Two Handed and One Handed Deliveries

[Emery_Paper]

Another point is the OZ masters. John (cox on) has stated that since it's an open event, you can throw the ball however they like. But, qualifying is done through the championships whose grading whether D, C or open is based on averages. Would that mean, one would have to observe the tba ruling during qualifying but then be allowed to ignore it during the actual masters?

I was thinking about this. Even in scratch leagues, averages must be recorded and calculated for the reason that they may have to face a forfeit/bye situation, the degree of difficulty of which is set out by this rule:

RULE 320 BYES / FORFEITS
1)When a bye or a forfeit occurs, due to any reason whatsoever, the team present and not at fault must bowl all games as though they were actually contested.
2) Every member bowling on such team must have completed his frame on one lane before the team shall commence its frame on the adjoining lanes.
3) When a team forfeits a series, the members of the team are still responsible for all fees except actual bowling fees.
4) The points for individual effort can only be won when a player without opposition bowls a score higher than their own average less ten pins per game. When a game ends in a tie, the player concerned shall be credited with half of the points awarded for individual effort. Points not won by the team present and bowling shall be abandoned.
5) The points for team effort can only be won when the pinfall total for each game exceeds the team average less ten pins for each player in the line-up playing against the bye or forfeit. If the team’s total pinfall only equals team average less ten pins for each player in the line-up playing the bye or forfeit, the team concerned shall be credited with half of the points awarded for individual effort. Points not won by the team present and bowling shall be abandoned.

So “open” players would technically still need to adhere to Rule 122 whilst competing in league, meaning they can’t switch between left/right or one/two handed.

 

[jimcross]

Yes, Robbie is quite right, you can go straight to the Rules and By-laws Committee, which has all the necessary authority regarding the playing rules. ( I did qualify my original post, in that I said I had not consulted the Constitution, I have now.) but all constitutions, eventually have provisions such that the members are the final authority. In this case, TBA in general meeting has an overriding authority to amend, repeal, etc any rule, or any decision of the rules Committee. ( By-Law 14.2 )

While I was looking at the Constitution, I thought I'd see what the WTBA rules said on the subject. Unless I'm mistaken, and failed to find some reference, I can't see where the WTBA even addresses the matter. Anybody else looked??

This is not only two handed V/S one handed, but neither do they say anything about Left or Right handed distinctions.

I must say that I always wondered why these rule provisions were ever there, since coming across it years ago, when a woman in a league I was in had to change from right to left because of an injury. ( this was back in the ATBC days.)

Frankly, I dont see any reason for the Right / Left, or the One / Two handed rules at all. If someone is ambi-dexterous, in either manner, I don't see why any discrimination should be applied to them.
If it's because they may have an advantage over me, then so does someone who consistantly scores better than I do, for whatever reason. Sounds great - every time they beat me, they forfeit the game. You know, I think I'm beginning to like the idea !!!

 

[Troyza]

G’Day,


By the rules of bowling only have one free hole per ball.

Yeah, this is a messy arguement.

Sorry mate, thats wrong - pretty sure a ball can legally have 12 or 11 holes drilled into it or something? Air release holes are allowed. I can't remember if that's the actual answer, but I know it's some phenominal amount because we all had a discussion about it.

 

[John_Velo]

Sorry mate, thats wrong - pretty sure a ball can legally have 12 or 11 holes drilled into it or something? Air release holes are allowed. I can't remember if that's the actual answer, but I know it's some phenominal amount because we all had a discussion about it.

G'Day Ashley,

You are right, but each one must have a finger in it with only one being allowed to be free. Now I know that I am thinking of the rules from many many years ago and don't know if that has changed since.

So for example, I could have five holes that I use all five fingers in and a sixth hole as a balance hole.

If I drop one finger out on the same ball and bowl, then that would be illegal. For thumbless bowlers they have three hole and the palm must cover the thumb hole throughout the delivery. Meaning they have three holes for the delivery hand plus an additional balance hole if they like.

 

[jimcross]

RULE 603 DRILLING SPECIFICATIONS
VERSION 8.0 – 7-3-11
Page 31

Holes
The following limitations will govern the drilling of holes in the ball:
1. Holes or indentations, not to exceed five (5), for gripping purposes.
2. One hole for balance purposes not to exceed 1 1/4 inch in diameter.
3. No more than one (1) vent hole to each finger and/or thumb hole not to exceed 1/4 inch in diameter.
4. One mill hole for inspection purposes not to exceed 5/8 inch in diameter and 1/8 inch in depth.
Any hole drilled for gripping purposes will not be deemed to be a balance hole. However, when delivering a
ball that has a thumb hole drilled, the player must have his/her thumb in or over the thumb hole. It may not be
180 degrees away from the thumb hole. If a bowler delivers a ball and did not have his/her thumb as defined,
the ball will be deemed illegal for that delivery and pins knocked down with that delivery will not be counted.

 

[Troyza]

G'Day Ashley,

You are right, but each one must have a finger in it with only one being allowed to be free. Now I know that I am thinking of the rules from many many years ago and don't know if that has changed since.

So for example, I could have five holes that I use all five fingers in and a sixth hole as a balance hole.

If I drop one finger out on the same ball and bowl, then that would be illegal. For thumbless bowlers they have three hole and the palm must cover the thumb hole throughout the delivery. Meaning they have three holes for the delivery hand plus an additional balance hole if they like.

Thats cool, I didn't mean any disrespect, I personally found it interesting & thought I'd bring it up.

