Tim Mack....Amateur or Professional?

[wchester]

Well folks..Mr Mack flat out destroyed our best bowlers this weekend at the South Pacific Classic.
Now my query to you is this:

Would you say that Tim is an amateur in the true sense of the name? After all, this is a man who makes his living strictly through his bowling ability. He is paid well to represent Storm Bowling products throughout the world, whether his bowling performance is merely average or as in this week's case, superb.

Tim Mack is going to represent the USA in Malaysia at the World Championships next month..because he is an "amateur"

So why the heck is George Frilingos going to be in Brisbane next month and not bowling for Australia in Malaysia?

Please call, write, or email your local and national TBA officer in protest of this idiotic decision.

 

[KimElliott]

wayne

I have never heard Tim say or seen him publish how he makes his living.
As for George, he is not going to Malaysia because he was not picked in the team.....simple

 

[wchester]

KimElliott,

I've never seen or heard Tim say he was an amateur. So I guess he isn't one. It's a well known FACT that he bowls for a living. It's been published around the world.

Your way of explaining the situation is alarmingly similar to the way TBA made their decision.

It would have been nice if the TBA had the balls to stand behind George instead of LOOKING for a reason to exclude him from the team.

 

[Stax]

Hi Wayne,
Quote
"So why the heck is George Frilingos going to be in Brisbane next month and not bowling for Australia in Malaysia? "

I can’t agree more.

On the Tim Mack issue, I don't care what people call him, amateur or pro, this guy is simply the best "amateur" in the world. No ifs buts or doubts. As to his actual status, I’ll state that this is his status…”Tim is the best crowd puller, and pleaser, you could possibly want in your, or any bowling centre.”
Stax

 

[Easy Tiger]

Bowling for a living does not constitute a bowler having a professional status. He does not belong to any professional association, and as far as I know and I must emphasise that I don't know if he has said that he is or not, he has not stated himself to be a professional.

I am not out to offend or anything so please don't take this the wrong way, these are just my thoughts nothing more

 

[steve_jones]

Pls forgive me because it's hard to keep up with what is ongoing in this [and other] country insofar as bowling matters [National Team selection issues at least] are concerned.

Could someone pls enlighten me - from what I read here it appears to be that Tim Mack will represent Team USA at this years worlds - yet the specific and formal reason given [somewhere by someone?] for omitting George F from the Australian Team [for the same event] is that he is [or at least claims to be] a "professional".

Am I reading this right?

Someone with some actual facts as to the issue in question pls respond.

Thx

Steve Jones

 

[craig]

the original ruling for a pro, used to be determined as someone who earned a living out of a particular sport

tim mack bowls for a living

george frillingos is a salesman

 

[Andrew S.]

Fact 1 : George was not selected.

Fact 2 : TBA and/or the TBA selectors were heavily criticised for that.

Fact 3 : Several days after the criticism started a TBA spokesperson announced that George had not been selected because he (George) had previously stated that he intended to make his living out of bowling. Thus making him a professional bowler ineligible to compete in Malaysia.

Fact 4 : Wayne is quite right. If the Yanks have the right to pick Tim Mack, then we have the right to pick George Frilingos.


Speculation : George has been made a victim of politics. He tends to speak his mind and is a pretty forthright person. He is most certainly on the wrong side of those in high places and sadly in this case politics tends to outweigh ability. The National selectors could have picked him but instead merely used his statement as an excuse. It is doubtful if they even contacted George to clarify the matter of his status.


Conclusion : Once again the National selectors have lost a great deal of credibility and the board is as usual ignoring a situation it helped create. If the board does not appeal the selection of Tim Mack it would imply that they endorse it.
So what about it? Perhaps a rethink of priorities is in order?

Of course if the board are frantically working behind the scenes to clarify the eligibility rules, all is forgiven.
However I don't think too many people will be holding their breath.

 

[Sean M]

Well I'm sure George is over it all by now. It will be a very interesting selection period next year thats for sure. All I can say is....... ya gotta love that shirt at SPC!!! :lol: Like your work George!!

 

[Graham]

This is how I understand it :

TBA have "got" George for one single comment that he used on his website.

After winning the Arafura Games in Darwin, George said in an interview "This is a great start to my professional career."

