8 pins a game.. with a twist

[jimcross]

Come on Jim you would only have to bowl 100 to average 200, not fair lol

Obviously you haven't seen me bowl lately. Still would'nt get me up there with 'Highest league average in Australia.'

 

[precyse]

I am not aware of any rich and famous, care to elaborate

Ha ha ... This is a bowling thread right? Rich and famous ... Hmmm ...

 

[Mistagear]

I am not aware of any rich and famous, care to elaborate

The rich are the ten or twelve names which always appear in the results at the cashing end, I'm sure everyone could roll out at least half dozen names, off the top of their head, so that qualifies them as famous in Aus bowling world terms.
As far as I see, they are constantly being funded by the other names which also appear regularly, but at the other end of the results, the non cashing end.
I have no problem with the top end bowlers taking advantage of a situation where 2/3 of the regular circuit bowlers are paying them to turn up and beat them. I would however point out to the top end bowlers that the goose that lays the golden prizefund is looking a little thin, some care should be taken not, to starve it to death.
Perhaps a few crumbs occasionally, like for instance the winner of a tournament doing a impromptu lucky draw of the bowlers who stayed back to watch him/her win, and giving the lucky bowler his entry fee back.
Any X Games Bowling tournaments I organize (starting soon) will have built into the format, at least one or more lucky draw prize to non cashing bowlers of entry fee refunded. Every event will have more than one division also.

 

[Roysa]

Hang on Pete.

You aren't somehow suggesting that the better bowlers should rotate "winning" with those who don't win?

There is a reason those same names appear at the cashy end of the list. They are better bowlers. Simples.

 

[jimcross]

Hang on Pete.

You aren't somehow suggesting that the better bowlers should rotate "winning" with those who don't win?

There is a reason those same names appear at the cashy end of the list. They are better bowlers. Simples.

I think he's suggesting that some , additional, emphasis on 'additional', incentives for the 'also rans' may improve the
tournament scene?

 

[Mistagear]

Hang on Pete.

You aren't somehow suggesting that the better bowlers should rotate "winning" with those who don't win?

There is a reason those same names appear at the cashy end of the list. They are better bowlers. Simples.

Not at all, the best bowlers should always end up at the pointy end.
The sports which have a large amount of emotional reward involved in competing have less dependence on financial reward to attract competitors. For those sports, the pool of willing competitors is relatively deep. Bowling, in its current/historic form, does not provide the same level of emotional reward as others so relies on the number of dollars on offer as the measure of status for an event.
Unfortunately it is reliant on the lesser competitors to provide the rewards in bowling tournaments, due to the inability of bowling to attract spectators and therefore sponsors.
So there is the problem, no way to attract money from outside the sport and the only thing that represents prestige within the sport, is the size of the money. The only fix historically is for the lesser competitors to become the cash/prestige providers.

 

[Roysa]

I think he's suggesting that some , additional, emphasis on 'additional', incentives for the 'also rans' may improve the
tournament scene?

Yep I got that bit. Although I'm not sure that the 1/40 chance (example) of me winning my entry fee back through a lucky dip is incentive enough to enter a $200 tournament that I probably had to travel to but I get the idea.

 

[Geoff300]

Not at all, the best bowlers should always end up at the pointy end.
The sports which have a large amount of emotional reward involved in competing have less dependence on financial reward to attract competitors. For those sports, the pool of willing competitors is relatively deep. Bowling, in its current/historic form, does not provide the same level of emotional reward as others so relies on the number of dollars on offer as the measure of status for an event.
Unfortunately it is reliant on the lesser competitors to provide the rewards in bowling tournaments, due to the inability of bowling to attract spectators and therefore sponsors.
So there is the problem, no way to attract money from outside the sport and the only thing that represents prestige within the sport, is the size of the money. The only fix historically is for the lesser competitors to become the cash/prestige providers.

Firstly there are no rich bowlers from tournament bowling in this Country..

Many moons ago we used to have a really strong Grand Prix competition and
there was an event to bowl in every week somewhere.
We still had the top ten winning everything, trust me I know as I was one
paying into the prize fund.... That is the nature of competition

Those at the pointy end , as you say, are generally those who travel the most, practice the most,
get coached the most and attend the most tournaments
That would seam to me to be fair reward for hard work

In any Sport and in any one competition only one person can win
The only way to get better is to get help with your game and practice those skills

The Newcastle cup paid the rats and mice a reasonable return for the cut

 

[Roysa]

Not at all, the best bowlers should always end up at the pointy end.
The sports which have a large amount of emotional reward involved in competing have less dependence on financial reward to attract competitors. For those sports, the pool of willing competitors is relatively deep. Bowling, in its current/historic form, does not provide the same level of emotional reward as others so relies on the number of dollars on offer as the measure of status for an event.
Unfortunately it is reliant on the lesser competitors to provide the rewards in bowling tournaments, due to the inability of bowling to attract spectators and therefore sponsors.
So there is the problem, no way to attract money from outside the sport and the only thing that represents prestige within the sport, is the size of the money. The only fix historically is for the lesser competitors to become the cash/prestige providers.

