How much would bowling a 300 game mean to you?

[GoTheCell]

Belmo has summed it up nicely (thanks Belmo).

I have 31 300's. I have bowled them in over 10 countries (some on TV) and every one i have bowled, especially my first, my legs wobble!

A 300 game is the thing we all strive for, even after a number of them apparently lol.

Why should anyone, regardless of who they are, come onto a forum like this and tell people their 300's mean any less now than they used to because things might have evolved and might be a little easier? I can copy it from the other forums but you have all seen it.

You can read what you want to into what I have written. I said Wayne can twist what I wrote however he wants, not "Wayne twisted it". I said "I think you might be lying" and did not accuse you of it. As for the not comprehending bit, YOU JUST DON'T COMPREHEND!!! The fact that I have written the same thing so often and you still don't get it speaks volumes. (that one was an insult btw). Do you even understand why the question is like it is? There is no point even having the poll, the answer is so obvious even without the choices.

Noone cares what you or Wayne or any other person for that matter thinks when they bowl a 300. Like me (if I ever get one) they will celebrate and enjoy it for what it is.

Saying 300's are too easy to bowl, the proprietors set the lanes up to funnel the ball into the pocket, the balls compensate for bad bowling etc is not mocking the achievements of bowlers and making a 300 seem like less than it should be? I will argue that one until we both get kicked off these forums.

Oh, and I answered the questions well enough.

 

[jason_doust]

Gary, you just don't listen. You have just admitted to setting the question up to reach your predetermined goal. Your agenda is now clear.

Any criticism of this agenda is perceived and manipulated into mockery of people. You accuse people of doing something they are not because they disagree with you and you get upset. But that's OK. If it makes you happy I must be a heartless S.O.B. and Wayne must be a cruel jerk because you say so. We'll live with it.

Here's a list of truths in this thread.

• I do comprehend.
• Wayne has spoken the truth.
• Lanes are often easier today.
• Some houses score at extremely high rates.
• Balls hook more and knock down more pins today.
• Therefore 300's are easier to bowl. (There's a nice graph on www.tenpin.org.au under the records section that proves this.)
• That still makes them great.
• (4th time) They should also be celebrated. (Try acknowledging this so I know when to stop.)
• We (and many others) wouldn't mind if it was all a little more honest or we could at least speak honestly about it without the emotional blackmail that comes from people who would rather believe the beautiful lie over the terrible truth.

It's all true. It can all be concurrently true. There are no absolutes or sides to take from that list. These are just the facts. You believe what you want. Stating the facts does not mock anyone. But what does denial do?

I hope you do bowl a 300. In an honest house. With 12 shots flush. Then I hope you have a great night out with your mates and remember that night with pride forever. Really. I do.

In fact, I wish it for everyone. It's a great experience and none of them is ever like your first one, even if subsequent one's are technically better. I only ever back-flipped on my first one.

Live long and prosper.

 

[Michael Little]

The Sport has a lot of other ****en issues that need to be sorted and discussed before worrying about how many 300’s are bowled every week day…

I am with Jez, well said Jase.

I don't care what anyone says, a 300 is still a 300, Belmo is correct, you are the one and only person who throws those 12 shots, regardless of how easy/hard the lane condition may be. Sure you tend to see "luckier" 300s with pins falling from everywhere, but what game of bowling isnt made up with some luck, whether it be a bad release but u still make the pocket and carry etc.

I still enjoy bowling a 300 or get dirty if I stuff one up. They all count.

 

[Tiger]

I can guarantee you that if we all threw the ball up 15 and put 5 revs on the ball, (like they did 40 years ago) the number of 300's would drop some what!

Ah-hah! I knew there was a reason why I hadn't shot more 300's

I am with Jez, well said Jase.
I don't care what anyone says, a 300 is still a 300, Belmo is correct, you are the one and only person who throws those 12 shots, regardless of how easy/hard the lane condition may be. Sure you tend to see "luckier" 300s with pins falling from everywhere, but what game of bowling isnt made up with some luck, whether it be a bad release but u still make the pocket and carry etc.
I still enjoy bowling a 300 or get dirty if I stuff one up. They all count.

Yep, that's just about how I see it.
The reality is, you can't win in bowling these days, you get a free scoring condition laid down, you bowl well on it and people will generally call 'ditch!' straight away without knowing if the conditions were somewhat easy or you really threw it great or a combination of both.
There seems to be always that general assumption there in the bowling community now.
But on the reverse, if you happen to bowl poorly on it people will be just as quick to scream 'sandbagger!'.
So what are you meant to do? - Let's just play.