WTBA rules state that Professional is not just someone who is a member of a professional organisation, but also someone who states that they are a professional are ineligible for WTBA Amatuer events.

As a result of all this, George has been given a ban from the WTBA from representing Australia until 2005, a decision which I am unsure whether George is appealing or not.

In my opinion, is that should this have been any one else, they would have had a phone call from someone in TBA to advise of this problem, and the matter would have quietly disappeared from the radar and noone would have been any the wiser.

 

[Graham]

This is how I understand it :

TBA have "got" George for one single comment that he used on his website.

After winning the Arafura Games in Darwin, George said in an interview "This is a great start to my professional career."

WTBA rules state that Professional is not just someone who is a member of a professional organisation, but also someone who states that they are a professional are ineligible for WTBA Amatuer events.

As a result of all this, George has been given a ban from the WTBA from representing Australia until 2005, a decision which I am unsure whether George is appealing or not.

In my opinion, is that should this have been any one else, they would have had a phone call from someone in TBA to advise of this problem, and the matter would have quietly disappeared from the radar and noone would have been any the wiser.

 

[Brett]

I know that Tim Mack does make a living from his bowling career, but that does not make him a 'professional'. He does not bowl enough PBA tournaments to make him classed as any more than an amateur, and he has not publicly said that he is a professional, so I think the USA has every right to pick him in their side.

George Frilingos also does not belong to a professional organisation. However, he did say that he is a 'professional amateur', which according to the rules makes him a professional. I don't believe that it was wrong that Frilingos was disqualified, as it could have meant a lot of trouble for the TBA if they did let him into the Aussie side. I do, however, think that the rule that says people who declare that they are professionals cannot represent their country should be changed, and that it is a very harsh decision to ban Frilingos from representing Australia for a year.

Just how I see it.

BTW, could George have still made it into the team if TBA had told George was in breach of the rules and he renounced his professional status before the selection was done?

 

[Graham]

Thing is George has never been a professional. As ive said before, if i say im the number one bowler in Australia - does that make it so ?

As Sean said, I think Georges shirt says it all .....

 

[Sean M]

Thanks Graham....was hoping someone would post it for all to see.

 

[da_cowman]

The way i see it, this whole debarcle is the problem of the lack of Professional stautus around THE WHOLE WORLD in bowling. Us bowlers have 1, yes 1! Professional association to compete in, and why do that and compete in one country when you can travel the world, paid for by your sponsor, and still win the same kind of money? Other sports generally either have 1. There is one professional association that is in control of all international competetions, and takes the competeing athletes around the world, eg Tennis. Or 2. Each country having their own professional association, but come together for 'internationals' under one bigger professional association, eg Football(soccer).
Now with bowling, as i previously mentioned, we have 1. The PBA, and what is it ? Its the professional association for the USA.
Now, I believe that the major areas of bowling need to develop their own professional associations. One for Europe, one for Asia, and one for the American Continent (North&South) What they need to do next, is diffinatly make sure that these Pro's are earning a hell of alot more money then what the Amatuers can. So that everyone is aiming for a similar goal, TO GO PRO! This way then travel thier respective areas of the world, make money, and compete with the best. Maybe, a simlair format to the one George propsed earlier based off the tennis rankings, could be imposed to find the best 2/5/10/whatever bowlers from their region to represent both that region and their country in a World Championship sometime through the year. But yet, still have the World Cup and other big tournaments that enable people to represent their country, but allow them to be Professional, which, now would have all the best bowlers from each country in them anyway, similar to what they have now.

As for Tim. I see him as a Professional Amatuer. He chose to travel the world making both a name for himself and money. As compared to staying in the USA doing the same thing. However, to the best of my knowledge, he never pledged to, or as, a professional, or professional association of any kind.

These are my opinions.

Later Da Cowman!

