Priority, Surface or layout

John_Velo

Active Member
Hi All,

It has been a little while, but I have ten or so minutes to spare for a question or two.

I am at the end of my first 12 months back in bowling and I am planning my bowling goals for next year.

One of the goals I set myself for this year was coming to grips with the ball technology. In 24 years away it had changed a lot. I have developed a drilling package that is very different from what I started with 12 months ago, gone up in weight and back down again. Chose to go lighter and be more accurate rather than stay up in weight and splay the ball around my target. Sure the 15’s hit harder than the 14’s but if I leave easier spares with the 14's I will be in front by having less opens. Yes, too much thought there.

What are your thought on your kit choices.

1: for me the grip on every ball has to be the same.

2: I like having two of the same ball in my bag, for example if I could I would have all the same range and model in my bag if possible.
My reason for this is that I will change the drilling layout and adjust the surface for the ball shape I am after and the differences are subtle. As I am still learning I have found this easy to choose when to change balls. The wrong ball choice is also more subtle.

3: I don’t believe in buying different balls then drilling them all the same. I see a lot of people do this.

Now I have heard the argument that the ball surface accounts for the majority of the performance. That is valid to a point. That point for me is up to the first time you change the ball surface out of the box.

I have seen all of the microscopic pictures showing the surface structure and the peaks and valley the manufacturers talk about. But surely the first time I throw that ball on the spinner and hit it with a sanding pad I am changing the ball surface and flattening that surface out to the grit surface I choose.

Yes, not all reactive balls are the same but is the new stuff that much better than some of the older stock of maybe two years ago. When you look at the Columbia and Brunswick range, some of the new balls use a proven core from model Y and add a proven cover stock from ball X and call it new.

What do you do with your kit, how do you build a four bag kit for tournament play?

Do you choose a different ball layout and add the surface to suit, or do you drill them all the same and se the surface to make a difference as the priority?

Do you look at the RG values and core shape to give the roll you want then add the surface tweaks to match?

Thanks for reading and I look forward to reading some thoughts and strategies.
 
I used get my bowling balls all pretty much drilled with the same layout. One of the things I've noticed more recently that layout plays a big part. For instance, at the nationals, I used gear that all had the same layout, and consequently, had pretty much the same result on the lanes with just about any of the balls in my kit. Just this last weekend though, I bought a new ball for the NSW Open, and went with a specific style of layout, that would allow me to play up 5, or outside that even on the short oil pattern we had on the weekend. That was the only ball I used all day.

I think the layout is very important theses days, almost more important than the ball itself.
 
Hi John, interesting post as usual. If you're the sort of person that likes all his gear polished (or dull) then layout is everything. If on the other hand you prefer a certain roll created by layout and drill several different balls the same then it all comes down to surface prep. I've done it both ways, I do find certain layouts work well for me and I'm not worried about frequently changing surfaces to suit what pattern I'll be playing. I don't think there's a definitive answer I think like everything in this sport it comes down to what works for the individual. I do like your idea of getting the same ball drilled several different ways. Might be my next avenue.
There is always the question of altering your roll with subtle hand adjustments to change the shape it gives you as well. I guess that could be tomorrow's topic. Cheers, Paul.
Ps. Looking forward to Mick's thoughts on this.
 
Hey Bluey,

My 15lb kit had three Brunswick Avalanche's in it. The drilling just slightly different. Then I tried to use speed and release for the subtle differences. It did the trick and my consistency improved.

I have just dropped back to 14's again I have two old stock Columbia Throttle ON's if I could have bought four I would have. I have also just plugged my other two 14's a Scout to go straight on the dry and a Momentum Sing that I will drill to be a little more flippy.

The goal again is complementing roll shape. I also changed my thumb pitch to give a little more versatility in my release. So far it is going ok on the Throttle ON's. Again the goal is to increase my consistence and leave the difficulty with human error over poor kit selection.

I will look at getting two other matching balls as I improve my game.
 
