Ranking System - Tournament Bowlers

A lot of the ladies who are below 14th are the ladies who did Australian Masters and don't really travel to tournaments because of family committments.

You can't compare anybody in the top 14 to the ones who are below us because we are the ones who show our dedication to the sport and who are able to travel to most of the tournaments.

All i'm doing is sticking up for the bowlers who are up the top of the rankings system. To sum it up its not because we can afford to go to every tournament (because i know a lot of us work our butts off to get the funds together) , its because we have worked on our games for years and have turned into very strong tournaments players and are constantly at the top of the tournament standings.

Don't say we dont deserve to be there when you have no idea how much time we put into this game!
 
I said the post was stupidity, very much like your own. I did not say the person who posted it was stupid.

Also, unlike you I stay on topic and actually post something whether people agree or not.

So you want a sensible discussion, yet you're calling the people who voice their opinions stupid just because they do not agree with yours or are slightly off.
If people who you say are of that level then they should be out there proving it against people like George, Mick, Bec etc, regardless of the excuses they blurt.

You've had your 2 cents worth, perhaps it's time to play troll on another thread.

Come out and bowl our ranked events next year. Like Bec has said, we have all worked hard to get to where we are, representing our country at internationl level and consistantly placing through the national tour here, we've all made sacrifices in our lives to get where we want to be.
 
Bec, You just summed it up. You are the ones able to travel to more tourneys. Thank you for finally admitting it.

Can you tell me where in any post made by anyone on this thread that someone said those at the top of the rankings did not deserve to be there please.
 
If people who you say are of that level then they should be out there proving it against people like George, Mick, Bec etc, regardless of the excuses they blurt.

Why should they? Give me a reason.

What if they simply do not want to?
What if rankings don't interest them?
What if they simply can't?
Or dare I say it, what if like most people, they don't need to prove anything to yourself or anyone else.
 
We work very very hard to be able to travel to the tournaments! I myself have two jobs just to be able to afford to go!

This is the last thing i am saying..... The ones at the top of the rankings are now Australia's best, there are new people on the scene and are now Australia's future. Come to tournaments and you will see these people in action and just see how good they are
 
Sam, where did anyone in this entire thread say they were better than anyone else? Stop clutching at straws and trying to divert the topic and get back to discussing the rankings system.
 
Bec, if you had only bowled 3 tourneys where would you be ranked?

It is a fault of the system that allows people who bowl more tourneys to be ranked higher. Some may deserve it and some may not but it allows it to happen.
 
It depends what tournaments you take.....

Bowling more tournaments doesnt mean you will be up there in the rankings, you need to constantly be at the top to get the good ranking points, if you constantly finish down the bottom of every tournament, you aint gonna get very high in the rankings...
 
Why should they? Give me a reason.

What if they simply do not want to?
What if rankings don't interest them?
What if they simply can't?
Or dare I say it, what if like most people, they don't need to prove anything to yourself or anyone else.

If they do not want to then fine, whatever. Rankings only interest a select few - for National Squad selections and going to represent Australia.
If they can't do the events it comes down to a couple of reasons.

1. $$$
2. not enough advertising for these events because of laziness.

If they feel they have nothing to prove by competing then they are sadly mistaken, because these days we don't bowl on anything apart from sport conditions or world event conditions. They may have been the best at their peak, but it's now time to step up.
 
Bec, if you had only bowled 3 tourneys where would you be ranked?

It is a fault of the system that allows people who bowl more tourneys to be ranked higher. Some may deserve it and some may not but it allows it to happen.

That's the idea, bowling 1-2 events does not paint a picture of the bowlers talents or ranking.... you have to bowl multiple events over a variety of formats and lane conditions. Canberra is on this weekend CO, 3000 reasons to bowl, guarenteed!
 
That's fine George. If you lot who are high on the rankings system are ok with a system that only ranks the top 33 bowlers in the country then you be happy with it. I personally think it is faulty.

lol @ $3000. Take wages, travel, accommodation, food, drinks etc out of that and it is nowhere near $3000.

In case you have not noticed, I haven't even registered for the $10,000 first place tourney in Mildura. In my home centre, I am bowling ok, even if I didn't win I might cash but you need to learn something. It isn't all about cash and ego.
 
It depends what tournaments you take.....

Bowling more tournaments doesnt mean you will be up there in the rankings, you need to constantly be at the top to get the good ranking points, if you constantly finish down the bottom of every tournament, you aint gonna get very high in the rankings...

If you use your best 3 finishes would you still be ranked where you are?
 
Of course i wouldnt be on top! cause i can only get maxi 300 points for three events...I only would have got 280 and finished 4th
 
Bec, how many more tourneys have you bowled than the people below 14th spot on the rankings? Do you really want to go down this path?