In relation to why, with the higher scoring environment we still are losing players out of the sport, I still don't think the scoring is the reason.
In fact, in all the years I've played the game and seen the hundreds, thousands maybe, of faces that have packed it in down in this part of the world, I can only recall about three bowlers leave because of the increased scoring.
It's not really an issue amongst 95% of league bowlers.
I think the bigger problem is the prices that keep going up every year, lack of promotion and that lifestyles are vastly different from the early 90's when the game was flying along.
We don't have as much time for leisure as we once did and people don't seem to socialise (or go out anywhere) as much as they used to.
Fact is, it's not just bowling that's dropped off in appeal since those heady days of the late 80's and early 90's.
I can remember my football team here getting nearly 17,000 to a game in 1990, nowdays they'd be lucky to draw 200 to a local match.
The SANFL, WAFL crowds are miserable compared to those days, the TFL's dropped so badly it went bust.
Basketball was huge back then, our city's team played in the NBL and would pull 4,000 each match to a beautiful new stadium, nowdays that team is gone, and it's replacement playing in a lower level would be lucky to drag in 800 to some crappy looking tin shed out in Creek Road.
The NBL? Have a look at how much that's fallen - staggering fall from grace.
Then there's local soccer, hockey, even Rugby Union - all used to draw good crowds here once, nowdays you'd have more seagulls than spectators at matches.

Don't worry so much about the scores for the moment, that ain't the reason for the drop.
Seems, at least from what I've noticed over the last decade or so (on and off) in my AMF centre, is that league and tournament bowlers have been treated (at varying times) somewhat as a necessary evil and not really made to feel that important or welcome after all their years of loyalty.
But that's just my take, others may see it differently.

As for the OT: I absolutely exploded with joy when I shot my first sanctioned 300, I've got 6 all up (5 not sanctioned) and when I shoot my next one I'm going to erupt again! I love it!
Just gotta stop shooting them in things that aren't sanctioned

 

[BELMO]

Its kind of funny.
Back home, on the golf courses we have, there is a hole in 1 board. There are STACKS of H.I.1's but at each course there is always 1 of the par 3's with loads more 'perfect scores' than the other par 3's........wonder if those who achieved their H.I.1 on the easier holes get ridiculed???

Just a thought!

Belmo

 

[BELMO]

Wish you people in OZ would wake up earlier

Getting bored talking with myself on the forum

 

[mattr]

Wish you people in OZ would wake up earlier

Getting bored talking with myself on the forum

i agree with u guys on this 300 is still 300, i have 17 of them and i still get nervous after 10 in a row

BTW its only 6:30 here Jase, only reason im up is work

 

[vulgarwolf]

i have never bowled a 300, but i was on a pair of lanes thursday night where 2 bowlers in a team were on target for it unfortunately the first member didnt nail the 10th, but his partner went all the way, it was quite exciting to watch, its 1 thing to see 1 perfect game, but to actually be on the lanes where a doubles team came sooo close to a double 300.

Yes i celebrated for them by drinking

 

[GoTheCell]

Jason, you have yet again proven that you dont read these replies before you post. Thats fine, I will assist you.

Back on about the 4th page was the first time I said it didnt matter what question was used for the poll. And I didn't say I set the question up, I said "Do you even understand why the question is like it is? There is no point even having the poll, the answer is so obvious even without the choices."

You either don't read the posts or you truly don't comprehend. I have also said a number of times that I agree it is easier to bowl high scores these days.

Lets see if I can help you Jason. Below are copies of what I have been saying and the reason for this thread.

Right at the start : There have been lots of arguments both for and against 300's being worth anything these days due to oil patterns, ball technology etc. I say it doesn't take anything away from the fact that you just bowled your first 300

Page 2 : How many votes do we need in this thread to prove to you that people who say a 300 game means nothing now are just out of touch with the average bowler? Yes, they may be easier, but that takes nothing away from the sense of achievement if you bowl one or the desire to bowl your first. The "senior" bowlers we have degrading such an achievement need to take a good look at themselves and see if they are in fact acting in the best interests of the sport.

Page 4 : Why make the majority of the bowlers see their 300 game as nothing more than luck and equipment assisted? Do something for the sport and stop degrading the achievements of others. You might not be doing it on the lanes but you are certainly doing it in here.

