AMF Game Rates?

[Geoff300]

Hey guys let me throw this at you, I went bowling after work today for 2 hours and bowled 10 games, and it only costed me $10.00. There's no real reason why you shouldn't be able to do the same. The bowling center I bowl at does lots of business needless to say, and AMF could to if they got there heads out of their backsides. From what I've been reading it would have cost me around $55.00 to bowl at an AMF center. There's no way I could afford to do that even once a week. As it is now I bowl 2-3 times a week plus league. Some one wrote that the most expensive lane was an empty one and they're right. By the way had a 194 average after 10 games.

That is exactly the point

Half price games are better that no games at all
I owned a bowling centre and we had Very cheap game
rates for any league bowler certain times of the day
and it was great for the bowler and the business

Part of the problem today is NO ladies leagues of
any sunbstance = less income = higher prices to make budget

When i was a junior learning to bowl I bowled more than 20 games per week practice and 3 leagues a week

It was 35cents per game then now $13.50
and we are bowling in the same bowling centre, real estate wise etc.

I just don't know too many people today that can afford that
kind of commitment to the game, both to learn and compete.

There is zero promotion by AMF towards league play
because the budget is met by birthday parties, corporate
and social play.....

 

[RobbieB]

I wasn't going to get involved in this thread, but...

US: minimum wage $7.25 - as low as $3 in some states for employees that get tips (hello cafe staff!).

Other costs are far lower in the States, as the many people who ship gear in can attest to.

Yes AMFs' prices are high for those who choose to bowl 1 game. Chris still paid it, and if he had his card on him it would have been $5.50. Three games for an adult is about $24, 10% discount with discount card, about $7 per game even in 3 game blocks. Seems one would get plenty of change from $150. Oh, and anyone who thinks a 2-year-old will get through a game in 10 minutes is kidding themselves.

AMf are in business to make money. It is as simple as that. They choose to give their league bowlers a substantial discount for bowling every week. Without that discount, social prices would be much lower.

For those who want a US chain to ride into Australia and give you $1 games, the last company to do that was.... AMF! You don't like their prices, bowl elsewhere. If anyone seriously thinks complaining on a public forum is going to make a difference to the team of accountants that determine how much their chain has to charge to provide a return to their investors, I have a bridge you might be interested in.

AMF provide off peak discounts for families (some of them even cheaper than my prices) and there is always the option of (gasp) joining a league to get cheaper rates.

I have never, as a league bowler, been refused instructomat in an AMF centre that had the facility available when I have been in to practice. At Mt Gravatt we used to bowl for an hour without pins, as long as we bowled a couple games (at league practice rates) afterwards it was fine. Go ask, you might be surprised.

It is an expensive game if you want to go in and bowl one game a few times a year. The vast majority of their customers don't do that, and I would suggest that Chris' experience is the exception rather than the rule. The fact is, bowling centres are VERY expensive to build and run, and the bills have to get paid or they shut.

The Sport of Bowling is not in great shape, but there a lots of factors in that. Lots of people have put up their 2c in this thread, and I have a question for them: What have you done to help your sport? Have you helped recruit anyone, done some coaching, passed on an old ball to a junior, anything? Or is that just the Centres job?

I can't beleive I'm actually defending AMF here, but this needed a serious reality check.

 

[Gary]

$5.50 game rate i happy with

 

[Fitzy]

I can't beleive I'm actually defending AMF here, but this needed a serious reality check.

I think others need a reality check also.

Do you honestly believe anyone that has posted on this topic really thinks that posting on a forum is going to drastically change anything?!? Maybe you also believe that getting fifty celebrities in a room to sing a song will solve famine in Africa. [I wonder if anyone has thought of that?? maybe I should have a chat to Lionel Ritchie next time I see him]

Obviously 10 games (oh and the hot dog and coke) is not going to reach $150, it is a sarcastic remark that tries to hit home the fact that the pricing IS too high for THE SPORT! It is never going to be too high for THE BUSINESS of bowling, if it does, they will give as a 'platinum' card to offset another 1.5% of costs to draw us back in (and then bump up the prices by 25%) <- oh oops, should qualify sarcasm again.

What I feel this issue is about is putting out there the frustration of the negative influence that high pricing can toll on the future of the sport.

