League Ban ruling - Is it legal?

[Tiger]

Gday guys,
Just a quick one, can a Sanctioned League ban a bowler from subbing & or playing in thier particular league because the player's average is too high?

The late Wednesday night league had a meeting tonight and voted that I couldn't sub or bowl full-time in the league, because they didn't want to change thier handicapping system to 80% of 220.
I'm not particularly fussed by it, as I get on well with all the people in the league.
It's just more conveniant for me to play that league as my third league for the week (as I play the 6:30 league as well) and, I want to play/train on a tougher, broken down late night condition.

Also too, can a league player who is absent for a particular night's match, pre-bowl on thier own a few days earlier (on any pair they like) and have thier scores tacked on to the rest of the team's scores come league night?

Just wondering if any of you people out there might know the official rulings on a couple of these things.

 

[Magpie]

Hey Matt,
Hows it goin' cobba??
I reckon they're using the excuse of your average as a cover-up because as I remember you, there are many more reasons for banning you from the league!! \/ \/

Catch ya soon mate...
Garry

 

[Phluff]

the league constitution should tell you about pre-bowling. The normal rules for pre-bowls are one of the following:
1) None at all
2) Deffered match
3) No more than X pre-bowls a season

I've also bowled in leagues where pre-bowls were allowed as long as another member of the league was there to watch and sign off on it. But as I said, it's usually in the league constitution, so check that out.

As for banning you... haven't seen anything like that. Your high average shouldn't be an issue. It just means you get no handicap.. which can be a pain when you play someone who has a 90 head start and bowls 200 games *grumbles*. I can understand them not wanting to change the handicap system for 1 bowler, but why would they need to? You are the only person a high average really effects.

 

[Tiger]

Hey Matt,
Hows it goin' cobba??
I reckon they're using the excuse of your average as a cover-up because as I remember you, there are many more reasons for banning you from the league!! \/ \/

Catch ya soon mate...
Garry

LMAO :lol: :lol:
Nah cobbah I'm a very relaxed man nowdays.....honest
4 or 5 years ago I might have reacted differently.
Older and wiser these days, dunno where my old temper disappeared too :lol:
Great to hear from you anyway mate, hope all's good in the West

Adam Carr, Gav Hawkes, myself were "strenuosly discouraged" from bowling in a morning league, because we'd all shot 700's in it as subs - and they (more to the point, the President) didn't like it. :lol:
And Phluff, I offered to bowl off scratch, but it had already been voted upon by the league's office bearers - so the decision stood.
Nothing personal against the league or its players (very nice group of people).
I'd just never heard of it happening before 8)

 

[Levithian]

Most leagues introduce average caps on total team averages when they have this problem. The higher average bowlers arent banned, but they are forced to meet the average cap, it tends to even things out a bit. If there isnt anything in their constitution about it, i cant see how they can ban you. If they made an amendment to the constitution mid season, they should have a vote on the change, generally you need a majority points decision as well. Maybe you should suggest to them that they put an average cap on total team averages. I think the league i bowl in at the moment (4 person teams) is 730.

 

[Tiger]

Cool, thanks Levithian. I'll make a few suggestions to them to help them tidy up a few things, I'm always interested too see the grass roots of the sport doing well.
Maybe the average cap as you suggested (there are no average caps here as far as I'm aware) or, a constitutional rule stating no bowlers may be permitted to remain a member of the league should their average exceed 185 for a season, nor will any substitutes be accepted who's highest sanctioned league average exceeds 185.
The average cap maybe a difficult one as, a number of the teams are short of players.
That's the only "after nine" league still around here these days too.

 

[Ben A]

There should be no need to change a handicapping percentage because of someones average. If required or voted upon, a very quick and easy change can be made to the computer system to allow negative handicaps.
ie, If Tom's average was 210, (based on 80% H/Cap) his H/Cap would be -8
If Barry's average was 220, his H/Cap would be -16. So on and so forth.
I know it can easily be done in Computer Score Systems.

On the issue of prebowling, i agree with what 'phluff' said as a lot of rules come from the constitution.
*No Prebowling at all
*If singles, bowl against you opposing player
*P/Bowl by yourself and have staff verify any scoring corrections
*And only a certain amount of P/Bowls through out the year.

