Hmmmm, suppose AO was a tough pattern if you expected to average 270.
Low scores and tough pattern at Junior Nationals..... thoughts?
- Thread starter GeorgeF
- Start date
Hmmmm, suppose AO was a tough pattern if you expected to average 270.
becka_girl
Proud Vic Chick
Yes AO and VIC150 wasnt hard but if you look at the past 12 months, on the youth and adult circuit we had tough patterns!
You can not say that Australia only puts down ditches just because AO and VIC150 was high scoring.
Putting down some mongrel condition for Nationals. Which will be the only National event 60-70% of these kids will probably bowl in a year isnt going to teach the kids much. The only possible outcome is that the sports loses more bowlers instead of attracting them to the sport.
The coaches of these teams should be forcing there teams and others going to Nationals to train on these patterns at home well before they go away to prepare them for the possibility of tough conditions when they do go away.
If squads go away underprepared thats the coaches fault.
But like Jez said, there no need to destroy a 13 or 14 year bowler at there 1st nationals.
The coaches of these teams should be forcing there teams and others going to Nationals to train on these patterns at home well before they go away to prepare them for the possibility of tough conditions when they do go away.
If squads go away underprepared thats the coaches fault.
But like Jez said, there no need to destroy a 13 or 14 year bowler at there 1st nationals.
becka_girl
Proud Vic Chick
I totally agree that the pattern was too hard for your every day 13 or 14 year old. From what I believe, most of the President Shield teams do train on the hard patterns but yes like I said for your A grade and onwards bowlers, it was a little challenging.
When I bowled president shield back in 2005 and 2006, they put down some very tough patterns at tuggers, if anything this made me hungry to make my game better so I can improve for the following year.
We all have our opinions obviously. Many people have said its too hard and I have even read on FB people saying its too easy (which aint true). I'm sure TBA will take everyones feedback and try and improve for next year
The ones saying it was easy are the ones that finished top 2 or 3 in all stars probably.
You got to handle the young ones with a bit of care. You put down a tough condition & they bowl crap & they spit the dummy & disappear. You do that with the adults and they bowl bad they keep coming back, to stupid to know when to quit.
You got to handle the young ones with a bit of care. You put down a tough condition & they bowl crap & they spit the dummy & disappear. You do that with the adults and they bowl bad they keep coming back, to stupid to know when to quit.
Although it is a tough pattern the Victorian presidents shield team have been practicing on it for 3 months... But for the other 200 juniors I doubt they would have. I have mentioned my thoughts on patterns earlier but the boys and girls who really want that state and national representative spot will go away and put in the effort to make it happen...
As for all those juniors who bowled their first nationals, I can only hope they all have positive outlooks and keep with the sport.
As for all those juniors who bowled their first nationals, I can only hope they all have positive outlooks and keep with the sport.
Easy Tiger
Active Member
Geoff has hit the nail on the head.
My question is, how do kids (and adults too) improve themselves to tackle these tougher patterns when all you generally have access to is your local house ditch? Bowling league and practicing on house shots will not get you to the required level and bowling in the occasional sports series event (which can no longer seem to even get off the ground in QLD despite being the pioneer of it) is not often enough. Sure you can work on your sparing on any condition but learning how to consistently strike and how to play the tougher patterns (more accurately, where to play on the tougher patterns) is something you can only achieve by bowling on them and experiencing it firsthand.
jimcross
Active Member
Off topic - but, I've been wondering lately why I just don't quit.
An answer at last !! Thanks.
Outlawing the House Shot will do nothing....people need to realise not everyone plays our game to compete at a high level.
We need league bowlers who just want to bowl for fun...let them bowl on whatever the hell they want!
If you want to take the game to the competitive level, then put in the hard work which includes asking your centre to lay challenging patterns for you to practice on. Just because I want to bowl on tough patterns does not mean the rest of my league should have to.
The elite in our sport are a very very small portion of the revenue...I know if I owned a bowling centre what I would be laying and it isn't from the WTBA book of oiling patterns....
We need league bowlers who just want to bowl for fun...let them bowl on whatever the hell they want!
If you want to take the game to the competitive level, then put in the hard work which includes asking your centre to lay challenging patterns for you to practice on. Just because I want to bowl on tough patterns does not mean the rest of my league should have to.
The elite in our sport are a very very small portion of the revenue...I know if I owned a bowling centre what I would be laying and it isn't from the WTBA book of oiling patterns....
becka_girl
Proud Vic Chick
It is extremely hard to practice on hard patterns because centres are not willing to put them down but if you practice all different lines etc you should be able to bowl on them when the time comes. People think that in training when bowling on a house shot that you have to hit pocket every single time and bowl the line that suits the pattern...not correct at all, I could tell you how many times I hit pocket on a house shot while training, its not much at all!
What I suggest is sitting down with your centre manager and working out an agreement to get tough patterns put down, some are willing to listen! And of course patterns play different at every centre due to lane surface, weather etc. but still gives you a rough idea of where to play.
Down the Road
New Member
I will agree that this level of pattern is too challenging for juniors, especially when they are not exposed to these sort of conditions regularly enough.
But I would like to question advertised patterns, as this pattern contradicts itself, so was the correct pattern put down?
