Thanks Bec, exactly the point I was going to make. Let's ignore Commonwealth Games to 'be seen' at Nationals?
50th Nationals Interesting Figures.
- Thread starter dockers
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bowlrig
Just A Bowler
Is this not "one" of the reasons ATBC went belly up ??????? Presidents, secretaries & most directors taking junkets at the bowlers expense !!!!!!!
Cara & her crew are doing a great job at the moment.......just give them a fair go.
Rob
Michael Little
Active Member
I don't disagree with the first part of your post, but with the amount of work Cara has to do and time and effort she puts in across the sport as a whole, it is practically impossible for her to be there for a whole 3 week period of Nationals. She spends half the year doing exactly what you suggest and travelling around the country to meet associations and bowling groups to hear what us the bowlers want. And over the space of the 3 weeks, there were directors and other TBA affiliated people in attendance, maybe not all at once, but in capacity or another they were there. Not sure what your point is except to possibly sleight the current association.
It isn't like the old days of the ATBC where awards etc, paid trips and the perks and lurks were a plenty and the CEO, President and whoever could attend a 2 week gravy train all expenses paid trip to the Nationals every year. For all the good old days where the sport was flourishing, it was never going to last long when spending was more than the income. Budgets are tighter and the TBA must be financially responsible in their spending.
You mention earlier about how the bowler pays for everything, well that is the current climate and it is so because of us the bowlers, who whinge, b*tch and moan about every perceived injustice (especially paying a registration fee). Those monies flowing back to the TBA or associate from entry monies, would most likely go to covering expenses, 3-4 full time people there every day non stop for 3 weeks, so covering their expenses, someone like Ian Nichols to continually update online functions, covering fees for things like the live streaming, the Tenpin Bowling Show etc etc, the list goes on.
Michael Little
Active Member
Really? She is supposed to sit around the bowl for 10hrs a day for 3 weeks non stop just talking to bowlers and other associated people. Do you live in the real world? Do you really think this would be a productive way to spend her time as the TBA's CEO? Do you think Jordan should have also been at the bowl at Rooty Hill for 3 weeks non stop considering this is AMF's biggest high performance tournament they host?
Or do you think she should also continue the duties she is paid for, ie meetings for Commonwealth Games, industry meetings etc etc and juggle all of this and attend the Nationals at periodic times when it is possible to do so, she was there a fair bit on and off. I am sure the Nationals were her priority but other things like being involved in the Commonwealth Games, albeit from a high performance perspective is progress for our sport, not just in Australia but close to world wide, it is another step to the Olympics (which possibly may never happen but you have to try).
This is where people like Cara are important to bowling as a whole, with a wealth of industry contacts, progress might seem slow on some things, but the tide is slowly turning and whinging, b*tching and moaning about unimportant rubbish like this is why the industry loses a lot of intelligent and prosperous people who could really help the sport but instead, get to the point where they just couldn't be bothered putting up with the BS.
Sure if they are doing something that is really out of place and is hurting the sport, they should be called up on it, but this is such an insignificant issue, that surely we have something better and more positive to discuss.
Casual Observer
Member
I don't have an issue with that at all Michael. Like I said, it is only the Nationals and only the biggest event on our calendar. Other things are obviously more important.
becka_girl
Proud Vic Chick
I would say Commonwealth Games is pretty important because it means promotion of bowling and gives bowling the chance of being a sport and getting recognition in this country
amagill
Active Member
Well how about using less sarcasm in your posts? Just an idea......
Roysa
Well-Known Member
steve jones
Active Member
Michael
Given I assume your intent is not to infer that everyone associated with the ATBC in the past was on your perceived "gravy train".....as noted in the selected segments below from your recent post:
"It isn't like the old days of the ATBC where awards etc, paid trips and the perks and lurks were a plenty and the CEO, President and whoever could attend a 2 week gravy train all expenses paid trip to the Nationals every year.
"I highly doubt that money just goes into someones pocket at the end of the day, remember it isn't the ATBC anymore".
.................perhaps you might care to be specific and name those, using this forum as the vehicle, who in your view were involved in the process of [apparently making] "money just goes into someones pocket at the end of the day".
Naming those involved would not only clear the air away from casting a shadow over each and every person who served the ATBC at every Nationals [run by the Congress] from the very inception of the tournament itself, it would certainly be a significant exhibition of intestinal fortitude on your own behalf.
I look forward to reading your list of names.
Stephen Jones
Given I assume your intent is not to infer that everyone associated with the ATBC in the past was on your perceived "gravy train".....as noted in the selected segments below from your recent post:
"It isn't like the old days of the ATBC where awards etc, paid trips and the perks and lurks were a plenty and the CEO, President and whoever could attend a 2 week gravy train all expenses paid trip to the Nationals every year.
