JUNIOR SHIELD(the future and pure class)

chucker

chucker

Member
for the first time in about 15 years i got to witness the amf junior shiled on the weekend and in turn got first hand a view of the future of bowling in this great state of victoria.
it is interesting to hear that next year the event will become handicapped and in turn have heard that some of the scrath bowlers are going to boycott the event next year because of this?
i personally think this would be a bad thing for thier games and futures in the sport as long as amf does not go ahead and make the handicap system any more than 80% of 180 for several reasons?

if you introduce handicap i think it will make the bowlers who won in the boys event knuckle down and bowl as a team instead of bowling with complete arogance and as four of the winning boys team were state reps at the moment they in my opinion would be scratch bowlers and in the end none of them averaged over 200 which was in my opinion a result of the way the acted as opposed to the completaly classy performance in the girls of rebecca whiting who not only out averaged everyone there by almost ten pins a game and showed why she should be pretty much an automatic selection for the next aussie youth side she did it in complete respect for her opposition!most likely the highlight of the weekend!!!

it would be interesting to know how many of the boys in the forest hill team bowled under average compared to how many bowlers in other teams bowled
over average?

there is some great futures in this state from what i saw from some of the younger bowlers and i cant wait to see the development these young kids have made in twelve months time i think bec whitings performance was huge over the weekend not only in the girls but overall and in the boys my highlight was when the frankston boys took it to forest hill at their own game and beat them and to watch how forest hill acted towards each other that game was interesting the only way they acted as a team was when nick got the boys in a huddle to try and get them going in the end it didn't work but it was a good try and good work as a captain as the boys turned their backs on each other and dropped their heads when teammates opened and would think the future in this state and this competition this was the biggest lesson in team bowling and hope that the boys learnt from it????

in the end a great event and it would be interesting to find out what other spectators and bowlers thought of the weekend and the future and what is best for thier own games handicap or keeping the event scratch?

ps.i was asked to post on here by one of the forest juniors dads about it going handicapped next year and these were my thoughts on why it should.
cheers
 
This year, was my first year representing shepparton. In my opinion, if it was to be handicapped, it would take away from what a great event junior shield and junior country cup is. I believe bowling in events like this, prepares us juniors for bigger things. I had a lot of fun this year, learnt a lot of things, i believe if junior shield was handicapped, i wouldnt have learnt anything from it.
just my opinion...
 
Interesting thoughts Mac.

Must strongly agree with your thoughts on Bec Whiting, an absolute class act and congratulations.

I think this was her last and thats where the problem lies in junior bowling. Apart from some individual coaching efforts (by a few) there is NO AMF sponsered or affiliated junior developement program. With some the the best juniors ageing out there is a large gap between them and the next level of bowlers.

In my opinion making this a handicapped event would spoil it, average "maintainance" will always raise it head. It always has been a scratch event and should remain so. Make a new handicapped event if that's what people want so the prize can be shared around. We wouldn't want the Dunn Shield to become handicapped just because Keon and Dandy have had a lot of recent success.

The incentive to win a prestige event should be the all the bowlers and the centres need to work towards winning it. There's nothing like coming second this year to make you hungrier for the big prize next year (just look at the AFL, how many runners up go on to win the Premiership the following year).

Just my two cents worth and congratulations to all who bowled and to the winning teams.
 
Mac

Although a traditionalist I too agree that to introduce handicap is the only way this event can continue to prosper. I can't see it lasting if it was to remain as a scratch event based on my observations on Sunday.

Although their is a lot of promising talent coming through their is hardly any genuine scratch level juniors out their anymore to warrant the event continuing as a scratch event. This also makes it hard if not emabarassing for some of the participants if you are talking about scratch as the benchmark.

The only thing different is I would set the handicap as 100% of 190 to at least encourage some of the higher averaging scratch bowlers to continue to bowl as all of us adults know that to succeed in five man team competition is the ultimate test for a bowler. This also gives the genuine lower average bowler an even chance. Not just their current or year book averages.

As the introduction of handicap throws up the "sand bagging" problem that plagued the Walter Daveer event before its demise I suggest the bowlers averages over the last couple of years are used to determine their rated average for the event.

