AMF Game Rates?
- Thread starter STEROID
- Start date
tonx
New Member
Magpie.
On the loyalty card aspect, I know that Oztenpin centres (Victoria's largest chain of Independant centres) do a "kickback" program, where apon returning social bowlers are treated to a $15 for 2 games discounted price. Not quite as cheap as league rates, but far from being considered expensive compared to the alternative.
For league bowlers, they also have the option of hiring the lanes by the hour, at $20 an hour. In most of their centres, you can also set up any spare combination for practise, or even just bowl at full decks for the entire hour. Bring in a couple of friends, and give them a little notice, and they will usually also give you an oilling condition that you wish to practise on.
On the loyalty card aspect, I know that Oztenpin centres (Victoria's largest chain of Independant centres) do a "kickback" program, where apon returning social bowlers are treated to a $15 for 2 games discounted price. Not quite as cheap as league rates, but far from being considered expensive compared to the alternative.
For league bowlers, they also have the option of hiring the lanes by the hour, at $20 an hour. In most of their centres, you can also set up any spare combination for practise, or even just bowl at full decks for the entire hour. Bring in a couple of friends, and give them a little notice, and they will usually also give you an oilling condition that you wish to practise on.
WAC4504
State Side
ADP has hit on a great idea. Why not petition a US Co to open a center or chain of centers in Australia?, such as Brunswick? They make balls in Mexico so why not centers in Australia? And let's face it guys what's to loose?, the worst they can do is turn you down and laugh at you. You know the old saying of MONEY TALKS so start doing it. Take your league to an independent center, and maybe negotiate rates to insure future bowlers. One thing is for certain though, the longer you keep feeding the beast the bigger it's going to grow. I have to say that it takes great dedication to the sport to pay the kind of rates you're paying.
Unfortunately, this will only (in my opinion) make AMF happier! Who wants those pesky league bowlers cluttering the lanes when we can have 3 full paying adults bowling instead!!!
wchester
Bowling Tragic
I suppose AMF pricing is predicated upon a break-even point which is based on a specific number on games per lane bed. Therein lies the problem. They seem to believe that under no circumstances should they discount a social game of bowling simply becae someone at Corporate headquarters has decreed that they need to charge that amount for each and every game that is paid for by social bowlers. I personally know of a couple of instances where a bowler has approached an AMF centre and offered to buy a large block of games at a discopunt, only to be turned away because AMF Corporate has stressed this 'break even' per game price to the individual managers.
Seriously, if someone who does not currently bowl in your centre offered to give you an extra 2-3 thousand dollars up front for unlimited open play bowling, would you turn it down and let them walk away from y6our centre, never to return? You'd have to be out of your mind to say no to such a deal, but that's exactly what AMF did on more than one occasion.
I've managed a few bowling centres. One here in Australia and couple back in the USA. I always felt that the best policy was to see that everyone who walked thru my doors, went home completely satisfied that they had received value for their money. If a customer has $100 in their pocket when they come into my bowl, I want them to spend all of it with me. This doesn't mean we should charge them so much for their bowling, that they can't afford or refuse to spend money on food, drink, video games and any other ancillary activities within the bowl.
Maybe Rob Garioch can tell us his 'break-even' price point and his lineage per lane bed. Only then can I answer his question as to how much I think he should charge per game.
Seriously, if someone who does not currently bowl in your centre offered to give you an extra 2-3 thousand dollars up front for unlimited open play bowling, would you turn it down and let them walk away from y6our centre, never to return? You'd have to be out of your mind to say no to such a deal, but that's exactly what AMF did on more than one occasion.
I've managed a few bowling centres. One here in Australia and couple back in the USA. I always felt that the best policy was to see that everyone who walked thru my doors, went home completely satisfied that they had received value for their money. If a customer has $100 in their pocket when they come into my bowl, I want them to spend all of it with me. This doesn't mean we should charge them so much for their bowling, that they can't afford or refuse to spend money on food, drink, video games and any other ancillary activities within the bowl.
