There is no justice - or so it seems

[Disgruntled]

Well, I have read lots of posts here, never been inclined to register, but after what I heard Sunday, it is time to get facts out in the open and see what everyone has to say.

As a great admirer of one of the three women who were disqualified from the SA Rachuig Trials, I decided to go down to Noarlunga to watch the State Championships last Sunday.

While there, I was talking to someone who is in the know about things that go on here in SA.

I had heard various rumours why these women were disqualified, but when I heard another side to the story, I was "disgruntled" (hence my name) and absolutely disgusted.

As I said, I only heard what was said to me, so maybe now someone can tell me the facts.

It would appear that these three women were bowling Rachuig trials. One of the women put in a protest about another of these women in question. The protest was considered to be in "poor taste", and all three women were summoned to the Tournament Room and were "Red carded", i.e. disqualified. There was no yellow card displayed - i.e. a warning, there were no verbal warnings.

Apparently the person who red carded them is a prominent male member of TBA Limited who shall remain nameless. The women were given no alternative but to cease bowling in the middle of the trials, and leave the centre.

As far as I know, all three of them have demanded an appeal, and all three have been refused the right to an appeal. I don't know the full facts, but it would appear that both TBA SA, and TBA Limited have denied these women the opportunity to be heard.

Apparently in the sport of ten-pin, you don't have a right to protest, you don't have a right to an appeal and you are guilty because someone has said you are.

It would also appear that bowlers have heard conflicting stories about what happened that day, but the bottom line is, "WHERE THE HELL IS BOWLING GOING". We live in a democratic country, and everyone has a right to be heard.

Why do I feel so strongly about this? well it is because all sports have a governing body, including ten-pin, and if the governing body can't give their participants the right to appeal, then we might just as well all give up bowling.

The person who red carded them denied his actions, and the TBA officials, whoever they are, decided to believe him. Just not on.

I would like to hear others points of views on this matter, but please don't comment on hearsay, comment on the facts as they really are.

The SA Ladies Rachuig Team this year is pathetic, the "Powers that Be" have denide arguably the States top three female bowlers from being a part of that team. Sorry ladies, but it is fact, and I don't apologise for my comments.

 

[AdrianS]

I don't know where to start, words(at least ones that can be used on a public forum) fail me over this one. Jeez whats Jo ever done to hurt anyone!

 

[Disgruntled]

Adrian, Jo is the woman bowler who I went to watch on Sunday. Jo is a lovely person who will stand up for what she believes in and what really makes me mad is that I know she has helped a lot of people with their bowling and yet it would appear that not one of those women supported her or the other two when it mattered. Course not, with those three out the way it only left 7 women,so all would make Rachuig. I don't know Jo that well, but I do know she has integrity, stands up for what she believes in and from what I heard, she was an innocent party in this. She didn't put in the protest and even if she did, everyone has a right to protest. I do know the protest was written because of comments made to her directly from another female bowler who was amongst those disqualified, and I do know the protest was valid.

I am absolutely disgusted with the way our sport is being run here in SA. I don't care whether the people who are members of TBA SA are doing the job voluntarily - i.e. no pay, I admire anyone who does voluntary work, BUT THEY HAVE TO STILL BE ACCOUNTABLE FOR THEIR ACTIONS.

I'm outer here


People will believe what they want to believe, I believe in what I know is fact.

 

[DJ Luko]

they can go further like go to a court or something i think.. but then u think is it really worth all that?

all i say is move to tasmania.. its all good down here!

peace out

loco

 

[milkman]

Disgruntled,

You've heard one side of the story. While there may have been some poor decisions made during the tournament to hold a meeting during qualifying, you say the ladies were given "no choice" but to leave.

They were in fact given 3 choices I believe, which included just ignoring each other and bowling on. However, it seems this wasnt enough for one or two, and TBA stated that they all had to agree, and if one walked, they all had to walk, and thats what happened.

I do believe there is some serious issues over there in S.A. Im sure the bowlers are getting sick of it, and Im sure it wont be long before they either give up, or defect to another state. I already know one who is, who had her decision to move more justified after junior nationals.

 

[ms]

Disgruntled,

Since you have soooooo much to say how bout you have the guts to put your name to it!!! It might also help if you had more than ONE side of the events from 'that wonderful weekend' in question!!!!!

 

[JoSpencer]

It seems as hard as I and others involved in this debacle are trying to lay it to rest the more it keeps coming up.

I refuse to write detail for detail on this website as quite frankly, the facts of this situation are no one else’s business other than those involved.