Paul:

Chadstone has a junior development program and from the looks of their effort in beating Keon Park on Sunday I think it is working. However it is a work in progress and we all certainly should be doing more to encourage the junior bolwers to stick with the game.
 
in addition to terry's comments on chaddy having a junior development thing i know wayne parlby does a great job at knox with his programs as well. i am starting up a training program at dandy next year as well for junior development as i believe it is time to give back to the sport that i have got so much out of?
cheers
 
Terry it is great that Chaddy has a program and Mac is going to do something next year, Ryan Burton is also looking to do something at Forest Hill next year.

Wayne was one of the few I mentioned earlier but more needs to be done. It great that individual's are doing this but it needs to be done on a state/national level by AMF to keep our juniors bowling.
 
Hi All,

All the comments in this forum have absolute merit and are worthy of review and debate to help prosper the Junior Shield Event.

As a previous junior who bowled this event many times, I personally do not want to see this event go handicapped. I think this would take away from the prestige and the premier junior event that it is in Victoria.

I remember when I bowled my first junior shield, I was 13 years old and just making the team was something I was really proud of. I also remember looking at the guys like Akira Miani, Mark Dodds and so on wanting to continue to better myself to reach their level. By introducing a handicap system in a premier best of the best junior event, you really do take away from the guys and girls who work very hard on their game to bowl very well.

Handicapping an event like this may allow a 110 average bowler to beat a 180 average bowler. This is does not encourage the junior who is averaging 110 to look at the bowler and go right, I want to improve my game to that level. Instead that bowler gets a pat on the back for winning a point when they were 60 pins behind that higher average bowler. We need to encourage these juniors to improve, not maintain their average because they want a big handicap for next year.

It's like using bumpers, I see kids bowling junior league who are 10 years old still using bumpers when they bowl and when you take them away, they simply don't want to bowl. We need to again encourage juniors to not use them and learn the game for the precise sport that it is, not aiming at the gutter and using the bumper is the right thing to do.

This event in my eyes should remain a scratch event, the problem lies more in junior development at the grass roots level rather than handicapping a premier junior event. I too think the work Wayne Parlby does out at Knox is second to none, this guy gives up so much of his personal and totally loves the sport, I have so much respect for him as a coach and as a person and wish we could clone him like 50 times and put one in every center.

Just my 2 cents worth...

Joel
 
Joel i'll back you on your comments and agree with what you just said

Its going to be a shame to see Junior Shield and event most of bowlers love bowling in every year be handicapped...

All i can say is that its going to be interesting to see what some others have to say about this thread

Jimmy Bowles
 
Nice post Mac. Joel great post just like the others.

I was asked by Vern from Chaddy to help him out in the Junior Development program at Chaddy for the coming years. It will be great to see these kids go from strength to strength. I haven't been in this sport aslong as Mac but it's great to see bowlers like Mac give something back to the sport they love. I'm looking forward to giving something back to the sport by helping vern out next year who got me started when i first started bowling.

Watching Junior Shield over the weekend was a blast from past. Wacthing Bec bowl was awesome and great display of her bowling and also to out average the boys well just shows what she can do. With it going handicap well guess will have to wait and see. Would be a sad thing to see the premier junior team event go to handicap.

To also anwser mac's question. The 4 top forest hill boys did not bowl there average. But congrats guys. Some of the behavior was just wrong though to other bowlers.
 
i do agree i would not like to see this event go handicapped. i basically wanted to get some discussion onto what is a fair and reasonable handicap system as i dont want to see the handicap made at 80% of 200. that would work against the scratch bowler and will stop people wanting to be better.
as i did hear bowlers wanted to boycott it next year because it was going handicapped.
is there any official word it is going to be handicapped and by how much or are there still choices?

another option to make it a more competitive event is to drop the peterson points and keep it a scratch event just like they did with rachuig which is probably the better way to go?

i think we need to discuss this so that the changes are for the better and that the tournament goes onto prosper and be the great event i know it is.

cheers
 
At the end of shield last night I believed that this event had to have some sort of handicap system for next year.

After reading the comments on here I am not so sure. Over the past eight years I have seen some great junior bowlers come throught the ranks. On the weekend I saw some young girls who have got some real potential.

