Does Rachuig need a serious upgrade?

[CHIN]

Bring back the late 80's early 90's. I can remember when you made your State Team & it didnt cost you a penny. The then ATBC chipped in with the airfares so that each State could at least field a team & with Government grants that covered Accomodation, National Entry's, Uniforms, Transport etc we even got $100 cash spending money some years.
I've been told in the past we still get the Government grants for State teams, but that goes into Development. State teams dont see much of it, if any.

 

[Andrew Frawley]

Personally I think the Rachuig tournament is a great event, its the peak event for any elite bowler in Australia, but sadly its greatest drawback since a loss of airfare sponsorship has been cost. Noboday can blame any player for giving it a miss in this day and age.

I really think it is past being an annual event, and would have a far greater following if held every two years. This would give both bowlers and State associations time to raise the necessary funds to cover team costs.

In the off year States could run an centre against centre type event, add a little to the entry fee to raise some much needed cash for the next year. I really think this could be a great grass roots level tournament to finding new blood for Rachuig.

Those bowlers who wish to play for their country can do so knowing that the year the Asian champs is on is the off year for Rachuig as Asian champs are held every two years.

Every two years means that supporters could start a $10-20 a week savings plan to send groups to the nationals not only to bowl but to support the State teams. Its far easier to get money out of everyone on the dripfeed, instead of one whack.

A negative would be that the Nationals would be a lot quieter on the off year...but the Nationals is a completely different subject.

I thought about this for a while and other than 'its always been that way" I can't see why it should not be a bi annual event. States and bowlers just can't afford it every year without substantial sponsorship, and we all know that pretty much ain't going to happen.

Still away but still interested....will get back home one of these days.
take care everyone
Andrew Frawley

 

[edfleminglanes]

Great suggestion Frawley, the off year could be promoted to stage the Seniors scratch Team challenge.

 

[split happens]

It costs any Bowling Centre a lot of money to host a Nationals - I believe the current amount charged by TBA is $10000 - Maybe some of that could be used for prizemoney?
QUOTE]

And what does the centre get for this?
What do the bowlers get for their fees they pay every year?
What do the centres get for paying to be certified?
What do the bowlers or the states get for the government funding TBA get?

Alot of money going in, not a lot of anything coming out.

Good idea Andrew, maybe something into prizefund, or into helping the bowlers get there.

At the end of the day, if it is up to the bowlers to pay everything, then it's up to the bowlers to take a stand.

Just my 2 cents worth. Worth about 1 after tax.

 

[Chucky]

andrew is that money you said centres cost to host the nationals. is that money that is paid to TBA? or is it based on lost money of casual/league bowling money that they dont get for the two weeks?

If its the cost to the TBA as split said what does the centre get from this and in reality whats the amount a popular centre would loose in income from stopping casual bowlers in for that time? it would add up to alot more.

 

[Andrew S.]

I believe that last year Events Tasmania came up with the $!0,000. Chucky the $10000 goes to TBA.
I don't know what the game rate was but I would guess it was between $5 and $6.
There would have to be over 10,000 games in the Nationals so by my estimation neither TBA nor the bowl would have done too badly.

 

[split happens]

Andrew, is that game rate paid by the bowlers in the teams?

 

[edfleminglanes]

Did TBA really get $10,000.00. Maybe some of you bowlers should speak with Alex Popov and really get an understanding about cost re-national.

 

[Andrew S.]

Far as I know, the game rate is paid by everyone.

 

[JWhitty]

Generally the center is paid daily for the number of games bowled, in full.

Keep in mind that it costs the national association a fair whack to actually run one of these events, not to mention the full-time staff in the office year-round and a team of people who are needed to run the event down there (accomodation, food, travel)

If we pay $12 registration or whatever it is, plus each nationals puts in $10k, that still would barely pay the wages of TBA in my estimation. Plus everyone wants something from their $12, now everyone wants something from the $10k. At this rate TBA will have nothing left to staff the office and we'll have nothing, because they'll have nobody to do it and only volunteers trying to fit things around their day jobs.

If you really want to know though, ask Peter Coburn directly and he might tell you exactly where that $10k goes. Or Kerry Lovegrove.

Personally I know nationals doesn't run at a profit, in fact it has run in the red more often than the black.

Chucky, yes the popular centres have complained about it before cutting into their good social play. We get breaks between our squads, but some centres are just social bowlers back to back and yes they would be losing out for the 'prestige' of hosting.

 

[Andrew S.]

You are quite right both Kerry and Peter have run an excellent operation over the years.

However using your own logic does that mean therefore that the Nationals were losing at the rate of $10000+ before that levy was imposed?

And incidentally, TBA keeps a Tournament account which is totally separate to its General account.

 

[CHIN]

Andrew, is that game rate paid by the bowlers in the teams?

If you meam do the Rachuig Team bowlers pay the game rate.

Correct me if im wrong (which im sure somebody will).

Each State team for memory pays a fee of approx $2,500, which covers linage, cost of medals etc. Not 100% sure what else it covers, but im sure their is something. 10 teams, thats approx $25,000. Never have found out exactly what it covers over the years.
Lets not forget the $5 or $6 Tournament Expense that is incorperated in the $30 entry every 1 of the 1,000+ Singles, Doubles & Teams entry's that are paid by bowlers that bowl Nationals.

$10,000 Paid by centre to host Nationals.
$25,000 Linage paid by 10 States
$ 5,000 Tournament Expenses

Over $40,000. What they make out of Youth & Junior Nationals I dont know.
The people working behind the scenes are volunteers & they often run in the black. ???????????

 

[JWhitty]

However using your own logic does that mean therefore that the Nationals were losing at the rate of $10000+ before that levy was imposed?