I will say that a verbal statement being directed toward myself was the catalyst of the situation. The verbal abuse was unprovoked and certainly not warranted, I did not personally react in the players area to the statement. A written complaint was put in (by another bowler) and 3 ladies (we all know that it is Martina, Allison and myself) were given 3 options:

1. Go back out and play and act like team mates (hence dismissing the complaint and therefore accepting bowlers can verbally abuse other competitors even though 2 of the men had been carded for swearing during the trials)
2. We don’t send a state team away at all
3. If one decides not to continue all 3 are Red Carded.

Option 3 was taken by one of the bowlers leaving the other two of us with no options to take, we were automatically RED CARDED.

There was no opportunity to discuss the circumstances of the altercation, there was no opportunity to understand why it had occurred.

If the situation had have been handled professionally by the tournament committee there would have been an opportunity to find out all the facts as to why the altercation had taken place. I have since found out that it was the belief of Martina that I had refused to “take 5” from her after a strike and this is why she called me what she called me! This is far from the truth and Martina knows I had been passing and accepting strikes all the way through the trial, however like I said if there was an opportunity to discuss the problems then Martina would have had the opportunity to explain what her interpretation was and why she yelled at me with abusive comments. If this happened we probably would have come to the conclusion that Martina had incorrectly over heard a small portion of a conversation and therefore likely to not have been disqualified and all 3 of us in the Rachuig team this year!!!

In closing, I know what MY involvement in the situation was and I know I was an innocent victim who was dragged into the altercation. You can believe what you want to believe, and believe who you want to believe, I know I am innocent.

Now that is enough that needs to be said of the situation. I hope that you will accept this explanation as the FINAL discussion on the issue. There are 3 bowlers involved here who still have a future within the sport. Until this situation is laid to rest by the wider bowling community it makes it harder and harder to move on and move forward.

What would have happened if Option 2 was taken!! TBA would have had 20 unhappy bowlers to deal with rather than 3, perhaps in hind sight this should have been the option taken!!!

Regards

Jo Spencer

 

[philby]

OK ms you say have the guts to say who you are yet you come on here under an alias yourself. Come on if you are fairdinkum you would identify yourself. And by the way my name is Phillip Allen everybody knows me as Philby. I dont really know whats going on in S.A. but for the good of bowling SORT IT OUT. there are a lot of people working real hard at the moment to get bowling some recognition. we dont need this crap.

if you dont like what i have to say dont listen

 

[JoSpencer]

Hi Philby, ms is Martina Smith.

jo

 

[Dj bruv on da mix]

You Can take it to the Sports Comission (appeals tribunral), as did a few olympic competitors did in the lead up to Sydney 2000, in which they won there appeal, so if you feel like the wrong decision was made (in which i think it was) take it there!

Mark Foster

 

[JoSpencer]

For the record I do not know who DISGRUNTLED is even though they say they came to watch me bowl?????

(so please stop text messaging me!!!!

Yes we could have taken it to the Sports Commission but if you knew the difficulties with TBA then you would understand why it was just not worth it in the end.

END OF MY STORY!

regards

Jo

 

[Tash]

Disgruntled, may I just say that we(the ladies team) are not pathetic!!! we are young but not pathetic!!!
It is very unfortunate what happened at the trials and believe me none of us wanted this to happen, Martina has been a friend of mine since juniors , Jo and Alley are also friends of mine, Jo also has helped me out numerous times including this year at the trials and i have a respect for all of them. I can tell u now that to this day we dont know details of what went on in the meeting that is between them, and frankly i really dont want to know.

They were given choices as Jo stated and that is what we were told, that is all we have been told!!!!

I dont think that you have any right to call us pathetic , it is not fair and i am sick of it, i am sure the team is aswell.
We dont deserve to be put down when we had nothing to do with what happened!

As i said it is unfortunate what happened and i am sure we all would have preferred that this never happened, but dont call us pathetic, what have i or any of the team done to be pathetic?????

What is pathetic is those people that keep bringing it up it happened and that is the facts we cant change that day so why dont u and everyone else leave it be and leave us alone!!!!

just wait till october ,see our results but never call us pathetic!!!!!!

 

[Alley]

Well what can I say other than, I along with many others thought this topic was over.

Seeing as the other two girls (ms & jb) have made an appearance on this issue, thought I may as well.

Firstly I too am amused, curious and intrigued a little as to who disgruntled may be as I know who I haven't talked too about this topic.

Secondly I never intended my actions or words on that day to be personal against Marty and that this has always been about TBA and the rules and regulations to which they expect all bowlers to abide by.