How about you go back and read my post a bit slower and then comment on what I actually wrote.

The problem is, the OP of this topic was asking about identifying other avenues of achieving a fairer rankings system, something you have not contributed to at all in this entire thread, I haven't really either, because I don't know if it can be done, because there are a variety of formats that all have some merit to them, yet combining all of those positives will not make a good system either.

BUT, as I stated earlier, your reason for the rankings as not being fair, equal, relevant, worthwhile etc etc, all of the above is that there are some bowlers in this country who choose not to compete in nationally ranked events, even though they may possess the skills to do so. And that also because you can bowl in a certain amount of tournaments, then the more you bowl the better you will fare in rankings as opposed to someone who only competes in 2-3 tournaments for the year. I don't think I am missing anything in summing this up, but please correct me if so.

Firstly, if a bowler who has the potential to compete but chooses not to, for whatever reason, financial, motivation, family, they want to be a legend in their own centre etc, cannot solely use an average rankings system as demotivation to not compete in national events. This is just nonsense, as this has no correlation to whatever rankings system that may be in place. Earning rankings points is a side effect of competing in national events. So if you want to compete in national events solely to bowl, compete against other top bowlers, then so be it, but guess what, you will also earn rankings points.

Secondly, based on this years rankings, there are 6 tournaments for the year plus masters for the guys of which you can obtain points for, of these 6 you can use your best 4, but, as Bec has stated, you still need to compete to a high level to earn your points for each event. Just because you can bowl more events, doesn't mean you are entitled to receive free points and the other competitors will bow down before you. I could understand your point if there were a large amount of national ranked events and you could use say you best 10 events out of 20 or whatever, because that would lend itself to the problem you keep harking on about. Aside from Arafura, all tournament entries have been reasonably close in entry numbers with no significant poor numbers and as I have stated a few times already, I think this will continue next year with a better spread of tournaments both timeframe wise and location wise.

You mention the top 14 above and below that point, if you recall a previous post, I mentioned that this number for the women and probably double or triple this for the guys, will always be a core group of bowlers who enjoy and wish to travel to as many national events as possible, so therefore, by circumstance, they are likely to receive more rankings points than those who don't. It wouldn't matter what system of ranking we have in place, somewhere along the line, bowlers will need to compete in a certain amount of events to be eligible and earn points. It is how rankings systems work.
 
Bec, if you had only bowled 3 tourneys where would you be ranked?

It is a fault of the system that allows people who bowl more tourneys to be ranked higher. Some may deserve it and some may not but it allows it to happen.

What system do you want though? You need to bowl in some events to be ranked, it is how it works in any sport anywhere in the world. They don't hand out rankings to Roger Federer because he has style and potential swinging a tennis racquet in fancy Gilette commercials.
 
so no matter how well you bowl in 3 events, someone who bowled the 5 could get poorer results and be ranked higher. Enough said.

The cut off this year is 4 events, it would be unlikely that over so few events, they could bowl much poorer and still grab the title. Each event is 100, if Bec placed first twice and 2nd once, that is 280 points as she stated, so out of so many events, she already has just under half of the possible wins for the year. For someone to beat her, they most likely would have had to have at least one win somewhere and some fairly high placings ie 2nds or 3rds in other events.
 
Ah no because if they were to bowl 5 events and come below 4th every time then they can't get to 280. Coming 4th or higher is a very hard thing to do at every single tournament!
 
Michael, how are you going to improve a system if you don't know where it needs improving? You need to identify the possible faults so that you can change them to something better.
 
Why should they? Give me a reason.

What if they simply do not want to? A challenge, compete against other high performance bowlers, gain new experiences, learn different techniques, tips, tricks to improve their own game?
What if rankings don't interest them? Rankings don't really interest a lot of people, but if it doesn't interest them so be it, just because the rankings may not interest some bowlers, cannot be a reason for them not wanting to bowl National events
What if they simply can't? That is fine, people have different motivations, reasons etc, why they can or can't bowl National events, but because someone can't compete in national events, then does this mean the rankings system is not valid regardless of what system is in place? No not at all.
Or dare I say it, what if like most people, they don't need to prove anything to yourself or anyone else. Nobody said anything about proving themselves to anyone else, it is simple, if they are comfortable in not competing in national tournaments, comfortable in their own skin of their ability and don't feel the need to bowl the highest level of tournaments in this country, then they don't have to, plain and simple, but again, this has no correlation to any kind of rankings system, because they aren't included in it.

If someone doesn't wish to compete, then so be it. But regardless of what version is in play, there will be the need to compete in some amount of events to earn rankings points to indicate those who have performed in our national events to a high level.
 
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