From Wayne Chester on Page 4 : I do not put down anyone who bowls a 300 game. They should celebrate the accomplishment because there is no higher score possible in bowling. My concern is with the proprietors / managers who cheapen the "sport" of tenpin bowling by giving their bowlers both free hook and hold, thus funneling the ball into the pocket. Personally I think that is about the most hypocritical thing I have read on this forum and one of the best examples of what I have been trying to say.

Page 5 : The fact is that balls, oiling machines and lanes have evolved and a 300 is easier to bowl. That doesnt take away from the achievement of a "perfect game" or the fact that the person who bowled it should be happy about it. I'll say it yet again - start promoting the achievements in our sport instead of taking the gloss off them with your unnecessary remarks about progress.

Are you seeing a pattern here yet Jason? If not let me know and I will put some more quotes in for you.

 

[tenpinyo]

maybe im blind or dont comprehend as well as the oldies like dousty but from reading everyones opinions on here everyone has continually said that a 300 still deserves to be recognised and ppl should be more than happy with it...


however it seems that these days a 300 game is just a 300 game isnt necessarily a 'perfect game'...esp not when u see brooklyn strikes, trip 4's, and an area of 5 boards down the lane...dont get me wrong if u throw a 300 with 12 shots flush and have 1 board to hit u have every right to call that a 'perfect game' but to be honest iv seen ppl throw 12 flush shots in the hole and still only shoot 240 games after leaving solid 8, 9 and 10 pins throughout


so my overall point 300s yes are a great achievement and should be congratulated however are not necissarily a 'perfect game' anymore

 

[mickyd213]

After reading all the posts again... I see that everyone pretty much agrees that 300's are what we all strive for as well as self improvement. But i beleive the conditions as well as ball technology these days are condusive to high scoring. But this is not to take away from the fact that the bowler still has ultimate control of the ball and needs to adapt to the conditions layed down. But there is a wider margin for error now than there was even 5 yrs ago.
I stopped bowling in 2001 and have been back in the sport for around 18months now and i have noticed that now you have a wider window of opportunity to get the ball to the pocket. (mind you, you still need to carry the pins etc) where as when i finished in 2001, you had 1 board either side of your mark, anything outside this and it wouldn't make it back...
I have only bowled one 300 and that was in Wagga Wagga during practice back in 1991. Still i would like to actually repeat this feat in league or tournament again. I'm not taking anything away from those that bowl their 1st or even 10th 300 but i don't think any bowler would say that it means nothing or try to take the glory away from the one who has just bowled that perfect game.

 

[Easy Tiger]

maybe im blind or dont comprehend as well as the oldies like dousty but from reading everyones opinions on here everyone has continually said that a 300 still deserves to be recognised and ppl should be more than happy with it...
however it seems that these days a 300 game is just a 300 game isnt necessarily a 'perfect game'...esp not when u see brooklyn strikes, trip 4's, and an area of 5 boards down the lane...dont get me wrong if u throw a 300 with 12 shots flush and have 1 board to hit u have every right to call that a 'perfect game' but to be honest iv seen ppl throw 12 flush shots in the hole and still only shoot 240 games after leaving solid 8, 9 and 10 pins throughout
so my overall point 300s yes are a great achievement and should be congratulated however are not necissarily a 'perfect game' anymore

Many games back in those days weren't "perfect" and had a lot of luck involved.. maybe even more so than today with tripping pins etc as it was harder to knock all 10 down!

There are a lot of people contributing to this thread (now myself included), who never saw the "glory days" of the sport, nor had the chance to bowl on old time lanes, on old time conditions, with old time balls. What I can observe during my short (roughly 10 years) time in the game is this:

- since about 7-8 years ago, you can have the front 11 and you are lucky if the next pair even notices (as they happen more, since 1999. Why 1999 exactly I'm not sure, I know records lapse between 98-99 as the ATBC folded.. but even from 97, as I am not sure ball technology took a huge leap between 97 and 99.. perhaps lane conditions? It jumped from 24 in 1997 to 204 in 1999 and has averaged around 170 per year ever since)
- tournaments don't have the same atmosphere, I can remember turning up to the 2002 QLD Cup and was just amazed at the atmosphere, it felt like a major and it was what drove me to improve.
- bowlers act like robots these days, there is no animation or emotion
- Prices have gone up exponentially, practice is not affordable for as many now
- state team prestige has dropped significantly in that time
- many of the faces I knew in juniors aren't in the game anymore

For those that want to know what bowling in the old days was really like, pick up a plastic and bowl on a house shot.. from what I can tell it really wasn't a lot different. As Willey has said on these forums before, clean backends have a lot to do with the higher scoring, like when he was involved in a tournament in the 80's where the top average was over 235.

