Interstate Team Costs.

[The Spanner]

Our De Veer team has been told that the approximate cost of the trip to Illawarra later this year will be about $1000 each. This includes Accomodation, Lineage for both squads and the tournament and our uniform. It doesn't include Airfare. We are currently busy fundraising to try and knock the costs down, and we are succeeding quite well with targets. Total Cost for team to be around $18k.

I've heard that some teams are told their costs maybe in the range of $3000 per player. That is $51k, when you add in the 2 managers and a coach.

How do the costs get that high? Ok .. throw in some airfares (which can be pretty cheap apart from getting there from WA), but where does the money go? Are you staying 5 star? Are you chipping in for the coach (this has been mentioned as a way to get the coach a few people want in our team). Do you get a new uniform for every day? Are private helicopters taking you to and from the bowl every day? Do you celebrate with Moet if you win a game?

I'm just concerned that if the costs are posted before the roll-offs, it may be detrimental to the numbers at the roll off. I'm also concerned for parents who have to fork out the money for a promising junior to compete ... where better juniors might be left at home due to affordability.

3 grand doesn't make any sense at all .... can anyone shed some light on this?

Spanner.

 

[Andrew S.]

This sounds very much like the North Qld Shield Teams.
Sadly in NQ entry into the Shield Team is restricted to those juniors whose parents can afford that kind of costing.
It is doing nothing for Tenpin Bowling and it appears to be an accepted fact of life up there in Mango Land. Which is a pity because their Rachuig and De Veer Committees seem to have a much fairer idea of how to go about things.

 

[The Spanner]

So .. if the figure of 3 grand is correct ... I wonder what it covers? Does the team send down a ball polisher and a physiotherapist?

 

[Andrew S.]

Well to start with the uniforms cost around $450 each. There is also a live in training camp which costs who knows. Plus the adults accompanying them are heavily subsidised. (2 Managers 2 coaches and maybe chaperones.)
Fact is it is an incredibly expensive exercise to bowl Pres Shield in NQ. and it is prohibitive to a lot of Juniors.
It is probably time this NQ business was made public - it would be nice to hear a comment from someone involved in the Team selection up North.
There again maybe everyone up there is a rich and benevolent Mango Plantation owner and they don't really worry about the cost.

 

[The Spanner]

Well to start with the uniforms cost around $450 each. There is also a live in training camp which costs who knows. Plus the adults accompanying them are heavily subsidised. (2 Managers 2 coaches and maybe chaperones.)
Fact is it is an incredibly expensive exercise to bowl Pres Shield in NQ. and it is prohibitive to a lot of Juniors.
It is probably time this NQ business was made public - it would be nice to hear a comment from someone involved in the Team selection up North.
There again maybe everyone up there is a rich and benevolent Mango Plantation owner and they don't really worry about the cost.

$450 for Uniforms? .. Two shirts (About $55 each for Sublimated), A pair of pants ($35) and a Jacket / Tracksuit top (About $60). Thats about $205. So .. what else do they get?

Subsidised Managers and Coaches? ...Chaperones? ... Your pulling my leg. Is this only in NQ?

 

[Andrew S.]

I don't know how the other States work Pete. I have a reasonable working knowledge of Qld North and South but I would be surprised if the other States levied their Juniors with those costs.
I have seen a budget for 2005 and you are quite right it is close to $3000 per player.

 

[Poodle]

Hi Andrew and Spanner

Here is a brake down for the nq junior presidents shield team

Airfare $483.00
Accommodation $550.00 (for 11 nights)
Bus Hire & Fuel $167.00
Trainings $422.00 (4 weekends)
P-S Bowlinf fees $142.00
Championship fees $209.00
P-s meals $100.00
uniform $432.00 (p-s and championships)
Subsidy for Coaches,Managers, Chap $220.0O

TOTAL $2725.00
Plus Food money for 8 days
Plus spending money

from a very broke mum and dad as we have 2 kids in the team
so if any one out there would like to help out in any way let us know
lol

