No thumb rule change.
- Thread starter RobbieB
- Start date
Brian Spillman
Member
Robbie, I believe that top weight rule has been changed already. It is 3 oz max. This just something that I saw during a discussion on another bowling forum.
RobbieB
Rodentus scientificus
If that were the case, they would make them leave the thumb in. Without a thumb, two handers are allowed to flip the grip over (pitches permitting) and can drill another set of finger holes in the ball, provided both sets are statically legal, allowing four different layouts on the same ball. What was that about "You can do something we can't"?
RobbieB
Rodentus scientificus
Not according to the current rulebook on the TBA website. USBC allows 3oz., TBA & WTBA are both 1oz. I was under the impression it had been changed as well, but apparently not - or the websites are out of date, which is possible too.
Brian Spillman
Member
The USBC rule would be what I was aware of
Thorpey
Member
If that were the case, they would make them leave the thumb in. Without a thumb, two handers are allowed to flip the grip over (pitches permitting) and can drill another set of finger holes in the ball, provided both sets are statically legal, allowing four different layouts on the same ball. What was that about "You can do something we can't"?
According to the new rule this is still possible: Holes or indentations for gripping purposes shall not exceed five. The player is not required to use all finger holes in any specific delivery, but they must be able to demonstrate, with the same hand, that each gripping hole can be simultaneously used for gripping purposes.
Remember the only time the holes have an effect the ball is when it is rolling down the lane at which stage there is no thumb or fingers in the ball no matter how it is delivered.
rychenroller
Active Member
Robbie I've contacted TBA several times in the past to clarify 2 handed drilling specs, having drilled many balls for 2 handers. Vaughan White twice referred me to the 2 handed spec page in the USBC rulebook, assuring me that "whatever they do, we do" when referring to 2 handed rules. Since then I've always used the 3oz. If using no thumb, some fingerholes would have to be 3" + deep on higher topweighted balls if bringing it back to 1oz
http://usbcongress.http.internapcdn...andspecs/pdfs/2012-equip-and-specs-manual.pdf relevant info is on page 8/9
jason_doust
The Bowling Geek
That all works well unless you are fussy about little things, like the fingers being remotely close to fitting. It's a non sequitur.If that were the case, they would make them leave the thumb in. Without a thumb, two handers are allowed to flip the grip over (pitches permitting) and can drill another set of finger holes in the ball, provided both sets are statically legal, allowing four different layouts on the same ball. What was that about "You can do something we can't"?
RobbieB
Rodentus scientificus
All I am saying is the current TBA rulebook specifies 1 oz. So does WTBA.
May i make a small observation or rather everybody make one.
When was the last time you saw the TBA check a ball at an event, be it league, state or national level?
So, until that happens this rule is a mute point.
Like the 40kph school zone, unless its policed only those that are sticklers for the rules do 40kph.
When was the last time you saw the TBA check a ball at an event, be it league, state or national level?
So, until that happens this rule is a mute point.
Like the 40kph school zone, unless its policed only those that are sticklers for the rules do 40kph.
Nighteyes300
Member
Robbie just a quick one, if you drill a ball with a usable thumb hole (no slug) and bowl it two handed would it not still be a legal ball as the static weights using the center of grip, in this instance being between the fingers, would be balanced by the balance hole (read usable thumb)?
BELMO
Member
This ruling may need a lot of ironing out before it becomes fair.
I am all for a clear ruling on the legality of how a no thumb bowler is to drill his/her ball. But this particular ruling, if not amended with some additions, will cause a catastrophic back lash to the bowling community.
Wait till we see arguments over who is right and wrong? The amount of questioning will be staggering and it wouldn't surprise me if a 'hater' does what ever he can to just get someone DQ'd from an event.
After Aug 1st - the span will be deemed between the fingers - thus making every pin down ball that doesn't have a small pin or a seriously low amount of top weight to start with, illegal.
So, someone like me who has all the resources in the world to get these types of balls will still find it difficult to attain that ball readily when I need it. How is a player who is at their local pro shop with 10 balls on the self suppose to find such a specific ball to drill a simple PIN DOWN ball.
Forget about all the other crazy types of drillings we no thumb players will be eliminated from using now, how about just a simple pin down ball?
I will say once more - I am not against making a rule. It just needs more ironing out.
One idea - allow the palm of the hand to be classed as part of the span? Using the bridge as the span is crazy. Our palms don't move position just like a bowler using their thumb. This will help with some drilling choices we evil bowlers would get to make!
I am all for a clear ruling on the legality of how a no thumb bowler is to drill his/her ball. But this particular ruling, if not amended with some additions, will cause a catastrophic back lash to the bowling community.