Hey, even I have nothing against AMF as a business, they are obviously doing something right otherwise they wouldn't still be here, but should I stay quiet and wait for the next 10 years to pass and pay the $55.90 per game ($141.50 for a social game) come 2020?!? <- yep sarcasm again!
No, every one has the right to express an opinion UNLESS IT HAS BEEN ILLEGALLY EXPRESSED! Of yet I do not believe anyone has crossed that line.

If you are eternally quiet you are an eternal sheep!

Maybe the feminists should have been dealt a reality check also in the 1960's, I mean how much, in reality, did that accomplish!! sheesh! <- Sacracm also!

 

[WAC4504]

Hey guys, I don't know what the wages are like in Australia,but your dollar is only worth ten cent moor than ours. Although the min, wage is only $7.50 ( I guess 'cause I really don't know ) and, that's still to high for most of these brain dead worthless individuals to lazy to get a real job, you wont find to many of them in a bowling ally. No matter what the reason for the economics, and I blame it on the scumbag politicians, and unions over here, the bottom line is the league bowler is the back bone of the sport. There is no birthday party sport, or am I mistaken? By the way guys I pay the same price as any Joe Blow that walks in off the street. I would love to see a discount card, but I dare not hold my breath. I don't know anything about the TBA or what ever, but you might try approaching them with this problem, of coarse they probably wont listen to just one person so you better be prepared to stay at them day in and day out to have any chance of getting anything done. And the biggest reason our rates are so low is competition. One moor thing, it's your money so spend it where you want.

 

[Bigsy]

Another thing that may be worth noting is that more and more people are now using credit cards. These attract an additional surcharge of anywhere between 2.5% - 6% to the bowling alley. I dont know of any bowling centres who reward people for paying cash. Conversley, I don't know of any bowling centres that charge extra for credit card transactions.

My two cents.

Bigsy...

 

[Geoff300]

I wasn't going to get involved in this thread, but...

US: minimum wage $7.25 - as low as $3 in some states for employees that get tips (hello cafe staff!).

Other costs are far lower in the States, as the many people who ship gear in can attest to.

Yes AMFs' prices are high for those who choose to bowl 1 game. Chris still paid it, and if he had his card on him it would have been $5.50. Three games for an adult is about $24, 10% discount with discount card, about $7 per game even in 3 game blocks. Seems one would get plenty of change from $150. Oh, and anyone who thinks a 2-year-old will get through a game in 10 minutes is kidding themselves.

AMf are in business to make money. It is as simple as that. They choose to give their league bowlers a substantial discount for bowling every week. Without that discount, social prices would be much lower.

For those who want a US chain to ride into Australia and give you $1 games, the last company to do that was.... AMF! You don't like their prices, bowl elsewhere. If anyone seriously thinks complaining on a public forum is going to make a difference to the team of accountants that determine how much their chain has to charge to provide a return to their investors, I have a bridge you might be interested in.

AMF provide off peak discounts for families (some of them even cheaper than my prices) and there is always the option of (gasp) joining a league to get cheaper rates.

I have never, as a league bowler, been refused instructomat in an AMF centre that had the facility available when I have been in to practice. At Mt Gravatt we used to bowl for an hour without pins, as long as we bowled a couple games (at league practice rates) afterwards it was fine. Go ask, you might be surprised.

It is an expensive game if you want to go in and bowl one game a few times a year. The vast majority of their customers don't do that, and I would suggest that Chris' experience is the exception rather than the rule. The fact is, bowling centres are VERY expensive to build and run, and the bills have to get paid or they shut.

The Sport of Bowling is not in great shape, but there a lots of factors in that. Lots of people have put up their 2c in this thread, and I have a question for them: What have you done to help your sport? Have you helped recruit anyone, done some coaching, passed on an old ball to a junior, anything? Or is that just the Centres job?

I can't beleive I'm actually defending AMF here, but this needed a serious reality check.