 

[The Spanner]

Hi Andrew and Spanner

Here is a brake down for the nq junior presidents shield team

Airfare $483.00
Accommodation $550.00 (for 11 nights)
Bus Hire & Fuel $167.00
Trainings $422.00 (4 weekends)
P-S Bowlinf fees $142.00
Championship fees $209.00
P-s meals $100.00
uniform $432.00 (p-s and championships)
Subsidy for Coaches,Managers, Chap $220.0O

TOTAL $2725.00
Plus Food money for 8 days
Plus spending money

from a very broke mum and dad as we have 2 kids in the team
so if any one out there would like to help out in any way let us know
lol

Presidents Shield Meals $100? ... Are they feeding them lobster for the three days, or are you hiring Jamie Oliver to cook for the team? What happened to the good old Chicken Sambo?

Why do they need a uniform for the championships? I can understand the Pres Cup Uniforms ... wouldn't a 'training shirt' suffice for the champs?

$440 for training weekends? I'm sure the kids have their own coaches at their own centre ... why can't the head coach just liase with them? If it's a 'bonding session', I'm sure the kids will gel just fine at the Nats.

Well ... there is about $700 in what i would think was unneccesary spending ...

Spanner.

 

[The Spanner]

And you are flying Qantas ... Virgin is about $40 cheaper.

 

[angel]

I was just wondering who Spanner is??

Also i was wondering how you found out the cost of the team for NQ when you are from SQ??

There also has to be 4 training camps for NQ because not every bowl has a qualified coach to help them...Our team members travel from as far west as Mt Isa, to be able to be coached by a High Proformanced Coach...Not every centre has that...Also Townsville is the only place that provides lanes conditions that are similar to shield...

By the way we had a record number of kids roll off this year and they all knew the amount before they put their names down to roll off...So everyone knew what they were getting into before they named the team.

 

[The Spanner]

Well Jessica ... my name is Peter. I'm involved with De Veer in SQ.

The $3k was something I heard (due to some people asking questions), then confirmed by more than one person, including Poodle who posted it above. We are talking Juniors, so in a lot of cases, the parents are paying the fees. I think they would have a right to question where their money goes and why or how it could be made more affordable.

Nice to see you got so many at the roll-offs. I hope you got the best team that NQ could put on the lanes, not just the best team 'available'.

How many people in the team are from Mt Isa, Cairns, Mackay or Townsville? Can you give me a breakdown?

Why do you need so many uniforms? Why do you need 2 jackets? To add to your collection? Last time I was in your area, I certainly didn't need a jacket.

 

[Poodle]

yes we no how much it was going to be but i did not no that both of my kids would roll into the top 5
spanner here is the break down of bowlers
mt isa 1
mackay 3
townsville 5
cairns 11
all 2 managers,2 coaches,1 chap from cairns


kelbell

 

[Poodle]

hi spanner
the reason we have so many uniforms is we are the only team that takes a championship squad away so we need a championship uniform as we all so use this as our travel uniform and we have a p-s uniform

kelbell

 

[The Spanner]

So .. you are up for $5.5k ?

WOW .... now there is a bowling bill.

 

[Joel_01]

Hi Pete,

You seem to know alot about the NQ team - however you seem to have gotten some of you facts wrong. I am part of the NQ team and so let me just set a few things straight:

1. Those of us who did shield last year wouldn't have to have new jackets, if we didn't have to change our team name from North Queensland to 'Queensland North'. You also said that last time you came to this area - meaning NQ - you didn't need a jacket. Well guess what? Nationals aren't in NQ - they are in Canberra - IN WINTER! Therefore it maybe just a little bit cooler down there and we do want to keep warm!

2. You also said that we could fly down to Canberra with Virgin and it would be cheaper. Well it isn't! When you actually inquire and get your facts you find that you may save on airfare but then you pay more in access luggage as Virgin do not transport sporting equipment free, unlike Qantas who make some allowances for this.