No, of course not, I'm suggesting that to improve the quality of the event the $10000 was added and even still there was red. You could run it in the black without the $10000, but then you'd need to cut back on a lot of things. It's clear a lot of people already feel nationals is slipping, imagine how much worse it could get. If it was easy, ATBC wouldn't have folded out all those years ago...

And incidentally, TBA keeps a Tournament account which is totally separate to its General account.

Also true, and further strengthening my point that their income as an operation is very limited, and bowlers are getting quite demanding.

 

[JWhitty]

If you meam do the Rachuig Team bowlers pay the game rate.
Correct me if im wrong (which im sure somebody will).
Each State team for memory pays a fee of approx $2,500, which covers linage, cost of medals etc. Not 100% sure what else it covers, but im sure their is something. 10 teams, thats approx $25,000. Never have found out exactly what it covers over the years.
Lets not forget the $5 or $6 Tournament Expense that is incorperated in the $30 entry every 1 of the 1,000+ Singles, Doubles & Teams entry's paid by bowlers that bowl Nationals.
$10,000 Paid by centre to host Nationals.
$25,000 Linage paid by 10 States
$ 5,000 Tournament Expenses

Over $40,000. What they make out of Youth & Junior Nationals I dont know.
The people working behind the scenes are volunteers & they often run in the black. ???????????

Not over $40,000 at all, as you said the $25k in there is lineage back to the center.
So you have $15,000 left to...
1. Purchase medals and plaques, not a cheap exercise
2. Purchase AND MAINTAIN the equipment needed for nationals
3. Purchase and continually replace the consumables required for a nationals
4. Accomodate 6 people for 3 weeks
5. Feed same 6 people for 3 weeks
6. Transport same 6 people to and from venue
7. Pay for a full time employee to co-ordinate entries in
8. Pay for accounting

I'm sure Peter could easily add to this list at an exponential rate.

TBA is our national body, and I'm sure subject to a legal audit somewhere. If anyone has genuine concern, stand up and get an audit done.

 

[Andrew S.]

TBA is our national body, and I'm sure subject to a legal audit somewhere. If anyone has genuine concern, stand up and get an audit done.

Funny you should mention that. From memory the last financials that were presented were not only un-audited they were also in draft form.

 

[edfleminglanes]

So Chin why have your SA State reps not asked for an Audit !!!

 

[CHIN]

Not over $40,000 at all, as you said the $25k in there is lineage back to the center.

Rachuig is 18 games x 5 person teams = 90 games
90 games Men. 90 games Women. Total 180 games per Team
10 Teams x 180 games = 1800 games
Go with Andrews top figure of $6.00 a game x 1800 games = $10,800.

A far cry from "$25k in lineage back to the center"
Unless my maths is wrong.

Accomodate 6 people for 3 weeks
Feed same 6 people for 3 weeks
Transport same 6 people to and from venue

Sounds like a good gig if you can get in on it.
Im sure we have been led to beleive the people in the Tournament room were volunteers, giving there time freely at the Nationals.

Volunteer = a $2,000 a head, all expenses paid 3 week trip for 6 people.
$12,000 im sure that could be put to better use if we truely had volunteers doing the job.

Im sure everybody that bowled De Veer & Rachuig in Tassie outlayed $1500-$2500 for the privilige for 1 week with time off work.

 

[strop]

You tell them chin. As far as audits why haven't they asked, mind you bashing ones head against a brick wall will give you a better result!

Not picking on the PAID volunteers are we..........

 

[CHIN]

So Chin why have your SA State reps not asked for an Audit !!!

Dunno Joe,

Maybe there just lazy. Maybe they just dont like s.h.i.t. stirring like me. Maybe they dont give crap. Hell, maybe I dont give a crap.
Yes, somebody's gonna come back and say why dont I get of my arse & volunteer if im not happy with the way things are. Been there done that. Served my time on committee's. All we got then was grief. Just giving some back.

 

[JWhitty]

Rachuig is 18 games x 5 person teams = 90 games
90 games Men. 90 games Women. Total 180 games per Team
10 Teams x 180 games = 1800 games
Go with Andrews top figure of $6.00 a game x 1800 games = $10,800.
A far cry from "$25k in lineage back to the center"
Unless my maths is wrong.
Accomodate 6 people for 3 weeks
Feed same 6 people for 3 weeks
Transport same 6 people to and from venue
Sounds like a good gig if you can get in on it.
Im sure we have been led to beleive the people in the Tournament room were volunteers, giving there time freely at the Nationals.
Volunteer = a $2,000 a head, all expenses paid 3 week trip for 6 people.
$12,000 im sure that could be put to better use if we truely had volunteers doing the job.

I'm not looking to get into an argument here, I'm imparting my experience as one of those volunteers in the tournament room at several events. It's not a lark, it wasn't a 3 week holiday. Keep in mind we are all locked in a bowl from 7.30AM through to conclusion of what, a 9pm squad? It's long hours, there's not time out. I know the closest thing Ronda gets to a break is during the days of Rachuig when it's not constant squad hacking. I remember Royal Rumble at Tuggeranong last year (or possibly the year before) where we started at 8AM for the first squad and Royal rumble finished around 1AM.

It was expenses paid, but not a holiday. I for one am happy to give my time back to the sport, tomorrow I'm leaving work early to go run our ACT State Juniors, which is where I'll be all day Saturday and well into Sunday. I do not have the finances to donate, although Peter Coburn did freely give a lot of his time will into hours he should've been earning.

And that expense is a part of why I wasn't at Hobart, you'll notice that Simon Commane (local) was in there.

I'm not trying to justify TBA's costs, nor am I even endorsing them. I am just a big believer in keeping these arguments fair. Let's stop speculating, if you want to know, ask them, audit them, let's find out the facts.