Wait till we see arguments over who is right and wrong? The amount of questioning will be staggering and it wouldn't surprise me if a 'hater' does what ever he can to just get someone DQ'd from an event.
After Aug 1st - the span will be deemed between the fingers - thus making every pin down ball that doesn't have a small pin or a seriously low amount of top weight to start with, illegal.
So, someone like me who has all the resources in the world to get these types of balls will still find it difficult to attain that ball readily when I need it. How is a player who is at their local pro shop with 10 balls on the self suppose to find such a specific ball to drill a simple PIN DOWN ball.
Forget about all the other crazy types of drillings we no thumb players will be eliminated from using now, how about just a simple pin down ball?
I will say once more - I am not against making a rule. It just needs more ironing out.
One idea - allow the palm of the hand to be classed as part of the span? Using the bridge as the span is crazy. Our palms don't move position just like a bowler using their thumb. This will help with some drilling choices we evil bowlers would get to make!
Ryan_E
Ryan Edgar
So an overarching question to everyone:
Why was this ruling created? If anything; it makes the playing field more divided...
One handers = Thumb Hole + Balance Hole
Two handers = Thumb Hole OR Balance Hole
One hander, No thumb = Thumb Hole OR Balance Hole
I feel like I'm cheating...
Why was this ruling created? If anything; it makes the playing field more divided...
One handers = Thumb Hole + Balance Hole
Two handers = Thumb Hole OR Balance Hole
One hander, No thumb = Thumb Hole OR Balance Hole
I feel like I'm cheating...
The point of the rule Ryan, is to stop players who are not using the thumb hole as it was intended in the rule book. Some 2 handed players have been moving the thumb hole to gain a dynamic advantage in the ball. Although the 'thumb' hole was still covered as required by the rules, it was not in a position where the players thumb could even be used. This was seen as unfair and basically equated to having 2 balance holes. It would allow a player to swing the core of the ball a lot further from the centre grip line increasing its dynamic potential. This could equate to increased track flare and also an increase in the loping action of the ball as it hits the pins, giving increased drive through the pin deck.
I'm not sure that limiting 2 handers to using the centre of the bridge as the middle of the grip is the right answer either, as it swings the advantage the other way too far. If the centre of the bridge is the only point allowed as the centre of grip, it severely limits the layout and dynamic options on the ball.
I'm no expert in the field mind you, but perhaps a common point, say 2 inches below the centre of the bridge in direct line with the centre line of the bridge would have been a better option.
We will wait and see what comes of it as the wording is fairly vague. Even the term of what is deemed 'using' the hole is open to interpretation. This part of the rule should probably be changed to read that the hole must be used at some stage during the players final downswing to deliver the ball. Another can of worms.
CT
I'm not sure that limiting 2 handers to using the centre of the bridge as the middle of the grip is the right answer either, as it swings the advantage the other way too far. If the centre of the bridge is the only point allowed as the centre of grip, it severely limits the layout and dynamic options on the ball.
I'm no expert in the field mind you, but perhaps a common point, say 2 inches below the centre of the bridge in direct line with the centre line of the bridge would have been a better option.
We will wait and see what comes of it as the wording is fairly vague. Even the term of what is deemed 'using' the hole is open to interpretation. This part of the rule should probably be changed to read that the hole must be used at some stage during the players final downswing to deliver the ball. Another can of worms.
CT
jackson93
Member
Having the bridge as center of grip is going to be difficult for layouts now, more so if anything pin down. Technically it's still not the center of grip due to our palm laying below it. Like mentioned above a measurement of 2 inches below the fingers as a grip center would be more ideal. This still will keep us from using weight holes but will at least make it easier to weigh up and drill balls from a variety of top weights & pin distances. The rule is fine but it's a bit it needs some mass fine tuning
Ryan_E
Ryan Edgar
@ CT. Thanks; that made a lot more sense than other peoples explanations.
I'm defiantly still against this ruling; however I now understand the reasoning behind the new ruling.
Correct me if I'm wrong; but is the new ruling giving one handers the same style of 'advantage' that two handers have now (despite still needing a thumb hole which we can fit into).
I'm defiantly still against this ruling; however I now understand the reasoning behind the new ruling.
Correct me if I'm wrong; but is the new ruling giving one handers the same style of 'advantage' that two handers have now (despite still needing a thumb hole which we can fit into).
Greg Robertson
Member
Lets just ban Balance holes and be done with it.
Graeme Rose
New Member
......and asymmetric cores while we are at it.
Greg Robertson
Member
All cores are asymmetric once drilled