"I highly doubt that money just goes into someones pocket at the end of the day, remember it isn't the ATBC anymore".
.................perhaps you might care to be specific and name those, using this forum as the vehicle, who in your view were involved in the process of [apparently making] "money just goes into someones pocket at the end of the day".
Naming those involved would not only clear the air away from casting a shadow over each and every person who served the ATBC at every Nationals [run by the Congress] from the very inception of the tournament itself, it would certainly be a significant exhibition of intestinal fortitude on your own behalf.
I look forward to reading your list of names.
Stephen Jones
bluey
Member
You have the gall to question what time and effort Cara puts into bowling? Not sure who out of yourself and Casual observer is the bigger dickhead, clearly you both have no idea.
Michael Little
Active Member
Steve,
You know me well enough to know, no slurs on people's reputations were intended so hopefully noone is offended by my post, but more that the focus was that whilst bowling as a sport was flourishing at the time, money was probably not well spent, and was bound to come to a grinding halt at some stage and in today's current climate, you will also all too well know, that belts must be tightened and the heady days of paid overseas trips, paid national events trips (as Doreen has highlighted where all from the ATBC used to attend), just cannot happen anymore and I really think that the TBA is being rubbished for trying to be financially responsible as much as possible. And the term gravy train, well in comparison to todays funding levels, income from registrations and memberships, the old days were a "gravy train".
I will edit the 2nd part of your above copy, because it was just an off the cuff line and certainly no personal aspersions intended, as it irks me that people continually talk about insignificant rubbish that provides little help to moving this sport forward in this country. You would know all about this yourself I am sure, as one of those people who has tried to help previously but have realised that sometimes it just isn't worth the hassle.
Lets face it, all past versions of the national body have had some issues, whether it being not totally financially responsible, over spending, lack of action, broken promises etc etc, but it doesn't mean this current version is not trying its hardest to get things on track and develop the sport.
And Jim is also right, who gives a rats about the past when we should be trying to improve the future.
Michael Little
Active Member
What is it that you do have an issue with then? It would be seem that you are saying Cara should have been there the whole time or was your original post about something else?
Casual Observer
Member
Perhaps the issue is not the sarcasm in my posts but the way in which other people on here seem to think the nationals is just another event. I have no issue, and I really don't care, what Cara does or doesn't do. What I have issue with is the fact that the usual suspects on here justify everything with stupidity.
As for you Bluey, you need to learn comprehension. No one has said Cara does not put time and effort into bowling. Ever heard a saying about a pot and a kettle?
I have no doubt that those with few brain cells will post some sort of unrelated reply to this but I really don't care.
As for you Bluey, you need to learn comprehension. No one has said Cara does not put time and effort into bowling. Ever heard a saying about a pot and a kettle?
I have no doubt that those with few brain cells will post some sort of unrelated reply to this but I really don't care.
Casual Observer
Member
You deserve a special reply.
1. I don't care what you think.
2. I post reality and common sense and if people don't like it then the issue is theirs, not mine.
3. The ones who taint this forum are the same ones holding back the promotion of the sport in the country. They are stuck in the same mindless attitude that nothing is wrong and any idea is stupid. They look for "celebrities" to do something when in reality they just need to get off their arse.
4. Your post has nothing to do with the topic yet like so many others, unless you are one of a few people it never gets deleted.
AMF runs the Nationals to make money. Pure and simple. What should happen is that we take advantage of that to promote the sport. It is not just the nationals, it is THE NATIONALS.
steve jones
Active Member
Michael............I know you well enough to know that making off the cuff, thoughtless, generalisations are not your usual style. You know me well enough to know that if you do happen to engage in these, as rare an event as it might be, I will pull you up. You and people like George, Jason and others are the leaders of this sport today Michael - I don't mean future leaders - because the future is now.
There are things that "irk" you as you note - there are things that "irk" me as well - as you would imagine. One of those is broad, uneducated, ill informed, sweeping statements that question people's intent and integrity in a general sense. Were there mistakes made over the years at the ATBC - most certainly - were there things that should have been done differently, most definitely. 20-20 hindsight is a wonderful thing - usually however it is the tool of the ignorant.
I largely ignore most of the rubbish written about bowling these days Michael - but there are some people who write quality words and who utter a view that should be both considered and respected.
I count you in that group Michael.
Jim Cross of course is correct in his view [Jim comes from a time and place that should always be listened to] - move on - except that if by moving on we trample on the good name and reputations of quality people who had the right intent and the necessary integrity then riding roughshod over them for the mere sake of moving on is not something I think we should take lightly - or indeed do at all.
There is nothing at all wrong with the application of a little respect.