Tenpin Bowling Australia Limited 42nd Australian Junior Championship
The length of the pattern is 39’, with the drop brush setting at 29’
But reading the pattern sheet it also states that the drop brush distance is 39’. When downloading the pattern text file and opening up in KOSI (Kegel’s pattern program) the drop brush setting is at 30’.
This may or may not make the pattern play differently, you choose.
.
But I would like to question advertised patterns, as this pattern contradicts itself, so was the correct pattern put down?
Tenpin Bowling Australia Limited 42nd Australian Junior Championship
The length of the pattern is 39’, with the drop brush setting at 29’
But reading the pattern sheet it also states that the drop brush distance is 39’. When downloading the pattern text file and opening up in KOSI (Kegel’s pattern program) the drop brush setting is at 30’.
This may or may not make the pattern play differently, you choose.
.
Sinful Sinister
Member
Down the Road yes that was the correct pattern. You also are correct with the 2 different drop brush settings. I always go off the extra comment under the graph as l think the original drop brush on top of the page is for original software in the Kegel Machine? (don't quote me on that though). There is the update for the drop brush. If no extra comment go off top of page. Kosi l have seen do this too, just change it to what it should be.
Big difference from drop brush at 39" compared to 29", would hate to get it wrong lol. Why Kegel just don't update the "Drop Brush" at the top of the page is unsure as this could lead to confusion. If anyone else knows why they haven't l'm all ears to learning
Robbie T
Member
Agreed the pattern was probably too hard for the majority of the participants and the idea of having 2 patterns at Junior Nationals is one that should be seriously considered. Maybe a easy-medium sport pattern for the Nationals and a easy-medium WTBA pattern for the shield and masters.
The real problem with low scoring is (as mentioned before) SPARING!!!
The amount of easy spares i see juniors, and youth (some adults too) miss is astonoshing. 7 or 8 spares in a game is going to give you an easy 160-180 and these should be your low scores.
I remember as a junior, the first thing i was taught was the basic approach and timing. The next thing was SPARING!!! Depending on school i used to get coached 1-3 times a week for 1-2 hours and there were sessions that i would dedicate only to the 10 or 7 pins, or both. This was however when i could use instructomat.
I pride myself on being a good sparer, knowing that i can keep myself in the game by sparing well if i leave pins, which i do plenty of. At the AO i was very annoyed becuase i missed the cut by about 15 pins. My first thought was the 3 single pins i missed, a 4 pin, a 9 pin and a 10 pin, might not sound like many in 16 games but thats enough to miss the final. Needless to say i have been working on sparing since i got back.
TO MUCH EMPHASIS IS GIVEN TO STRIKING BY MOST COACHES WHEN COACHING JUNIORS.
Juniors mostly leave spares, therefore they should learn to spare first. Strikes will come later and more frequently, but having the confidence knowing that if you leave something you will clean it up leads to consistent, hard to beat bowling.
If a greater emphasis was placed on sparing, maybe some of the scores wouldnt be so low, even on some of these harder conditions.
My 2c
Rob
The real problem with low scoring is (as mentioned before) SPARING!!!
The amount of easy spares i see juniors, and youth (some adults too) miss is astonoshing. 7 or 8 spares in a game is going to give you an easy 160-180 and these should be your low scores.
I remember as a junior, the first thing i was taught was the basic approach and timing. The next thing was SPARING!!! Depending on school i used to get coached 1-3 times a week for 1-2 hours and there were sessions that i would dedicate only to the 10 or 7 pins, or both. This was however when i could use instructomat.
I pride myself on being a good sparer, knowing that i can keep myself in the game by sparing well if i leave pins, which i do plenty of. At the AO i was very annoyed becuase i missed the cut by about 15 pins. My first thought was the 3 single pins i missed, a 4 pin, a 9 pin and a 10 pin, might not sound like many in 16 games but thats enough to miss the final. Needless to say i have been working on sparing since i got back.
TO MUCH EMPHASIS IS GIVEN TO STRIKING BY MOST COACHES WHEN COACHING JUNIORS.
Juniors mostly leave spares, therefore they should learn to spare first. Strikes will come later and more frequently, but having the confidence knowing that if you leave something you will clean it up leads to consistent, hard to beat bowling.
If a greater emphasis was placed on sparing, maybe some of the scores wouldnt be so low, even on some of these harder conditions.
My 2c
Rob
I followed the scores from start to finish and I agree that sparing was the difference. The individual games and the stats for the bowlers are provided by the TBA Tournament Team to assist bowlers and coaches know what the bowler needs to work on. Use them as they are invaluable ( single pin misses, and 9th and 10th frame finishes are ones to look at )
Not sure who told me this ( sorry age ) but the saying is " Strike for Show " but Spare for Doe " ( or something like that )
AC
Not sure who told me this ( sorry age ) but the saying is " Strike for Show " but Spare for Doe " ( or something like that )
AC
Go to the TBA website and look at the Stats sheet for Shield
1135 x 9 misses
I will sy it again , That statistic has nothing to do with the pattern
Learn to spare, learn the basics of the game
It is a skill based game
House Shots do not promote the Skill required to play the game
1135 x 9 misses
I will sy it again , That statistic has nothing to do with the pattern
Learn to spare, learn the basics of the game
It is a skill based game
House Shots do not promote the Skill required to play the game