 

[da_cowman]

Quite honestly, I'm dissapionted with the response to this topic. It was doing great while we were critising the Australian Selectors for not picking George. But once a positive suggestion, as far fetched as it may have seemed popped up, no-one replies. What is wrong with you people? You all bitch about how bad the TBA is doing, How our selectors are always losing respect, in fact anything negative about Australian bowling has managed to flourish its way to the most talked about topic, for a couple of weeks anyway. When this topic was about Tim Mack, amatuer or Pro and how the USA could pick him for their team, but we couldn;t pick George, everyone was having a stab at the Selectors. I come on here and propose a different way of approaching the game, and what happens?? The topic slowly drifts its way to the bottom of the page, nearly on the second one, never to been seen again.
For a group of people who want to see bowling as a bigger, better, commonwealth and Olympic sport, you sure know how to do it (sarcasm intended). Even if you thought i was dreaming and it was way to complex to work, get on here and propose a different one. Maybe you thought it was a good idea, then get on here and support it. The whole point was to get an idea out there. I honestly thought it was a good one, hence the reason i posted it, to get the confusion of amatuer and professionalism out of the way. Obviously no-one else thought so, and everyone else would rather sit in Australia being a Amateur, let get travelling as a pro, making money. Which, lets face it, is what we wanna do. Making money doing something we love.
So i propose that if anyone else has a better way to get Australian bowling up and going stronger then what it is. Please post, lets get some ideas floating about. As a bowling community, full of bowlers, we know what we want in ranking system, and in the way that we want the big tournies to be bowled, and how to get more international bowlers here, and how to get more of us going international.
I honestly think that the Super 6 is a good idea. Same with the rankings, we need them to get our best bowlers to represent the country at the world cup, and thats how i believe the Bowlers should be selected.

So, in conclusion, start posting some POSITIVE things to help PROGRESS australian bowling FORWARD to bigger and better things instead of just sitting there critisising everything.

Later Da Cowman!
Or for the rest you hiding behind a mask...
STEPHEN COWLAND!

 

[wchester]

da_cowman,
Steve, I like your thinking. Only, I think you're a little misinformed. The PBA is not just America's pro tour it's open to the best bowlers in the world. The only reason you don't see many Asians or Europeans bowling in the PBA is that they think being a big fish in a little pond is much better than being the little fish in the big ocean.

I have tried to organize a committee to look into a possible pro organisation in Australia, but ran up against that age old problem of bowlers being terribly apathetic towards their sport. We held a meeting at the NSW Open a couple of years ago and only a handful of bowlers even bothered to show up

Wayne

 

[da_cowman]

Thanks for informing me Wayne, greatly appriciated.
Keep trying for the pro association here, but I still believe that Australia itself isn't big enough, and we must join with the asain countries to have Professional Association worth running. So wheres the TBA representative that we know have on this wonderful website? let him come on here and let us now why we can, or cannot, at least try to get some sort of Pro Organistation running in this part of the world.

Wayne, correct me if im wrong here again, but the PBA is only competed in the USA with the exception on one or two tournaments a year. True? This was another point I was trying to being up over Tim Mack, who would wanna be a pro, stay in one country and make the same amount of money as a amateur that travels the world? I know I wouldn't. Hence the need for Pro organistion that does travel the globe, it would be more appealing to all the bowlers.

Later Da Cowman!

 

[wchester]

True, the PBA is almost exclusively run in the USA. But I grew up wanting to be one of the BEST bowlers in the world and the PBA is the pinnacle of bowling competition
..not the Asian tournaments, not the European tournaments..not the Middle Eastern tournaments..but the PROFESSIONAL BOWLERS ASSOCIATION, which is open to any male in the world.

Sure, Tim Mack has done exceedingly well overseas. He's also done fairly well at home. But in the end he's JUST another bowler who will never be considered one of the best in the world. You know why?..Because his didn't compete with the BEST to ever lace them up, the PBA champions like Pete Weber, Walter Ray Williams Jr, Norm Duke, Parker Bohn, and so on and so on...
There's something to be said for making money but some of us (meaning myself) would trade a lifetime of money to be recognized as THE BEST in the SPORT!

If George Frilingos reads this....I'm calling you out George! You're good, but if you really want to prove your mettle then join the PBA now and see if you can take your game to another level.

And to the rest of you pansy arse Aussies bowlers....Why not let go of your mum's skirt and get out there with the big boys!

Wayne

 

[Andrew S.]

Thats not a bad strategy Wayne. Persuade all our top bowlers to join the pro circuit in the States. At least it would give some of the resident Yanks over here a better chance.