3. In other sports, such as soccer and hockey, coaches, managers and chaperones are fully subsidized. Personally, I do not mind subsidizing the adults, as without them the NQ team would not be able to even go down!

4. You complained about cost of training camps implying that team members are able to access adequet coaching from their local centres. However this is incorrect, as there are no high performance coaches at Mt Isa or Townsville. Myself and many other members of the team find these camps extremely fun and benificial and I would not be the only one to complain if they stopped happening.

If you want to make this your business then maybe you should find out what actually is happening with costs by contacting the appropriate people.

Joel

NQ President Shield Member (and PROUD of it!)

 

[Peanut]

2. You also said that we could fly down to Canberra with Virgin and it would be cheaper. Well it isn't! When you actually inquire and get your facts you find that you may save on airfare but then you pay more in access luggage as Virgin do not transport sporting equipment free, unlike Qantas who make some allowances for this.

Ive been going virgin to every nationals and when ever I go interstate, since Virgin started, I have never been charged access luggage for bowling equipment. I know of Jetstar charging but not Virgin....

Ash

 

[The Spanner]

Hi Pete,

You seem to know alot about the NQ team - however you seem to have gotten some of you facts wrong. I am part of the NQ team and so let me just set a few things straight:

1. Those of us who did shield last year wouldn't have to have new jackets, if we didn't have to change our team name from North Queensland to 'Queensland North'. You also said that last time you came to this area - meaning NQ - you didn't need a jacket. Well guess what? Nationals aren't in NQ - they are in Canberra - IN WINTER! Therefore it maybe just a little bit cooler down there and we do want to keep warm!

2. You also said that we could fly down to Canberra with Virgin and it would be cheaper. Well it isn't! When you actually inquire and get your facts you find that you may save on airfare but then you pay more in access luggage as Virgin do not transport sporting equipment free, unlike Qantas who make some allowances for this.

3. In other sports, such as soccer and hockey, coaches, managers and chaperones are fully subsidized. Personally, I do not mind subsidizing the adults, as without them the NQ team would not be able to even go down!

4. You complained about cost of training camps implying that team members are able to access adequet coaching from their local centres. However this is incorrect, as there are no high performance coaches at Mt Isa or Townsville. Myself and many other members of the team find these camps extremely fun and benificial and I would not be the only one to complain if they stopped happening.

If you want to make this your business then maybe you should find out what actually is happening with costs by contacting the appropriate people.

Joel

NQ President Shield Member (and PROUD of it!)

Hi Joel ...
How many of the people in your team have part time / full time jobs? If you are working, would you subsidise kids who arent?

Point 1. Yes .. $140 worth of two new jackets that you will wear for 1 week, before they are consigned to the cupboard until next year, when you will get another 2 if you don't age out.

Point 2. I've never been charged excess by Virgin either. As peanut points out, Jetstar have that rather annoying habit.

Point 3. In some sports, whole teams have been subsidised. I've never heard of chaperones being subsidised. Don't you think 2 managers and 2 coaches could handle 20 kids? Are the De Veer and Rachuig coaches and managers subsidised like this?

Point 4. I didn't complain about the costs (i don't have to pay 3k to go), i merely highlighted them. More than one of the parents of team members has contacted me and sent me the costings, i'd take this as a sign of a 'concerned at costs' parents. There seems to be a lot of members from Cairns ... and they have just had all their lanes re-surfaced ... ever heard of billeting?

And proud of it ???? I never questioned if you were or not.

Best of luck in shield. I'll be keeping an eye on it to see how you guys go.

Peter.

 

[The Conscience]

NQ President Shield Costs?

The Spanner

I have no doubt that under the ADULT banner you have greater autonomy to organise your own flights etc. However, when dealing with juniors, management must operate under the CHILD PROTECTION ACT and we need to take into account our duty of care which means an Adult needs to travel with a child at all times.

Since when did South Queensland, or should I say QUEENSLAND SOUTH take only one coach away for two teams in the Juniour ranks!!!