I always used to look at the balls natural tendencies. Looking at a balls RG and diff will give you some idea, as well as the base of the cover. There is no point using a cover made of sandstone if you're bowling on carpet. Same as a plastic marble on ice... It won't work. Layout is then used for fine tuning.

After that..

Surface, surface, surface... It equates to about 90% of the reaction. I even go as far as every brand new ball, even before it's drilled, I change it's surface, so I know I can duplicate it. Some factory surfaces are near impossible to recreate.

There is no point having a big motor, if the tires can't gain traction on the surface of the road. You wouldn't use racing slicks in a flood, and you wouldn't use snow tires on a superspeedway.

9.98% of the reaction comes from the core... the other 0.02% comes from static weights, as with most balls these days, CGnomaddah.

I'm sure Mr. Doust and other guru's will, in the most part, agree
 
John, good topic.
Similar to you I am just in the learning stage but more importantly I want to learn, not as much as Dazz but he's always reading stuff and has found things that many people don't ever find, (Dual layout for instance).
I have 2 Seismic balls now and I like the way they work an Aftermath pearl and a Raging bull charged, The aftermath is drilled to roll early and the charged drilled to go a bit longer , it has been drilled Duel layout by ADP for me. I am thinking another charged drilled for length but maybe a solid raging bull. Dazz and I play with surface, we have to as we bowl on friction plus at Taree and then to go on Sports patterns we have to use surface. After reading and talking to people we have found out that 1000 is maybe not as good as wet sanded 3 or 4 thousand we will experiment with that.
Always willing to learn and try things. It just a shame it can be such a dear experiment but you gatt a try stuff.
We are now using different drill patterns more than surface.
 
Surface is the biggest factor. By far. Because it's all about where your ball sees the friction. Surface is your tyres. Surface is where the rubber meets the road.

Layouts affect the type of change in direction you see. Pin to PAP is like the gear box. MB to PAP is like having high and low range.

Dual angle layouts give you exactly the same results as triple arc, providing the driller knows how to map and what reaction they are looking for. I like to use both methods to go over what I'm mapping onto the ball, just to be sure. I'll layout one way and confirm or sometimes reject using the other method.

So back to the car analogy, racing slicks (4000 polish) in top gear (5½" pin to PAP) in high range (6" MB to PAP) is going to give you one hell of a kick off the backend, providing that you have enough ignition (hand revs) to kick the engine over in the first place and enough traction (lane plus ball friction) to get a grip of the track. In all likelihood this combination only works on the straights when we want to turn the corner without so much as a squeal. (i.e. This layout is only for the suicidally-angular inclined or guys who like to to show the girls their big, ummmmm... hook. Don't try it because Jason wrote it down. It's a bad example!)

Likewise, tractor tyre tread covers (sub 500 grit) are good for guys with poor ignition who need the ball to "clutch start" for them. You know 'em... They can push it down the street all day. Just can't get the damned thing to turn over! :p The trouble with big surface is that it can't be accelerated like smooth surface can (tractor tyre vs. road tyre or even racing slick), unless you can generate unholy ball speed with big hand. (I've seen Belmo throw a sanded Virtual Gravity bouncing it beyond the speed of sound off the dusty outer boards of Orange. It's ear-piercingly redonkulous!)

And yes, Andrew is on the money. Static weights make no difference beyond using them to place a hole strategically, which can give a nice tweak to the break and backend shape, which are correlated.
 
Surface.
No need to expand any further then that. Not after the above posts have done it well enough.

Cow
 
Hijacking alert

Say a ball is drilled to read clean, go long, then turn over. With an altered surface can one smooth that reaction out without ruining it?

Until recently i was under the impression grits of 1000 or below would read earlier and increase overall movement. And vice verso, higher grits would read later and not turn over as much or decrease ball movement.

To make an example, my medium oil ball is dead and i dont have enough hand for urathane so i threw my Storm Invasion at NSW open at 2000 grit, it was drilled long and strong. It was reading ok but jumpy(expected that on 35ft pattern). Now if i went to 4000 grit would that of made it less jumpy and controllable? or more angular?
 