 

[Levithian]

Capping individual averages isnt a good idea from my stand point. The thing i worry about is that if you were to cap the averages, it wouldnt encourage competitive bowling for fear of breaking out of the league. Thats why the team cap works well, you can still have a couple of 200+ average bowlers in the team without hassles. Ohh, i should state the average cap is applied to entering averages, not running averages as the season progresses. There are expections, 1; A substitute player, in order to sub they must not exceed the current average cap. So say you have a 200 average, the league cap is 700, and the team you are subbing for total is (minus the player who is away) 550. Your 200 average exceeds the 700 cap by 50 pins and you cannot sub.

2; New players joining the league during the season. Same rule applies, if someone was to drop out and a new player filled their position, the player still has to be under the average cap.

I hope that makes sense?

Also too, can a league player who is absent for a particular night's match, pre-bowl on thier own a few days earlier (on any pair they like) and have thier scores tacked on to the rest of the team's scores come league night?

I didnt answer that

Generally, (from experience) most of the big leagues (say high rollers or money leagues) dont allow pre bowling. There is no official TBA policy on it as such, it is something that can be implemented from league to league. You have to check with the president and see what they have adopted into the constitution. If it specifically says no pre bowling, then it isnt allowed. If not, there shouldnt be a problem at all

 

[Tiger]

Thanks for all your input here guys.
I was always under the impression that all leagues across the country had to follow an established set of rigid guidelines all following roughly in the same way.
Seems that there are many that run thier own show (which isn't a bad thing) and adapt thier own rules to thier constitution.
I'll have to suss out thier consitution and have a bo-peep at it.
It seems a very different sort of set up to anything I've ever seen before here in regard to thier interpretations of certain rules - quite proactive in some ways.

Ben A - I like the sound of the -20 etc handicap system.
100% of 200 - easy peasy

 

[bowlrig]

bet the proprietor would not be happy about a league telling you that you can not spend your hard earned $$$ in his centre.

maybe also they could use a substitute cap of + or - 15 pins on the average of the bowler that requires a sub, saves on the whining about excessive average or handicap

Rob

 

[Andrew S.]

Only recently a Gold Coast league voted unanimously to exclude a player. The matter was discussed and the vote taken at the reformation meeting of the league, and that player no longer bowls in that particular league. Neither Bowl management nor local Association (both of whom were represented at the meeting) had any problem with the ruling.

 

[da_cowman]

We had pretty crazy concept for a 3 man team here. Any 3 bowlers average cap 555(185 per bowler) Bowl a season, and the top 10/12 (depends on how many other bowlers rock up as to how teams are made) averages are now captains. Any people wanting to join the league can, and their highjest average would be used in the proceeding Draft. In the draft the captains pick their next bowlers, with the lowest combined average picking next.
After our last draft we had about 30 pins difference between the highest team combined average(think it was 608) and the lowest one. Which in a scratch league, is fairer then most.
As for the league not letting you bowl cos your average is too high, that is a crock of .... Its handicapped for a reason.

Later Da Cowman!

 

[AdrianS]

This is the most disgusting thing i've ever read! "oh noooooo!!!! its a scratch bowler, they'll take it to seriously, they play it for a sport and sometimes they even get paid money to do it!! ahhhh!" joke, total joke! ( edit, it may not be what these people are thinking but trust me, some peoples attitudes towards high average bowlers are deplorable and not all of them are on the customers side of the control counter either!)

 

[Captain Fudge]

Hi Matt,
I tend to take a slightly different view than most.

What ever happened to leagues fostering the sport?……… isn’t this what we should all be concerned about here?

My view is that it is incumbent on all sanctioned leagues to foster and encourage the sport, I think this is what the TBA would want and expect.
Turning a bowler away because their average is too high is baffling beyond belief.

More so, this is a HANDICAP league, then why the problem in adjusting a handicap system (if that is even necessary, in view of previous comments) if it means having another bowler available to bowl in that league. It must be better than bowling with a bowler short.

As we all know this is a strange world we live in, we have laws about all kinds of things, one of those is we must not discriminate against others for all sort of things. I wonder where this particular league rule would sit before an Anti-discrimination Commissioner?

It is up to you if you wish to pursue the matter but as I said earlier, why would a league not want to cater for all bowlers?…..after all, it’s not as if there is an abundance of league bowlers.
If a league had any sense they would be grabbing every bowler that came their way.

Sometimes I wonder why the sport has not advanced more than it has in the last 40 years, then things like this happen and I do not need to wonder anymore.