Maybe Rob Garioch can tell us his 'break-even' price point and his lineage per lane bed. Only then can I answer his question as to how much I think he should charge per game.
bowlrig
Just A Bowler
It's not about my Centre, the question that is. I was just curious to see what bowlers thought should be charged.
We charge $5.00 for under 5 years old. We do not charge as much as our city cousins for any of our game rates.
Rob
bluey
Member
For me the 4 for $18 isn't to bad, l commonly use the 6 for $24 offer. If it was $5.50 per game every time l simply wouldn't bowl as much. It's not about only having a certain amount to spend each time l bowl, it's about value for money. If 6 games cost me $33 l wouldn't bowl so many, but l have bowled 12 for $48 on numerous occasions, that to me is ok, just. (of course l'd like to go back to paying $2.50 per game from the 90's) The cheaper it is, the more people will bowl, it's infectious.
lordofthepins
Member
I was a member of my local tennis club for many,many years. That entitled me to play anytime with the exception of Sat mornings and afternoons due to competition.. Basically anytime, and as often as I would like. It cost me only $150..
I would be happy to pay $2000 for the same deal with a bowling centre, would the average AMF centre go for this???? This obviously is when a lane is available... But does not include any league play, so I would still cough up the $20 each week. Anyone think they might buy it????
I can also remember a year or two ago, a summer $60 card, where u can bowl 2 games every day, that was good.. However I really enjoyed last summers 3 games for $10 card that u could reuse.. That to me, that respresented fantastic value... Shame AMF only did this during their quietest period of the year.. I loved that card, and used it as often as I could afford.. Did anyone else use it often???
I would be happy to pay $2000 for the same deal with a bowling centre, would the average AMF centre go for this???? This obviously is when a lane is available... But does not include any league play, so I would still cough up the $20 each week. Anyone think they might buy it????
I can also remember a year or two ago, a summer $60 card, where u can bowl 2 games every day, that was good.. However I really enjoyed last summers 3 games for $10 card that u could reuse.. That to me, that respresented fantastic value... Shame AMF only did this during their quietest period of the year.. I loved that card, and used it as often as I could afford.. Did anyone else use it often???
There is a very simple solution to this that AMF will find out sooner or later.
Go and bowl in a private centre or one that you dont think charges too much.
Support a centre that doesn't lay down a ditch just to get a 300 every week and get people in the door.
Support the centres that are there for the bowlers as well, not just for themselves.
If they truly need to overcharge then they either have a bad business model or they are too far in debt. Neither is good.
Go and bowl in a private centre or one that you dont think charges too much.
Support a centre that doesn't lay down a ditch just to get a 300 every week and get people in the door.
Support the centres that are there for the bowlers as well, not just for themselves.
If they truly need to overcharge then they either have a bad business model or they are too far in debt. Neither is good.
nev25
-
WOW Chris Look what you started
Where you been haven't seen you around for a while
I feel your pain and agree with most that has been posted and it don't seem fair
However From a business view
I was told by a manager of a centre that at the end of the day they add up the total number of cycles the pin-spotters do in a day and compare it to the money that has been handed across the counter and I guess minus staff costs and utilities etc
And out of all this data comes the price structure
I was told this is done on a daily basis??
So at the end of the day the pinsetters still cycle the same way if a 2 year old or an 62 year old person rolled the ball !!
Still uses the same amount of Electricity still requires the same staff member to fix and setup etc
I also think Ten Pin Bowling is expensive and if it was cheaper I would bowl more often But the centres are a business and have to make a profit or they close simple economics.
Correct me if I'm wrong but aren,t the less expensive sports mentioned above (golf etc) non for profit organizations??
Non for profit organizations are a completely different setup for example they usually pay no tax the get cheaper insurance etc and are run by committees
As far as the macas scenario goes I Had to do a business course which was just a formally as I had previously run 2 business.
During the course one of the lectures made a statement that
McDonald's don't sell food they sell Toys!!!