Going up higher in grit (smoother surface) can cause the ball to retain more energy, and become more angular... as long as the surface can gain traction on the backend. If the ball is too smooth, and there is carrydown, this can cause the ball to skate past it's preferred breakpoint, and have the appearence to "wiggle"
 
That is the best explanation I've seen (or read) :)
Why thank you sir! (Takes a bow.)

I've been nutting this analogy out for some years now. Still working on it, but the MB as high / low range clicked into place nicely.

I should point out that the Belmo / sanded VG example was amazing to watch. He actually manages to get a 500 grit ball to skate, then not quit. i.e. His rev rate, inverse tilt and velocity combination make it look like a normal ball reaction, just sped up by about 50%. His velocity meant that the ball's friction didn't slow it down appreciably off the spot. Remember folks that the sanded cover also resists being rotated by lane friction once the rev rate matches the angular velocity at the ball's surface to the velocity of the ball. Jason can overcome this with more velocity. Never seen anything like it and will never forget it. Closest comparison would be a drag car launch, only performed by a human with a bowling ball! The impact at the other end was just stupid. Sounded like the Apocalypse being unleashed in the pit. I couldn't stop laughing when he was doing it, as he was burning out a bearing in my bowling nerd propeller cap! It was nuts! (Hope I didn't offend him.)
 
Hijacking alert

Say a ball is drilled to read clean, go long, then turn over. With an altered surface can one smooth that reaction out without ruining it?

Until recently i was under the impression grits of 1000 or below would read earlier and increase overall movement. And vice verso, higher grits would read later and not turn over as much or decrease ball movement.

To make an example, my medium oil ball is dead and i dont have enough hand for urathane so i threw my Storm Invasion at NSW open at 2000 grit, it was drilled long and strong. It was reading ok but jumpy(expected that on 35ft pattern). Now if i went to 4000 grit would that of made it less jumpy and controllable? or more angular?
Tricky one Daz,

If you wanted to stay right and play the friction early, then 4000 and hand up the back of the release. If everyone was burning a spot left of you, then maybe a light scuff with a 1000 over your 2000. Maybe even 1000 and a very light polish. Tilt the release a little to skate the front and turn the corner more. George and Cow are more experienced with sanding than me though. I usually prefer a hand position/speed/angle change.

Cheers,
Jason
 
I know you guys say surface is everything but how do you account for the difference in reaction when someone only uses polished gear? I have 2 Hyroads with the same surface but reaction is miles apart, surely the difference in this instance 100% comes down to the layout? If you prepare all your surfaces the same then the only variance will come from how it's drilled. I guess you could say l'm nit picking a little but some guys don't like sanded gear. So if everything is polished does it fall back to coverstock over layout, then when you take the coverstock out of the equation by having multiples of the same ball it solely comes back to layout? I'm not trying to start an all in brawl (this time) just some healthy discussion and see some different points of view.
 
Once again John a great post ... but only ten minutes. Sat congrats to your father and it was decades over due. And great explanation Jason...

My thoughts are that I agree with you it has all changed greatly and it takes a long time to become used to the moves and ball changes. But some things stay the same and I always have equipment that starts with ex-result then goes from there so that I know which ball follows which, the same as golf clubs ie. 9 goes 130, 8 goes 140, 7 goes 150 etc. and then I don't have to think that much. Of course then you have other series depending on release but it usually follows the same pattern and each ball is different in at least some sutble way. Having a shot with all your equipment always made me think what a waste if they all do the same.
 
Hi Guys,

That is my thought as well Terry. Build the ball foundation (layout) , to give a particular roll path as mentioned by Jason and Andrew.

Then change the surface to suit the condition, wet, dry etc. The roll path will still be the same but the starting point will change being the friction, surface finish.

So would it be fair to say

a: the roll path should be the first choice or starting point?

b: the second point would be the surface tuning to match the condition?

c: on the fly tuning being the delivery?


Thanks again to all the great feedback and thoughts.
 
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