It is great to see a bowler and person of Mac's statue offering to help develop this potential.

The answer might be to give junior shield a chance to develop again before trying to introduce a new system.
 
I personally hope that Junior shield does not go to a handicap system. I remeber back to 2000 at Northcote where the likes of Carly Allen, Tracey Madden, Craig Ryan and Jimmy Bowles competed for Keon Park. They were lucky to average 150. These bowlers went on to become All stars over the next 3 years. They achieved this by working there butts off practicing and learning so that when they got there chance they excelled. If the junior shield became Handicapped they might not have even made the team. To become the best you must first compete against the best but only on an even playing field. Victoria over the last few years has become a force in Presidents shield. I believe this is directly linked to Junior shield. To the powers that be do not make junior shield Handicapped. Leave alone what is the best junior competition in the country. It will recover its former glory. I guarantee that all of the girls watching Bec bowl on the weekend will aspire to be as good as her. Ain't they lucky they got the chance to compete against her on level terms.

Regards
Phil
 
I to was there on the weekend to watch all of the Junior Shield and i do agree with Mac regarding the arrogance shown by the Forest Hill boys and the lack of respect they showed towards their opposition. They may have won their division convincingly but - bowlers of that calibre throwing gutter balls or 1 counts after a string of strikes in the 9th or tenth frame then turning around to face their teamates with a huge grin on their faces then expect a high 5 for their efforts. Definately NOT what you want the younger bowlers to aspire to.

I also agree with the comments made regarding Bec Whiting - after struggling on 1st day to come out the way she did on 2nd day was inspiring, blowing the lanes apart. here is the future of bowling that we want for Victoria - Someone who deals with the job at hand and shows no arrogance towards her fellow competitor.

In regards to Wayne Parlby - just brilliant - Go down to Knox Bowl and ask the juniors on a Tuesday or Friday evening and see for yourself what they think of him . Someone who should receive every accolade that is thrown his way.
 
I believe you have forgotten what it was like for yourselves to be in a comp standing next to a bowler who has a reputation to be an outstanding bowler.
If you can, think about a small boy who is just getting his game into the 130 ave, he makes the Jnr Shield Team in 6th or 7th place. 8th place boy or girls in that matter to come along on that day, to be part of somthing special.
The other team members are older and been around for awhile, brings together the younger team members, the experience must be thrilling for them.
I saw this in my son last year. He started bowling in a Jnr league in 2006, and had no idea what he was doing. In one month he was averageing 106. He finish the season on 126 or thereabout.
I entered him into a League in 2007, he started with the 126 ave, started bowling against adults. He did feel he was over his head being there, but the team welcomed him there, and away he went.
I talked to a coach if he could help him, and he said he would. I bought him a new ball and away he went.
By the end of that year, he had an ave 164.
He tried out for the Jnr Shield team and made the play off. He played in that play off. Nobody knew him and felt nervious about being there. He did make the team in 7th place, he felt very proud of himself. Me too.
He did play in the Comp and played to his ave at Sunshine bowls. He saw the allstars being selected and latter at home he told me that he's goal next year. He wanted to make the allstar team.
In 2008 he continued to bowl in the same league with the 164 ave and had climbed to an end of season average of 198. He again tried out to make the Jnr Shield Team and did so in first place. In the play off he finished in first place. His goal was on its way.
He did play in the comp, on the Saturday he was very nervious, and started with two low scores, then had a break. Team was good and he felt very much part of it this year and all his energy was to lift the team as all of them did. This team became a fighting team. They were in 7th place on Saturday.
He finished the day on 187 ave. He felt disappointed.
On Sunday they came out fighting and found what the team game is all about. They lifted to a new level, they came together and didn't lose a game again. No matter who was in the side at the time, they took it up to the side they were playing and beat them. They almost grabbed 2nd place, they did finished 3rd and they were very proud boys.
And my son, well he did finished in the Allstars team and in first place. He Aved 212 on Sunday and 199.3 for the weekend.

