A gripe or two about bowling
- Thread starter wchester
- Start date
Again Wayne the answer is all about the equipment available today that allows people
who have been bowling for 5 minutes, you know what i mean, to average 200
In doing so they can't spare but can string 6 or 7 strikes
Not many people today learn the basic skills of the game before they become good bowlers
So the answer is , It is probably not fair but that is progress, so they keep telling me !!!
who have been bowling for 5 minutes, you know what i mean, to average 200
In doing so they can't spare but can string 6 or 7 strikes
Not many people today learn the basic skills of the game before they become good bowlers
So the answer is , It is probably not fair but that is progress, so they keep telling me !!!
Roysa
Well-Known Member
IM not sure Wayne where the motivation for this thread has come from but NOTHING POSITIVE WILL COME FROM IT.
What are the circumstances? Did the 20yr veteran have a bad day? If so shouldnt he or she have enough experience to adjust and win? Did he or she miss spares?
If the newbie bowled well enough to win good on him or her.
At the end of the day the equipment is available to everyone.
Threads like this do more damage to the sport then flogging the dead horse that is bowling ball technology.
What are the circumstances? Did the 20yr veteran have a bad day? If so shouldnt he or she have enough experience to adjust and win? Did he or she miss spares?
If the newbie bowled well enough to win good on him or her.
At the end of the day the equipment is available to everyone.
Threads like this do more damage to the sport then flogging the dead horse that is bowling ball technology.
Nighteyes300
Member
Wayne as long as it was yourself that got beaten I don't think many of us would care
Wal Brooker
New Member
When are bowlers going to get the message? One of the blessings of the sport is that on any given day an 'average' player can take a game or two off a so called 'elite' competitor.
However when distance is involved the 'elite' will just about always dominate. That's just the way it is!!
However when distance is involved the 'elite' will just about always dominate. That's just the way it is!!
jockey
Member
Hey Wayne
It happens all the time in league and so it should as how else do we expect the newbies to improve. However I go with Wal's comment that I might have a bad game or even day here or there but you turn it into a marathon and I'm sure I would come up trumps 9 out of 10 times.
The fact they don't have that sparing knowledge is always going to come back and bite them when the strikes dry up.
wchester
Bowling Tragic
This post is not about any specific bowler. It's about the changes which have been brought about by the ruling bodies and manufacturers of our sport. There aren't too many sports in which a newcomer can be successful playing on the same level as someone who has proven themself over the course of a decade or more.
Bowling should not be this easy...you should have to work for your success, not buy it!
Bowling should not be this easy...you should have to work for your success, not buy it!
the mothership
the mothership hears you
with an attitude like that you can kiss the sport goodbye, there's no use having a whinge about why its 'this easy', and even if it were everyone would be shooting 300 each game and every game. Do you see this? NO!
People who are new to bowling are looking for the extra help from the equipment in order to improve, once they have that then they can become better through practice with the addition of a good coach.
People who are new to bowling are looking for the extra help from the equipment in order to improve, once they have that then they can become better through practice with the addition of a good coach.
Brenton_Davy
900Global bowler
Wayne,
The vast majority of posters on this forum will flame you for your views, but I agree, in the main, with the gist of your post. It is one of the reasons that even bowlers don't regard bowling in the same light as more popular sports such as golf, where the equipment is secondary to ability, knowledge and dedication to practice. The problem is that everyone is so used to the equipment that is available, it has become impossible for the governing bodies to effectively legislate the equipment back to "the good old days". The manufacturers have invested so much in R & D that they would never allow equipment to be significantly regressed. As a result, it can only come back to lane conditions and proprietor groups would never allow the governing bodies to legislate tough lane conditions for league play.
So you see where the problem is. You are right Wayne, but unfortunately, there is no way your gripe will never be acted upon, especially in a league scenario. NO-one wants to risk a mass walk out of players who have become accustomed to scores in a box.
Easy Tiger
Active Member
10:1 in 2012
9:1 in 2013
8:1 in 2014
7:1 in 2015
6:1 in 2016
5:1 in 2017
4:1 in 2018
3:1 in 2019
Maybe by 2020 we could be back on track. Don't make the change in conditions in one drastic move, stage it and the everyday league bowler won't even notice.
9:1 in 2013
8:1 in 2014
7:1 in 2015
6:1 in 2016
5:1 in 2017
4:1 in 2018
3:1 in 2019
Maybe by 2020 we could be back on track. Don't make the change in conditions in one drastic move, stage it and the everyday league bowler won't even notice.
Is this over 15 games? 10 games? 4 game set? 3 game set? Maybe just one game? Maybe a 9th and 10th frame roll off? Or SUDDEN DEATH!!!?
Without being specific and leaving the question so open you can't expect any real answers. But, I'll provide a short answer to some scenarios anyway.
Over 10-15 games - The most unlikely, but maybe your seasoned veteran just isn't the seasoned veteran they used to be. Or the bowler has picked up the game very quickly. Both possible.
Normal League set - More possible, especially on some of the softer patterns. The veteran misses some reads and newcomer has it, I've seen it before and I'm sure I'll see it again.
Anything less - Most likely, because there is the most opportunity for luck to be a determining factor, as well simply missing one move costing you 30+ pins. I bowled a 167 game in league a few ago and had an extremely close game with Mr Cooley. While we are far from 'veterans' I think most would agree that we both have a fairly high skill level. 167 is far from a score that any new league bowler with some level of training and equipment couldn't match. I've seen a new bowler, with house shoes and house ball bowl 200+ throwing it dead straight. He was lucky enough to have played Lawn Bowls and already had good hand-eye coordination. That's as far from new equipment doing the job for him as any situation I can think of. Some people get to level's much quicker the others.