Harvey Norman don't sell furniture they sell finance
Based on that One could say
AMF don't sell bowling they sell Kids party's!!!
And yes I agree AMF and the TBA don't seem to really care about the long term effects or the future of the sport at all
If thing don't change soon and some mechanisms put in place to promote the sport and get More bowlers more centre will close
Then maybe it would be time for a few of us to form a committees and run a Non for profit centres
BTW my local centre does do a cheaper rate for Junior
And the purchase of buying bulk games has been discussed here before with most mangers saying they will do it???
Where you been haven't seen you around for a while
I feel your pain and agree with most that has been posted and it don't seem fair
However From a business view
I was told by a manager of a centre that at the end of the day they add up the total number of cycles the pin-spotters do in a day and compare it to the money that has been handed across the counter and I guess minus staff costs and utilities etc
And out of all this data comes the price structure
I was told this is done on a daily basis??
So at the end of the day the pinsetters still cycle the same way if a 2 year old or an 62 year old person rolled the ball !!
Still uses the same amount of Electricity still requires the same staff member to fix and setup etc
I also think Ten Pin Bowling is expensive and if it was cheaper I would bowl more often But the centres are a business and have to make a profit or they close simple economics.
Correct me if I'm wrong but aren,t the less expensive sports mentioned above (golf etc) non for profit organizations??
Non for profit organizations are a completely different setup for example they usually pay no tax the get cheaper insurance etc and are run by committees
As far as the macas scenario goes I Had to do a business course which was just a formally as I had previously run 2 business.
During the course one of the lectures made a statement that
McDonald's don't sell food they sell Toys!!!
Harvey Norman don't sell furniture they sell finance
Based on that One could say
AMF don't sell bowling they sell Kids party's!!!
And yes I agree AMF and the TBA don't seem to really care about the long term effects or the future of the sport at all
If thing don't change soon and some mechanisms put in place to promote the sport and get More bowlers more centre will close
Then maybe it would be time for a few of us to form a committees and run a Non for profit centres
BTW my local centre does do a cheaper rate for Junior
And the purchase of buying bulk games has been discussed here before with most mangers saying they will do it???
Thanks so much for everyones contribution to this post. It has definitely exceeded my expectations of what would be talked about.
Nev25... sorry for not replying that much. I posted this last weekend and replied on the weekend a couple of times, but I've been flat out with work until now (Friday night).
I have enjoyed reading all of the comments, but here are a couple more thoughts.
The first concern is the amount of bowlers (of all skill level) that have said that their child will not be brought up as a bowler. I think I even read that Jason Belmonte's daughter will be taking up tennis rather than bowling. Although I understand that bowling is expensive and without much return on investment, how can we be excited about the future when our own community doesn't even want our kids to take up the sport. I'm introducing my daughter to "rolly balls" (as my daughter puts it) when she wants to go, but I'll also introduce her to other sports and let her decide what she wants to do from there. If we (and especially our high profile bowlers) don't even want their kids to bowl, how are we ever supposed to lift the profile of the sport in Australia?
Secondly, I don't think that AMF will ever change their prices unless we get the idea to the general public that there is a massive difference between what we (the league bowler) pay and what the general public pay for 1 game. This is why I advocate and primarily bowl at independent centres because they can vary their prices a bit for the general population (and often do like Rob has stated for under 5 year olds) and still make a profit. In any case, if people are happy with paying extreme prices for playing 1 game that takes up only 10 minutes of their time, then AMF will continue to charge that (and so they should make a major profit if people are happy with it).
Just a couple more things to think about... I'm enjoying the conversation so keep the discussion going and when I have time and can get on, I'll continue the conversation.
Chris
Nev25... sorry for not replying that much. I posted this last weekend and replied on the weekend a couple of times, but I've been flat out with work until now (Friday night).
I have enjoyed reading all of the comments, but here are a couple more thoughts.