There are things that "irk" you as you note - there are things that "irk" me as well - as you would imagine. One of those is broad, uneducated, ill informed, sweeping statements that question people's intent and integrity in a general sense. Were there mistakes made over the years at the ATBC - most certainly - were there things that should have been done differently, most definitely. 20-20 hindsight is a wonderful thing - usually however it is the tool of the ignorant.
I largely ignore most of the rubbish written about bowling these days Michael - but there are some people who write quality words and who utter a view that should be both considered and respected.
I count you in that group Michael.
Jim Cross of course is correct in his view [Jim comes from a time and place that should always be listened to] - move on - except that if by moving on we trample on the good name and reputations of quality people who had the right intent and the necessary integrity then riding roughshod over them for the mere sake of moving on is not something I think we should take lightly - or indeed do at all.
There is nothing at all wrong with the application of a little respect.
Michael Little
Active Member
I think the problem is you are slowly perceived to being much like another serial poor poster on here, where your posts are filled with sarcasm, ignorance, unrelated agendas and a chip filled shoulder. I don't see too much common sense in your posts but more an intent to stir the pot without the offshoot of generating a healthy discussion/developing ideas. I still don't understand the point of your original post. I do agree in one sense however that not everything should be justified but in this case, I don't see how you can justify the belief that Cara should have been there 24/7 as it would seem that you intended from your OP, when life and reality operates differently.
I also don't think anyone believes that the Nationals is just another event, it is our showpiece event, especially the Open Masters, it is AMF's high performance premier event. This was our highest attended Nationals in god knows how long and can only get better, so why do you believe this was only a 'Nationals' and not 'The Nationals'? I also don't think anyone disagrees with the fact that AMF make money from this event, I am not sure why that is an issue and I am sure not only the TBA but other industry groups do gain financial assistance from AMF/Proprietor groups, as without this assistance the TBA would be dead and buried. And I also somehow doubt that that money is not being injected back into promoting and developing the sport.
strop
Elite Athlete
It’s amazing to see some of the comments here,nothing's changed, I’m just so glad I don’t get too much involved with the politics of bowling of today. Probably why I enjoy the seniors so much, and of course they are the biggest organisation around today in some ways.
They certainly draw the biggest numbers in tournaments in Australia today, compared to the Adult section anyway.
I thought you were talking about our Australian Government there for a minute, current and past. All the same. Doesn't matter who's in , all the same!!
When you say or agree to that, some people might find that a bit disrespectful of our fallen heroes of the game.......
The old days might have been as you call it "Gravy Trains" because they probably had twice if not more members contributing......
As far as the use to be bad guys but OK now AMF, because they pile $100000 into one tournament, I think that money could be better spent than ONE tournament.
Lets spread it around into Juniors and seniors as well, instead of bowlers who......I'm not sure how to describe SOME of them, with my experience with some of them in the past.......and I'm still convinced the game still owes them allot, well they think it does...
I will agree that with Cara there, as a bowler she is, has a better understanding of the sport than most.
Cheers
Tony
They certainly draw the biggest numbers in tournaments in Australia today, compared to the Adult section anyway.
I thought you were talking about our Australian Government there for a minute, current and past. All the same. Doesn't matter who's in , all the same!!
When you say or agree to that, some people might find that a bit disrespectful of our fallen heroes of the game.......
The old days might have been as you call it "Gravy Trains" because they probably had twice if not more members contributing......
As far as the use to be bad guys but OK now AMF, because they pile $100000 into one tournament, I think that money could be better spent than ONE tournament.
Lets spread it around into Juniors and seniors as well, instead of bowlers who......I'm not sure how to describe SOME of them, with my experience with some of them in the past.......and I'm still convinced the game still owes them allot, well they think it does...
I will agree that with Cara there, as a bowler she is, has a better understanding of the sport than most.
Cheers
Tony
Casual Observer
Member
AMF did not put $100k into the event. It was nowhere near that. Much of the prize money was paid by entrance fees. I seem to be forgetting myself again, according to Michael I am ignorant and don't know how things are.
Michael, I did not say Cara needed to be there 24/7 and I did not infer it. What I said was the attitude of people that the nationals is not important was the issue. The rest of your post is nothing but childish spite but whatever. Those with nothing sensible to say often resort to that.
Michael, I did not say Cara needed to be there 24/7 and I did not infer it. What I said was the attitude of people that the nationals is not important was the issue. The rest of your post is nothing but childish spite but whatever. Those with nothing sensible to say often resort to that.
Michael Little
Active Member
I appreciate your comments Steve, as I said, my original post wasn't meant to trample on past reputations etc, however good intentions/integrity or not doesn't mean we can ignore previous issues and you are right, hindsight is great and there are many things that should be learnt/hopefully not repeated.