We mustn't be confused between Adult expectations and Junior expectations.

In relation to jackets being put into the cupboard after a week and getting new ones again next year, this is a lot of hogwash!! We recycle when we can (jackets,trousers and skirts) Due to the name change forced upon us those team members who were in the team last year now face the added cost. The juniors of North Queensland are very proud of making the team and wear their jackets throughout our own winter. WHICH IS COLD FOR US!!!! Do you recommend that since we come from MANGO LAND we should turn up in singlets, boxer shorts and thongs!!! Come on it is Canberra we are talking about and it was -7 in the morning in 2000 when this event was held in Canberra. We're not as thick as southerners, (in relation to our blood) so we need our extra warmth.

We recieve nothing financially from TBAQ or recieve the FREE services of the STATE coach (flights, accom and meals must be paid for) but we have all the limitations and constraints put on us so that our precious body can retain it's title and get the government grants that we see nothing of. MAYBE IT IS TIME THAT WE BECAME A SEPARATE ASSOCIATION

SPANNER, your knowledge of this topic it would seem is limited, and maybe the information that has been forwarded to you was intented to fracture NORTH QUEENSLAND rather than unify it.

It seems that those of you who are "BAGGING" members of your sport may not be aware that you are actually in breach of the TBAL code of ethics. I hope that the appropriate TBA "watchdog" has taken interest in this particular forum topic.

It is dissappointing to those hard working, dedicated, volunteer parents who put their hand up to support the juniors and don't just travel to the location for a holiday to watch. They are being vilified for giving up their time, for the great personal expenses that are never claimed against the team to try to deliver the appropriate preparation for the event.

YOU CAN NOT COMPARE THE EXPENSES OF A CAPITAL CITY FOCUSSED TEAM TO A DIVERSE COUNTRY TEAM such as we face in NORTH QUEENSLAND.

For two years NORTH QUEENSLAND had twice the appropriate sponsorship to conduct the Junior Nationals and even after the success of the Adult Nationals we were denied the right to host the event. WHERE IS OUR COMPENSATION FOR THAT!!!!!!!!!

SPANNER should you wish to clarify things with all the facts, why don't you contact somebody from the North Queensland Junior Committee. Perhaps an official word would have put a stop to this speculation and downputting of alleged policies and practices.

THANK YOU FOR RAISING THIS TOPIC FOR DISCUSSION AS IT HIGHLIGHTS THE DISUNITY TENPIN BOWLING SEEMS TO HAVE AUSTRALIA WIDE. AND PERHAPS THIS IS THE REASON WHY TENPIN BOWLING WILL NOT GO FORWARD TO OLYMPIC LEVEL AND MAINSTREAM SPORT.

 

[scoreggia]

This is a very interesting topic although now it seems its causing some hostility between people. It would seem to me that all state team costs should be relatively the same apart from the travel costs, which of course depend on the distance one would have to travel. Everyone also seems to agree that compulsory uniforms should be kept to a minimum (one shirt, one jacket) and extras can be purchased if they like. It’s also understood, across the board in any sport, with the costs involved at high level participation only those that can meet those costs will be included.
My question though is wouldn’t a very successful turnout for a roll off for a state team mean some reduction in team costs? I thought roll-off costs would cover lineage and also help fund the qualifying team. Initial team costs would have to be based on conservative numbers but if roll-off saw a good turnout then I would hope that team costs would then be reduced. The Associations represent the bowlers so wouldn’t they owe it to their members to disclose all financials in regards to these types of events. Or is this all about them not being upfront about what the costs cover? I guess as a parent I would probably want to be well informed with anything my kids were involved with and I don’t see any grounds in this stream for the TBA WATCHDOGS to be too concerned about. After all this is an open forum where people can discuss topics of interest with anonymity.
Just my opinion so please don’t analyze this or crucify me.

 

[angel]

Interstate Team Costs

Roll-off Total Cost in NQ is $70 which covers 16 games. What do others pay for roll-off? NO-one rolling off subsidises the eventual team.