In answer to your questions

I owned and ran a Bowling centre 20+ years ago , so I
do have an idea about what I am saying as well

I am a Level 2 Coach
Have given away 20 - 30 Bowling balls to juniors
Encourage people regularly to join a league

Sorry but my view remains unchanged AMF are
raping the game and the regulars who play it

 

[teh_jackal]

Talk, talk, talk, talk that's all that ever happens with these threads. AMF will not change their ways till it hurts their bottom line, they believe YOU need them more than they need you.. I've said it before, if you want them to change we must stand together, I propose a "no bowling week" lol, get as many ppl as you can to not bowl for a week. It wont be easy to organize but essentially we should strike (pardon the pun) for a week... and if that doesn't work make it 2 lol. At the end of the day its only bowling and we've all taken a week off for one reason or another so this time we are doing for the sport itself. STRIKE TO SAVE BOWLING!!!

 

[nev25]

Talk, talk, talk, talk that's all that ever happens with these threads. AMF will not change their ways till it hurts their bottom line, they believe YOU need them more than they need you.. I've said it before, if you want them to change we must stand together, I propose a "no bowling week" lol, get as many ppl as you can to not bowl for a week. It wont be easy to organize but essentially we should strike (pardon the pun) for a week... and if that doesn't work make it 2 lol. At the end of the day its only bowling and we've all taken a week off for one reason or another so this time we are doing for the sport itself. STRIKE TO SAVE BOWLING!!!

Yeah right
Then they will put the prices up to cover the loss for the 2 weeks

Or close for good

 

[PeterB]

If I've said it once I've said it a thousand times. AMF are pricing the industry out of business. We'll be lucky to have a working center in 10 - 15 years. I use to bowl 6 leagues a week including practice. There was a time when you could walk into Milton Bowl and slap $100 on the counter and get 100 games. Those days are truly long gone. Everything associated with the sport is expensive. Not just the games. AMF is the Kwiky Mart of tenpin bowling. Gouge your customers at any cost. I never promote the sport anymore. I steer people to other sports simply because of the cost. I really miss the sport.

 

[WAC4504]

Guys I'm sorry to read about you problems down there, but all the *****ing in the world will do nothing. I wish I could help you, but there's nothing I can do. This is a problem that you will have to solve, up here we have a saying that united we stand and divided we fall. Just think- 200,000 individual voices don't mean squat but 200,000 individuals with just one voice might be heard. Think about it guys, if you don't like what is happening to the sport over there then change it, but this site wont do it for you. As always just my thoughts on the matter.

 

[gregb]

Come and bowl in Bendigo,
show me your TBA card i will give you 3games for $10.00.

This is my practice rate for all league bowlers here in Bendigo..

 

[wchester]

i can attest to the fact that bendigo bowl has some of the lowest priced practice rates in Australia..

just mention my name and you'll receive a special 50% surcharge.

 

[nev25]

There was a time when you could walk into Milton Bowl and slap $100 on the counter and get 100 games. . .

Used to buy petrol for 30cent a litre to a meat pie for 15cent

 

[Phluff]

Directly comparing to prices in the US isn't really feasible. On very rough calculations, daily running costs (Staff, lane maintenance, machine wear etc) is about 2.5x more in Australia. That doesn't take into account utilities or rent. So in actual fact, those US$2 games are on par with the AU$4.50-5.50 rates charged to league bowlers here.

Now if you want to talk social rates for non league bowlers (which was the original issue on this thread), then that is usually something that has been worked out based on perceived disposable income in the area. I.E. Country centres will always charge less per game than metro centres as there is less disposable income to go around in those areas. Is this rate too high? 99% Of people will always tell you a price is too high!

The other point of the OP was whether or not there should be a discounted rate for kids aged 5 and under. Personally I believe there should be to encourage parents to bring the smaller kids out. Hook them young and bleed them dry till the end is a business model that works well as long as you keep getting fresh customers! However bowling is something that costs the same to do for an adult as for a child. Compare this to another activity, such as going to the movies, and you'll see that they have 2 prices; Adult or concession. If you offer cheaper rates for under 5 then the adult prices need to increase to cover.

The reality is, as long as enough people are walking through the door paying that price, it's perfectly acceptable. This isn't the major issue that is "hurting" the sport as the dollar conscious social bowler should be aware by looking at any price board that if they join a league they can get a much cheaper rate. What is in fact hurting the sport is a number of things from economics through to perception of the game itself. There is no easy fix and dropping the game rate to $3 per game for everyone will simply put the majority of centres out of business.

 

[wchester]

Directly comparing to prices in the US isn't really feasible. On very rough calculations, daily running costs (Staff, lane maintenance, machine wear etc) is about 2.5x more in Australia. That doesn't take into account utilities or rent. So in actual fact, those US$2 games are on par with the AU$4.50-5.50 rates charged to league bowlers here.