You know, when your in a team, you don't think about personal awards, its all about the team, and isn't that what it's all about.
Setting goals is only part of it. My son learnt something more, I believe the kids in the team of ours learnt that no matter what your ave is in league, when you make the Jnr Shield Team, you make the team, you play as a team and you achieve as a team and that is what its all about. He learnt that personal goals is second, the TEAM is always first.
Lets not look at this through adult eyes and look at it through the kids eyes, and leave the things alone.
Maybe we as adults should teach our boys and girls what the Jnr Shield is all about...Team play.. We start with a low ave and climb.
Tony.B
 
poppy62 said:
In regards to Wayne Parlby - just brilliant - Go down to Knox Bowl and ask the juniors on a Tuesday or Friday evening and see for yourself what they think of him . Someone who should receive every accolade that is thrown his way.
Click to expand...

I am one of those bowlers on a tuesday night who get coaching from Wayne. I can tell you he is a super coach, i have been with him for 8 years now and he has turned my game around heaps. He works on every aspect of the game with us, whether it be sparing or targeting
I on a friday night we have youth singles league which is 5 weeks on long oil, 5 weeks on short then we alternate them through the season. This is a great experience for all bowlers and really makes you think.

It was awesome weekend and a great way of going out after 8 years of bowling Junior Shield.
Their is defiently future Victorian and even Australian reps out their in Victoria!
 
You Know, I would have thought if you want a great comp, a player would work to the greatness of the comp. Then why would you bring a great comp down to the first timer.
If you want to do that, well I think the GREATNESS of the comp, you will lose.
Another word, you don't have to work so hard to achieve anything anymore.
Think about that guys!!!
Tony B
 
thought i better say something since i use to be one of waynes kids bak in the day

Wayne can make anyone listen to him and inprove i am terrible at taking advice but he turned me from a 150 average and just making the 2006 boronia junior shield team to averageing 210 on the day and bowling my best ever

On the fact of the forrest hill boys being arrogant that is rubbish i know 4 of those boys exetremely well and arrogance is not a word you think when u mention the names in that team all come from great families and have a respect for themselves there team mates and there oposition

when u are bowling and u are cheering each other on u dont think on how u act so to say forrest hill showed no respect and were arrogant is utter tripe and 4 of forrest hills bowlers are representing Victoria at president shield next year now there is your future

also well done to my little sister on 8 years of enjoyment for me mum and dad if only u got ya name on the shield but keon won every year u bowled shield

and dont make shield handicap u may as well make it a bumper event
 
Thanks Matt...
Could'nt have put it in better word's myself...
Nice to see someone look at it as a group of close friends having fun bowling...
Not arrogance and disrespect...

Making this fantastic tournament handicapped would take away its whole importance...
This tournament was my first inspiration (like many other people) to be a good bowler...
Without this first stepping stone many of Victoria's great junior bowlers will go to waste...

- Jimmy Banfield
 
In all of my experience a team that plays together wins together.
Those boys from forrest hills who happen to be some of my best friends won fair and square by being there for each other.
I dont think they turned their backs on each other once, there were many unselfish decisions.
If they were out for a game they went and practiced together to help one and other find the right shot, a bowler bowling well chose to sit out for a game to help another member find the right shot out there from the fresh oil.
Decisions were all made for the team, and usually by the team.
The boys wanted to bowl together to have fun and do there best, and they also wanted to get the girls team over the line which i think they did a great job at to come soo close.

Nick was a selfless captain always working for the right line up and position,
Shane was scoring and trying to push the others,
Jimmy always had a smile on his face even in a lower game,
Josh was positive and supported his team members and being a consistant bowler,
Brendon played every ball with merit and weather his own or a team member
Chris bowled like a champ and spured the others on
Coen stayed calm and backed his team and bowled really well!...
Mike was a great manager attending to all of the boys needs

Each of these guys played a crucial role..
As for bad shots and being positive, a gutter or a one count is no different to a greek church.. something went wrong and the end result was poor...
would you rather them come back swearing and booting a ball return or positive and going back for the spare?
The last few years in pres shield kids have been taught to take the anger out of the game by coming back and high fiving every shot to keep a positive attitude under all circumstances, just take it like a nother frame and move on from it.
C'mon guys this is JUNIOR shield, they're kids and theyre awesome at what they did let them enjoy it.

Great work to forry boys, keon girls and bec for being a freak =P
 
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