We could all go on about this topic but what is done is done and the powers that be have decided the issue is closed, so I guess it is up to the bowling public whether they wish to keep this old topic going.

Regards
Alley

 

[LEONONSKI]

U GO GALS........STAY TUNED 4 WWE BOWLING. hE, HE!

 

[LEONONSKI]

MAYBE JELLY?????

 

[DJ Luko]

jelly rings and bikinis hmmmmm

 

[strop]

Hello again, my, my!!! We are at it again!!!
I do agree with Jo and others that this topic no matter what happened and with who is deceased long time ago...as they say what's done is done!!!............but since you bought it up.........Disgruntled!!!!! You say and quote 'As a great admirer of one of these women..........well that's sad to start with!!! but anyway, on with it.....We all know at the top, with the lack of thought and inexperience the TBA of SA have with running top level (I say that losely) tournaments , thay just don't seem to get it right! But most are good people and try there best.
However the three bowlers in mention who are trying (and I certainly say this very losely) to be as professional as they can be with this sport....didn't show us that day of the trials. I will say this that one of them shouldn't have even been allowed to bowl this years trials, but was !!!...and rumours where flying by the other one or even two that they were not happy about TBA decision to let her bowl!. So I'm sure there was always a bit of tension there right from the start (no matter how small) ...so it was up to everyone to deal with it....but down to the last day...well jo wasn't firing all that well being out of the 7 in the morning and seeing martina on top at this stage...who knows what happened or even who wants to speculate!!!
As far as my thoughts are is that the two bowlers and one follower just couldn't get over there differences and just bowl!. And as far as the TBA ..the way it was handled....I will alway maintain, certainly NOT THE WAY IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN HANDLED. But that's that as they say!
The women will never cease to amaze me in this state...and the comment also Disgruntled made "The SA Ladies Rachuig Team this year is Pathetic" and this states top three bowlers not being part of this years team.......VERY BIG COMMENT TO MAKE......I am sure the other girls would like what you said. Australia sometime doesn't always take there best bowlers so why should we be any different!!!

Disgruntled...you went to see her bowl...and you think she the Queen of bowling is SA (or was me who said that...oh well) and has done nothing wrong except be a outstanding competitor and ambassador for this state!.....well thats your opinion and thats fine ...although others may say or seen different.............
I also believe what other say....stop hiding behind your name DISGRUNTLED if you have the guts.

DJ LUKO - all good in tassie....how boring!
Philby - sorry dear boy...comment withdrawn as it was only meant in jest!!!.....
Leononski - bring it on !!!

Please people let this topic dy like this sport has!!!!!!!

have a nice day now!!
tony stoppel

 

[JoSpencer]

Always gotta have your two bobs worth don't you Tony.

I would like to know what I have ever done to hurt you so much as the comments you make about me personally (let alone the other women) indicate that I have obviously done something to upset you along the way.

Well all I can say is Build a Bridge.......

I know you have been dying for some crap to appear on this site about this topic and that is why you have been calling certain people to find out the gossip - EVER SINCE IT HAPPENED 3 MONTHS AGO! Oh and how do I know this???? Well think back to Sunday 28th April, you made a telephone call to a certain person who just so happened to be at MY HOUSE!!! I heard every last little bit of crap that came out of your mouth BLAMING ME and you were not even there! The biggest laugh of all was that I DO NOT CARE what you think!

Get a Life Tony.

Like I said in my previous post, believe what you want to believe and who you want to believe. Those who know me and who are GENUINE friends will know the truth without me even BEING EXPECTED to explain, this is what true friends are about!

And you can bite all you want to this post Tony I will not reply.

GOOD BYE

Jo

 

[milkman]

Jo,

The basic fundamentals when playing the sport of fishing, is you put bait on the end of a hook, throw it in the water, and hope the fish bites .... it seems that whatever bait our friend strop has been using, definately tickles your fancy.

What are you actually going to do about this issue, other than complain and whine about the people that are portraying their point of views about the incident? I havent seen any positive step forwards as to what you are going to do ... care to explain?

According to TBA's website, you are on the "Women's Advisory Committee". I would of expected a better resolution to these events from a senior member of the bowling community, and one that represents our national body.

To Strop:

Leave philby alone, he does good down here in Vic. Personal attacks should be left alone, state the facts, and you will not be hassled.

 

[bowlrig]

Hey, just a thought, maybe Disgruntled and Qbert could get together.
Both seem to like stiring up unwanted discussions and spreading unfounded rumours then not putting their names underneath so we know who they are.
I personally think that it is these nameless people in our sport that cause more trouble than most of the people that are at least making an effort.

Rob