 

[John_Velo]

G'Day Ashley,

No problem at all, I certainly did not take it the wrong way. Like I keep saying, forums are for every body to learn and share.

Again, no problem here at all.

 

[RobbieB]

John, as long as you can demonstrate that you can use all of the gripping holes in a ball, it is legal whether you use any or all of them. The only restriction is on the orientation of the ball on the hand, it basically has to sit on the hand in the same direction as the grip is drilled.

 

[Bigsy]

RULE 101 SCORING THE GAME
a. A game of Australian tenpins will consist of ten frames. Each player will bowl two balls in each of the first nine
frames except when he will make a strike. A player who scores a strike or spare in the tenth frame will deliver
three balls.
b. A ball is legally delivered when it leaves the bowler’s possession and crosses the foul line into playing territory.A bowling ball must be delivered entirely by manual means and will not incorporate any device either in the ball
or affixed to it which detaches at time of delivery or is a moving part in the ball during delivery except that any
person who has had his hand or major portion thereof amputated may use special equipment to aid in grasping
and delivering the ball providing the special equipment is in lieu of the amputee’s hand.

Does this mean that whatever happens before the foul line is null and void?

This will need more clarification....................I will keep looking.

Bigsy...

 

[Ryan_E]

It must meet BOTH of those requirements... Hence why people that hold onto their ball, and have one foot in the gutter (bad grip or something that made them do it) are still on their first ball, and no fouls are counted..

what the player does to the ball or how he releases it = 'legally delivered'.

 

[Shayne Melton]

RULE 101 SCORING THE GAME
a. A game of Australian tenpins will consist of ten frames. Each player will bowl two balls in each of the first nine
frames except when he will make a strike. A player who scores a strike or spare in the tenth frame will deliver
three balls.
b. A ball is legally delivered when it leaves the bowler’s possession and crosses the foul line into playing territory. A bowling ball must be delivered entirely by manual means and will not incorporate any device either in the ball
or affixed to it which detaches at time of delivery or is a moving part in the ball during delivery except that any
person who has had his hand or major portion thereof amputated may use special equipment to aid in grasping
and delivering the ball providing the special equipment is in lieu of the amputee’s hand.

I'm guessing that there is something else written somewhere. But reading that section, tells me that you can not use a device (wrister) during the delievery of the ball unless you have your hand missing or part of???????

 

[das1604]

The rule specifies devices attached to the ball, not to the hand of the bowler.

 

[dishman]

Grrrrrr........two for 8 ten pn conversions today. Tough today with dry outside boards. Need to practice more.

 

[dishman]

Anyone heard anything from the tba yet? I've only heard from John Coxon? I tried to get clarification as to when it was one can spare one handed. Ie Rachuig, Oz masters scratch tournaments but all he replied was as long as bowlers followed the rules, there wouldnt be a problem? I was trying to work out when the same shot for first and second ball applied as he previously said you you could bowl however you wanted during the masters. But the qualifying is conducted dring the nationals which is an average based tournament. I'm a bit confused as to his response but dont feel like there is much point in continuing discussions with him.

 

[RobbieB]

Dinesh,
The Nats are average based, but the scores do not count towards establishing an average. The rule specifically states you must bowl all deliveries the same way when establishing an average in league. I think FWIW that you can what you want in a scratch tournament, and a strict reading of the rule suggests that you can also spare one handed in a handicap tourney. There may be a case put that handicap tourneys are a no-no due to the 'attempt to gain unfair advantage' rule, but iI personally think that would be pulling a long bow.

John Coxon is the Tournament Director for Nats, I would ask him specifically if a two hander is allowed to spare one handed in the National Championships and Masters or in any scratch tournament.

 

[bowlrig]

I'm guessing that there is something else written somewhere. But reading that section, tells me that you can not use a device (wrister) during the delievery of the ball unless you have your hand missing or part of???????

You are kidding........this is a great illustration of someone misinterpreting what is actually written.

Rob

 

[amagill]

You are kidding........this is a great illustration of someone misinterpreting what is actually written.

Rob

Couldn't agree more!

 

[rambo1]

(a. A game of Australian tenpins will consist of ten frames. Each player will bowl two balls in each of the first nine) funny rule... even if you bowl a strike?

 

[Emery_Paper]

Hey all.

No word from TBA directly on the matter but I checked the TBA website and they have had an update on the rule book.

http://www.tenpin.org.au/fileadmin/...nd_Regulations/TBA_Rule_Book_V8.1__6-4-11.pdf

The updated rules have deleted the reference to two handed deliveries that was previously included in Rule 122.

As such, I believe it is once again legal to have a combination of two handed and one handed deliveries in calculating an average in league!!

 

[jimcross]

Hey all.

No word from TBA directly on the matter but I checked the TBA website and they have had an update on the rule book.

http://www.tenpin.org.au/fileadmin/...nd_Regulations/TBA_Rule_Book_V8.1__6-4-11.pdf

The updated rules have deleted the reference to two handed deliveries that was previously included in Rule 122.

As such, I believe it is once again legal to have a combination of two handed and one handed deliveries in calculating an average in league!!

Good God - You're right. I read that rule 122 only days ago.

Much and all as I agree that the removal of the restriction ( re 1 or 2 handed delivery), no organisation that is supposed to be in any way professional, should just be able to alter a rule by a wave of the hand or stroke of a pen.
Probably not many will agree with me, but if it can be done with one rule, it can be done with any., because alteration or addition would suit someone - just whisper in someone's ear, and Presto !!! Oh,Come on!
Any of you who follow any major sport, try to imagine that happening, and the furore it would cause.