Hard to oppose that in anyway. It's all very true. When was, if ever, this not the case In Australia in relation to bowling??

 

[Troyza]

Crossfire I think

If it was a crossfire, than it was more than capable of putting down the provided pattern.

http://www.totalbowling.com.au/community/threads/newcastle-cup-2013-open.42925/

The pattern is specific to a wick machine, Crossfire is part of Kegels wick technology range. I'm also fairly certain one could even emulate the same pattern in a Century machine also, but don't quote me on that. If not, you could get really close, as long as wick flow & oil viscosity were the same.

From what I've heard from multiple people, scoring pace was due to either bad lane topology, unmaintained lane machine, or both. Not really something people can blame on a third party.

Sorry for the off topic comments. I'm not against giving bonus pins, but I would be annoyed if I was knocked out from cutting due to some ones 80 pin bonus. If the same women are competing all the time as were before the 8 pins came into play, the idea of 8 pin start is redundant. Just my opinion!

 

[Mistagear]

Hard to oppose that in anyway. It's all very true. When was, if ever, this not the case In Australia in relation to bowling??

All of the past including to current, yet if I have my way, there will be an alternative to the situation. Whether my ideas are supported, time will be the judge.
So far I have invested a large amount of time in researching the psychology of sport to interpret that in relation to bowling. Have spent time travelling to meet and consult with people and organizations involved in the bowling industry. Have invested over $20k to date and scheduled to spend another $10k within the next few weeks on this project to offer an alternative to what "has been" in the past.
Thanks to Bowling Proprietors Association and in particular the gracious gestures made by two Bowling Proprietors, two fledgling local events will occur in January where XGB Pro Score, will be used in a tournament event.
This will be the first public airing for my scoring system and is the foundation of my plans to change the way bowling is perceived by both bowlers and the general public.
I have created a different way to score in an attempt to increase the emotional rewards for bowlers and similarly, to attract spectators to the sport through an easy to follow scoring that offers many opportunities to build excitement in a match and for spectators to share in the emotional content experienced by the bowlers.

Everyone will have ample opportunity to offer criticism or support. My ideas will either be rejected or will gradually expand if people like what I am offering.
Have also been working with Tenpin Bowling Show's Tony Drexel with plans to bring his show back with the idea to appeal and convert a non bowling audience into fans of the sport.
There is no lack of work to do to realize my intention to change the world of bowling into a better, more sustainable modern sport.

 

[jayboybriz]

Will it still be bowling though? What will you name this new sport?

 

[Mistagear]

Name is X Games Bowling, using XGB Pro Score . Intention is to offer as alternative, not replace traditional bowling. To offer Centres software to run leagues and tournaments using the formats I've developed. Graded competitions, short seasons with finals series for league play. Double and Triple elimination tournaments some with a combination of XGB and traditional scoring.
Will have global bowler stats, so people have ability to monitor their performance on a range of criteria, and see how that rates against other bowlers.

 

[Roysa]

A bit off topic but I wish you all the best with that Peter, its a significant $ investment you have made in an effort to improve the sport. I will be watching with keen interest and if you are having Tournies in Sydney Id more than likely have a go.

 

[Mistagear]

Sorry about the off topic.

A bit off topic but I wish you all the best with that Peter, its a significant $ investment you have made in an effort to improve the sport. I will be watching with keen interest and if you are having Tournies in Sydney Id more than likely have a go.

Thanks for your good wishes.
XGB Pro Score sort of has relevance to the 8pin bonus because XGB is graded, you will bowl a match, head to head against an opposition of similar skills, eliminating the need for the bonus.
It addresses the oil condition issue also, because you bowl on a pair of lanes against an opposition to win the match, focus is on winning points,games and the match, not bowling an average score. House shot or sport pattern holds far less relevance in head to head matches.
Anyhow, no more off topic...Apologies

 

[Phluff]

We have run 8 pins a game for females in the Victorian Sports Series for the last 4 years. During that time it has almost never been the case that a female bowler wins based on having the extra 8 pins. The "normal" trend is that while the extra pins do effect the standings, it's only usually 2 or 3 spots due to the normal gaps that appear between bowlers. When females have won events, it's been due to actually being the best bowler on the day or best bowler during an elimination game. We also have a clause that any female winning an event loses her handicap for the following 12 months.

The end result is that over the last 24 events, 3 have been won by females. The female bowlers who have made cuts on a regular basis have (for the most part) done so regardless of the extra pins and are ones who have bowled almost all of those 24 events and gained the experience to play these patterns.

We looked at introducing a handicap for bowlers with a sub 170 average however when you look at their results on a WTBA pattern you find that those bowlers can average 200+ or sub 160, there is really no way of judging prior to the event. I have some bowlers with over 160 games in VSS events on WTBA patterns who average 165 in league but 185 in VSS events. While this collection of averages could allow us to "grade" the series, new bowlers would always be off scratch for at least 12 months so the attraction of having a handicap wouldn't be there to encourage new bowlers.