I've done some research and found your numbers to be greatly exaggerated.

Pinsetter and lane maintenance parts can be sourced from Australian distributors for 140% -150% of the cost in America.
Australian utilities run approximately 140% over comparable USA costs.
Rents can range greatly but on average, USA commercial rental expenses are around 200% the cost of Australian leasing costs. Not the other way around!

However bowling is something that costs the same to do for an adult as for a child. Compare this to another activity, such as going to the movies, and you'll see that they have 2 prices; Adult or concession. If you offer cheaper rates for under 5 then the adult prices need to increase to cover.

While on the other hand, you don't have to pay that mechanic, desk person, or snack bar attendant any more in wages when you're busy than when your quiet. So wouldn't you rather have most of your lanes in use, even at $3-4 dollars per game, than a bowl with far fewer patrons spending a lot less money in your snack bar and on your video games etc.

The reality is, as long as enough people are walking through the door paying that price, it's perfectly acceptable. This isn't the major issue that is "hurting" the sport as the dollar conscious social bowler should be aware by looking at any price board that if they join a league they can get a much cheaper rate. What is in fact hurting the sport is a number of things from economics through to perception of the game itself. There is no easy fix and dropping the game rate to $3 per game for everyone will simply put the majority of centres out of business.

lets be honest here. I think you'll find that the general perception is that bowling is outdated and way overpriced!

 

[lordofthepins]

Wayne, your comment re bowlin being outdated and overpriced, summed it up SO right!!

So how do we change the perception of this, as a means to attract new bowlers both juniors and adults back into the sport???

I use to take kids from my school where I use to work to bowl after school once a week, give them a bit of coaching, then have a game.. I tried!! Some of them are bowling in junior/bumper leagues..thats good!! I did this for 3 years..never had a thank you from AMF, nor did I ever get a kickback or anything.. I did it for the kids, but if thats how they treat me a humble league bowler as a persone who is bringing in money to their business to their doors for nothing, then imagine how they treat "non valued" customers!!!!!

The average adult may never have considered league bowling as an option, let alone their kids.. Why is that??? Most of these families coming into the centre, pay their money, get STUNG!!, leave after spending some reasonable dough, and don't come back for another 3-6 months I'm guessing...Sadly, there is no promotion on main stream media!!!! Seriously none!! Please don' take C31 bowling show the wrong way. I love the show, and watch it regulary..


Did u know Aussies won the Hockey World cup. I did, it was mentioned on radio, and was in newspaper, and on TV durin the sport section of the news... When Belmo won last year, was there anything here????

I have so many questions, but not one definitive answer to any of them...

 

[Phluff]

Wayne: I did say very rough!
Min wage for casuals US$7-8 p/h compared to AU$18.50 p/h.
Oil & Conditioner about US$10+ per day compared to AU$20+ per day
Parts on average 150%-200% over US prices depending on supplier.
My point is that it's CLOSE ENOUGH to the current $4.50-5.50 game rate provided to league bowlers based on the US$2 rates mentioned.

Sure the idea of having the lanes going at $3 a game is great... so is going to see a movie at the dead 11am sessions for $5. Not going to happen tho. The best you get is the majority of companies offer "discount nights" and cheaper weekday specials to fill in dead time. There are plenty of shop-a-docket vouchers out there for AMF and other venues offering 2 games for $14-16. There are select days and times where bowling is $5-6 per game to all bowlers. School rates are around $4-5 to encourage them to bring in groups. etc.

Bowling is failing for so many other reasons, here are just a few quick ones:
Because there isn't enough promotion going on in mainstream media.
Because nobody associates bowling indoors with being active, something media is pushing parents to get their kids to be.
Because too many "serious" bowlers take the fun out of league when you finally get people in there.
Because bowling bars hit the spot perfectly and now more 18-30yr olds think of bowling as nothing more than a night of disco lights and drinks.
And yes, as Wayne said, because bowling's image is about 20yrs out of date.

 

[Gary]

just mention my name and you'll receive a special 50% surcharge.

 

[jimcross]

"Everybody talks about the weather, but nobody does anything about it." If Mark Twain was here to-day, I wonder what he'd say on this thread?