, left no splits, had only 2 - 8 counts, and the rest were 9s. I missed completely two 10 pins, two 7 pins, and one 4 pin. Not even close. So sure, accuracy on first ball and a 175 average is ridiculous. I KNOW THAT.

I've got more to say on this, but I can't get rid of the bloody rage I feel, to the point that I can't continue to write. ( the red mist in front of my eyes is obscuring the keyboard.)
Later, I may be able to feel calm enough to describe exactly how I do what I do. If I'm able to explain it well enough, you may actually see that by your general remarks you may be " kidding yourselves ", as Robbie so elegantly put it.

Ouch! hahaha

IMO you kinda did leave yourself open to some level of mirth when claiming certain statistics, if you said you averaged say 200 and had high accuracy but werent converting spares, on appearances it would seem believable, however saying 175 avg but only missing targets 2 times a game, you would be saying either you dont carry any shots in your games or are missing 5 spares a game which doesnt add up to the average person, no offence intended so dont burn me or anything lol :surrender:

Having said that, what is your method of targeting, it may prove useful to other bowlers and some could adapt or learn from it perhaps?

 

[poppy62]

I may not be one of the elite -age and injuries holding me back hehe but but us old school strokers learnt on lanes where accuracy was a major requirement. i dont bowl with many revs, not much hook ... maybe 5-10 boards at the most but i do regard myself as accurate - just cant strike!!! ( i know quite a few bowlers who would agree about my bowling)
What im saying here is you can be accurate but not be able to have the pin action a high rev bowler achieves hence the higher aves they generate
I had a lesson from one of aussie's most respected coaches Patrick Birtig a few years ago where he put some apparatus on the lanes at the arrows where youd aim at a target and if you hit the target a green light would show, if 1 board right or left a red light would show further off target .....nothing. He would then stand back and get you to bowl about 50 shots at the target. When i had finished he told me i had hit my target 44 out of 50 attempts.... accurate....yes ultra high ave...no. (Wished every game was no-tap)
For the record, i have not bowled a single game this year due to work and injury but have held a 200+ ave for for a number of years now

 

[jimcross]

however saying 175 avg but only missing targets 2 times a game, you would be saying either you dont carry any shots in your games or are missing 5 spares a game which doesnt add up to the average person, no offence intended so dont burn me or anything lol - Michael Little



Michael, I still am having trouble being even vaguely polite. You are deliberately saying that I'm spinning some kind of bull****. The rage I feel is real, believe me.
Sure, I'm having great trouble with carry. I've changed balls - changed line - changed angle into the pocket - and leave 4 pins, 7 pins, both of those togrther and, in particular,4-7-9s a couple of times a game.
I know they are leaves from high hits normally. I get perfect looking strikes from what looks like an identical hit. I get almost NO untidy strikes. I miss most of the spares. Everybody has 'unlucky' games from time to time. Frame at a time it may appear OK. Good Hits - crook result, and at the end you find a 146 game - but only one - the 'bad luck' disappears. I KNEW this could'nt go on for months, but it has, and then I get some smart-arse who thinks it's funny and that I'm talking ****.
I see you've been on TVS lately in the 'State of Origin" thingo - s'pose it's all over now, but if it's not ask Jason Walsh if he thinks I'm a bull**** artist. Have known him a long time, and as I won't know what he says, he'll be free to say what he thinks.

How do I hit a target? Really not in the mood to do this thoroughly, but, I only see the ball for a limited time and at limited distances. Essential is a smoooth consistant rhymic, on balance approach. When I have released the ball, I am balanced on the left foot, righr leg out at rear, on balance, and I could stand there reasonably indefinately ( see my avatar )
This approach sees my left foot position in the same ( or close to the same) position each delivery.
I can't describe the next part exactly, but after I bowl tomorrow night, I will have made some mental notes so that I can be more specific.
Generally, I only see the ball for a limited time and distance. Firstly, I see it only for a short distance on the lane prior to it reaching the target board. By the target board, I mean both sideways and lengthwise. That is, a piece of board 1 inch wide, and about 2 inches long. I aim to put the centre of the ball track over that.
Next, and most important, I keep my head and eyes DOWN. For golfers, just like in golf - you won't strike the ball accurately if you lift your head to see where the ball is going to go while you're trying to hit it. ( or in bowling, deliver it) I perfected this over hundreds of hours of practice, in the '60s
So, I see the ball just prior to, then on, and for a VERY short distance after it has passed over the small target area.