The biggest issue I have with the scoring environment of today is that there is no regulation on conditions, as I have brought up in other posts, where it was said "it can't be done".. yet it was done very successfully in the US for a long time. If we are going to go down this path that we are now with no regulation, then we need to split honour scores.. but same question, who is going to regulate that against conditions.

 

[bowlrig]

Might be easier and stop the sqabbles if we changed the term from "Perfect Game"
to "Perfect Score"

Rob

 

[gwhiting]

Might be easier and stop the sqabbles if we changed the term from "Perfect Game" to "Perfect Score"

Rob

Amazing how it can be summed up in one sentence.

 

[Straight_kut]

Good job rob, problem solved.

 

[Troyza]

Squabbles? Since when does every body have to confirm to one opinion only? It's stupid if you don't stand up for what you believe in.

A perfect 'score' is easier to achieve due to technology, & probably takes much less 'perfection' to throw.

I think that sums it all up more so.

 

[GoTheCell]

I don't think I ever heard Rob be that sensible.

And the purpose of this thread is over now so say what you want. I have achieved what I set out to do so no more arguing from me.

 

[mickyd213]

This has been going on for a little while now and there has been some good points raised. I have stolen this from another thread on this forum and i'll leave it open for all to discuss.

Before you read any further... I am in no way saying that bowling a 300 doesn't mean anything and for those that do SHOULD celebrate their acheivment.

"Flame suit on"

The rougher the bowling ball, the more likely you are to score a strike in ten-pin bowling, according to new research.

A two-year study conducted by the United States Bowling Congress (USBC), found that the roughness of a bowling ball is more likely to result in strikes and higher scores.

The study was prompted after the USBC was criticised over the introduction of new regulations to stem the rise in the number of perfect 300 games at competition level.

"Over the past 20 years, the technological advancements in bowling ... [have] jeopardised the credibility of the sport of bowling," says the USBC report.

In June 2005 the USBC issued new specifications to limit the technology in bowling balls.

But bowling ball manufacturers objected to the new regulations.

"They felt the new specifications were kind of made up, that there wasn't a lot of hard scientific data behind them," says USBC researcher Paul Ridenour.

To combat those concerns, the USBC formed a task force, whose aim was to study the science behind bowling and create new science-based ball standards, instead of the original arbitrary standards initially proposed.

Harry the robotic bowler
Over the next two years the task force tested more than 75 bowling balls using a robotic bowling ball thrower, nicknamed Harry, which threw each ball past 23 cameras linked to a computer.

The scientists studied 18 different bowling ball characteristics, from the amount of oil the outer ball coating absorbs to the shape of the inner core, searching for their effect on a ball's speed, spin and direction.

The variable that most affected bowling ball performance, the USBC discovered, was bowling ball surface roughness.

While a bowling ball might look and feel smooth, under a microscope its surface contains tiny ridges and valleys. These are the result of chemicals and resins used to manufacture the balls.

Getting a grip
These ridges and valleys determine how much grip the ball has on the lane. The more grip a ball has, the easier it is for it to curve, resulting in more strikes and higher scores.

Based on data from the study, the USBC has made several new ball regulations, the most important of which caps ball roughness at 1.27 micrometres, slightly above the average of the balls tested.

The new specifications are "our way of controlling the technology in bowling", says Ridenour.

The new regulations won't go in effect until April 2009, but ball manufacturers are already adjusting.

"This definitely has an effect on what could do," says Steve Klompken of Storm Bowling Balls.

While Klompen wouldn't discuss any specific changes Storm was making to its bowling balls, he reiterated Storm's support for the new specifications.

"We want player scores to reflect their physical ability and not let the technology outweigh the skill of the bowler," says Klompken.

 

[Monbulk]

With the ditches today in most centres it dont mean a thing as it is just getting easier & easier bring back flat programs and see how these so called 200+ bowler bowl
]

 

[Troyza]

As in that other topic, i love the last line of that article. It explains what some of us see as 'realistic opinion'. & it hasn't said that 300 games mean nothing, before someone jumps on me. Just that in todays game, the bowling balls can tend to outweigh the skill of the bowler.