The first concern is the amount of bowlers (of all skill level) that have said that their child will not be brought up as a bowler. I think I even read that Jason Belmonte's daughter will be taking up tennis rather than bowling. Although I understand that bowling is expensive and without much return on investment, how can we be excited about the future when our own community doesn't even want our kids to take up the sport. I'm introducing my daughter to "rolly balls" (as my daughter puts it) when she wants to go, but I'll also introduce her to other sports and let her decide what she wants to do from there. If we (and especially our high profile bowlers) don't even want their kids to bowl, how are we ever supposed to lift the profile of the sport in Australia?
Secondly, I don't think that AMF will ever change their prices unless we get the idea to the general public that there is a massive difference between what we (the league bowler) pay and what the general public pay for 1 game. This is why I advocate and primarily bowl at independent centres because they can vary their prices a bit for the general population (and often do like Rob has stated for under 5 year olds) and still make a profit. In any case, if people are happy with paying extreme prices for playing 1 game that takes up only 10 minutes of their time, then AMF will continue to charge that (and so they should make a major profit if people are happy with it).
Just a couple more things to think about... I'm enjoying the conversation so keep the discussion going and when I have time and can get on, I'll continue the conversation.
Chris
WAC4504
State Side
Hey guys let me throw this at you, I went bowling after work today for 2 hours and bowled 10 games, and it only costed me $10.00. There's no real reason why you shouldn't be able to do the same. The bowling center I bowl at does lots of business needless to say, and AMF could to if they got there heads out of their backsides. From what I've been reading it would have cost me around $55.00 to bowl at an AMF center. There's no way I could afford to do that even once a week. As it is now I bowl 2-3 times a week plus league. Some one wrote that the most expensive lane was an empty one and they're right. By the way had a 194 average after 10 games.
lordofthepins
Member
Ok, I'm moving to Texas Yee Haaaaaa,I'm just gonna saddle up my horse first!!!
Trying to think what AMF Aus would give u for 10 games (as a league bowler), I'm guessing 10 games for $40 or around that mark...I know I bowled Sat avo 5 games for $20.. I honestly spend $60 a week on 2 leagues plus practise... Huge total of 10 games per week... Yes 10 games only, I want to be as good as I can be, improving well, still.....
With my $60, I am guessing in your centre WAC4504 I could probably get one league ($15-20 ??), then equivalent of between 30-40 practise games per week.... compare that with my total of 10, pretty dismal.
Imagine that I'd have hundreds of more attempts at screwing up my spares.lol
This week I enquired about my 2 eldest boys joining an afterschool league, total for 2 games each $12.. total of $24 each week for them...... I am looking at other activities as well, there are so many other options, and CHEAPER ones out there.... What do u do??? Need to think on this one, as my kids are happy to do anything, great little guys!!
Anyone from AMF reading this??? Love yout thoughts on what many here have been questioning and discussing re your prices..
Trying to think what AMF Aus would give u for 10 games (as a league bowler), I'm guessing 10 games for $40 or around that mark...I know I bowled Sat avo 5 games for $20.. I honestly spend $60 a week on 2 leagues plus practise... Huge total of 10 games per week... Yes 10 games only, I want to be as good as I can be, improving well, still.....
With my $60, I am guessing in your centre WAC4504 I could probably get one league ($15-20 ??), then equivalent of between 30-40 practise games per week.... compare that with my total of 10, pretty dismal.
Imagine that I'd have hundreds of more attempts at screwing up my spares.lol
This week I enquired about my 2 eldest boys joining an afterschool league, total for 2 games each $12.. total of $24 each week for them...... I am looking at other activities as well, there are so many other options, and CHEAPER ones out there.... What do u do??? Need to think on this one, as my kids are happy to do anything, great little guys!!
Anyone from AMF reading this??? Love yout thoughts on what many here have been questioning and discussing re your prices..
lordofthepins
Member
Ooops, sorry, Tennasee, not Texas, forget the horse, I'm off to Graceland!!
jimcross
Active Member
Always ? Or just now?