I also can't believe that this never happened in the 60's/70's/80's/90's/00's. I refuse to believe that some people just didn't pick the game naturally and insanely fast, and on any given day/night could have beaten a 20+ year veteran.
Cow
wchester
Bowling Tragic
Well, since you weren't a scratch bowler during the 1960's - 70's - 80's - 90's and I WAS..I can tell you for a fact that a first year bowler would never beat me in anything more than an occasional game here and there, and NEVER in set of three or more games. It just wasn't possible due to the learning curve that was required at the time...
Today..there is no learning curve..If you have decent coordination, you go out a buy a reactive resin ball, bowl a lot for a couple of months and voila..you've got a 200 average. This doesn't mean you'll be able to compete with the pros but that first year bowler doesn't care. Since they have no frame of reference to what a hard sport bowling used to be, they're happily oblivious and believe that their as good as the guys they see bowling on the televised PBA Tour.
Michael Little
Active Member
Gees this bloody hurts to say it, I can see Wayne's point, but along with other posters on here, have no idea what purpose it will serve. Being an open statement as such, and mentioning Rob in the post, most people would assume that perhaps something happened during league night and you weren't happy. It has been mentioned before, you should clarify exactly what your post is about and not try and stir up emotions/feelings and then wonder why you get flamed most of the time.
You know the answer to your own questions, the industry will never change, and whilst I do agree the nature of todays conditions and bowling balls allow for new bowlers to achieve the instant gratification that most of us have been practicing for for years, it is how the sport is now.
I believe it is up to the proprietors, bowlers and industry leaders to make a change, and I don't necessarily think that patterns need to be dead easy or dead hard as in some sport patterns. All these patterns really do is make it harder to hit the pocket and if anything, I believe that whilst the reactive age has increased scoring in general, lane conditions in normal tournaments and sports tournaments makes using the new equipment harder, the lane conditions change quicker, you need to have a tonne more technical knowledge to stay on top of lane movements, drillings, surfaces, etc etc.
IMO, I think there needs to be a change the specifications of the lane and pins themselves, make them slightly heavier, after all, pin weight have increased from original incarnation, or stop them from being so springy in reaction across the deck, also we can change the deck, angles, kickbacks, side boards, gutters to reduce carry percentages, which will tend to reduce the novice to average skill bowler carrying so many off hits and make bowlers work to hit flush pocket.
You know the answer to your own questions, the industry will never change, and whilst I do agree the nature of todays conditions and bowling balls allow for new bowlers to achieve the instant gratification that most of us have been practicing for for years, it is how the sport is now.
I believe it is up to the proprietors, bowlers and industry leaders to make a change, and I don't necessarily think that patterns need to be dead easy or dead hard as in some sport patterns. All these patterns really do is make it harder to hit the pocket and if anything, I believe that whilst the reactive age has increased scoring in general, lane conditions in normal tournaments and sports tournaments makes using the new equipment harder, the lane conditions change quicker, you need to have a tonne more technical knowledge to stay on top of lane movements, drillings, surfaces, etc etc.
IMO, I think there needs to be a change the specifications of the lane and pins themselves, make them slightly heavier, after all, pin weight have increased from original incarnation, or stop them from being so springy in reaction across the deck, also we can change the deck, angles, kickbacks, side boards, gutters to reduce carry percentages, which will tend to reduce the novice to average skill bowler carrying so many off hits and make bowlers work to hit flush pocket.
You never referenced YOURSELF Wayne, you simply stated a 20 year veteran who had proven skills. You also never stated over how many games they had beaten this 'proven veteran' in. Also, proven where? Here? In the USA? On the PBA? In the European Tour? On what conditions were they proven on, what conditions were they beaten on? Are we approaching the 1st year anniversary of said new bowler bowling, or is this their 3rd week in league? Have they had successes in sports similar to bowling before? Sports that require excellent hand eye coordination? Have they been lucky enough to have equipment drilled for them? Have they been receiving training and practicing?
I provided my opinion to a very open and, in my opinion, poorly worded question.
I see your point. Yes I do. But agree with Mick in not being able to see any purpose of it at all.
All I said was it can happen, and probably has happened before now. If you can't accept that highly probable statement then oh well. I admit it's highly improbable, but that's not what your first post was about. You just said the fairness had gone because a veteran lost to a newbie. It CAN happen, and I'm sure it has, and I'm sure it always will.
Cow
wchester
Bowling Tragic
Until I answered the post in which you mentioned the 60's-00's I had not been referring to myself, but rather any veteran bowler with winning credentials. I no longer bowl so I haven't been beated by a newcomer..hope this fact doesn't throw off your defensive interrogation....I wasn't aware that Wichita State University was a Law School, or have you been watching too much TV lately?
MY POINT IS.....A first year bowler should not beat any credentialed bowled with years of experience....DIDN'T HAPPEN THEN, SHOULDN'T HAPPEN NOW!
MY POINT IS.....A first year bowler should not beat any credentialed bowled with years of experience....DIDN'T HAPPEN THEN, SHOULDN'T HAPPEN NOW!
wchester
Bowling Tragic
I NO LONGER BOWL, so there isn't any specific incident that upset me. I mentioned Rob Garioch in my post because he said I should stop hijacking the 300 game threads and start my own.
Roysa
Well-Known Member
I wish Rob said nothing.
Roysa
Well-Known Member
Wow now that is totally unfair Wayne.
I thought Stephen and others have been quite reasoned and fair with their responses to your original post and for you to make it personal like you have with this post above just says to me your intention was only to make waves. Good for you Wayne but sounds like sour grapes to me.