When I lift my eyes the ball is close to the headpin. I don't know how close, any more than I know the distances before and after the target board at the start of the shot.
I'll try and look tomorrow night and give some distances.
This results in my having NO IDEA what path the ball takes. I see it at the beginning and the end only. This is why, a few of days ago I had Cameron watching and videoing my shots - so I could see paths, breakpoints, etc., so that I may be able to try to see why I'm going through this period of completely freakish non-scoring V/S apparently OK bowling, which you find so amusing.

 

[BigDaz]

I was gonna write something similar to the above but couldn't find a pleasant way to word it. I would personally hit my board 3-4 times on an average day and about 6 on a good day I reckon.

First, let me say that I have a unique way of focussing and targeting where my ball will go. Robbie, Big Daz and Brenton are no doubt right in what they say, GENERALLY that is. Not for me. Not to put too fine a point on it, You're WRONG. Just in case you didn't get that - the word is WRONG! I've had other people look at me bowling. Last Friday I had Cameron Walsh watch, advise and video what I was doing. He remarked at the time that there would'nt be 1% of bowlers who could target as I do.
NOW UNDERSTAND THIS - I do what I said I do - in fact I pulled it back a bit in my opening post, as I suspected we might get into this sort of discussion, if we concentrated on where and how I place a ball. I often go through a three game league and miss my target 1 to 3 times ! Now, I don't give a stuff whether you believe that or not. That's what I do, and Robbie, I don't care whether that's way above world bloody class either. DON'T any of you presume to tell me what I do, or what I see, or don't see.

I know what you're talking about Brenton with eye domonance - but I look at what I aim at and what I HIT ! All the same things!
If you all READ my original post, you will see that I specified FIRST ball - not spare shooting. I'm in the grip of an enormous mental problem with spare shooting at the moment ( and for some months) Spare shooting, I cant hit the side of a barn, and when I do hit my target I pull the ball right or left, or put too many revs on it, or not enough !
And every time you do that, the next spare is even more iffy.

I bowled 2 games earlier today in an 'oldies' league here in Ballina. I bowled 203 or 4 and 214 or thereabouts. Got mainly strikes, left no splits, had only 2 - 8 counts, and the rest were 9s. I missed completely two 10 pins, two 7 pins, and one 4 pin. Not even close. So sure, accuracy on first ball and a 175 average is ridiculous. I KNOW THAT.

I've got more to say on this, but I can't get rid of the bloody rage I feel, to the point that I can't continue to write. ( the red mist in front of my eyes is obscuring the keyboard.)
Later, I may be able to feel calm enough to describe exactly how I do what I do. If I'm able to explain it well enough, you may actually see that by your general remarks you may be " kidding yourselves ", as Robbie so elegantly put it.

I was hoping this wouldn't happen. Firstly I would like to say, im starting to become more regular on this forum, and there's about 5 people who post here regularly, who's post i read very carefully when i see them, just incase there is any wisdom or knowledge to learn from that individual. You are one of those people to me Jim.

Im only 24, but consider myself more of a "Traditional bowler" than a new age bowler, meaning while i like the new gear and high revving actions of todays youth, i dont see myself as that type of bowler.

I bowl a medium rev, medium speed ball and focus on making good shots making spares, and more importantly Learning more and more every time i step up on the lanes, and log into this forum.

I can most definitely understand your rage, as nobody like to be told they are a liar, especially when they are telling the truth. It just seemed unlikely that you have ~80% accuracy and not throwing a higher average.

I just felt i had to clear the intent of my post up a bit, im not here to make enemy's or upset anybody so sorry about that.

And as for your mental problem with your spare shooting, my advice(as useless as it may be) is to keep your spare shots as simple as possible. Seems obvious i know, but about 2 years ago i made a change to how i approach spares. If the head pin is still up i throw my same speed/release as my strike ball(left or right depending on whats left up to hit). If its anything else i throw a dead straight spare ball at it. It made things alot simpler for me and helped my scores.

Each to their own. Sorry again for my earlier post i should have worded my thoughts a touch differently.

 

[Deano]

Michael I totally agree with you. Sometimes though i think its better to say nothing at all.

Deano