Holt Challenge

[Ando]

I am new to this site and this game. I have been told that the national body is called tenpin bowling australia and that they need the support of all bowlers for the game to exist as a recognised sport, so perhaps someone can tell me why the President of the Holt Committee and all the Holt bowlers think it is great news to announce the Holt Challenge was 121 games short of their goal to take 6000 games away from the national adult competition. Does the Holt event effect the recognised adult national championships? If it does, why is it held at that time?

Or is that the intent?

Another question.
A big deal was made of issuing prize cheques for events at the dinner dance and all present were advised the national organisation for the game could not achieve that. Looking at the handicap ranges on the nationals entry form, I calculate there would have in excess of 400 cheques to write out, assuming there were no more than 3 prizes in any event, way in excess of the 60 odd the holt committee have to produce.

 

[Ice]

I am new to this site and this game. I have been told that the national body is called tenpin bowling australia and that they need the support of all bowlers for the game to exist as a recognised sport, so perhaps someone can tell me why the President of the Holt Committee and all the Holt bowlers think it is great news to announce the Holt Challenge was 121 games short of their goal to take 6000 games away from the national adult competition. Does the Holt event effect the recognised adult national championships? If it does, why is it held at that time?
Or is that the intent?
Another question.
A big deal was made of issuing prize cheques for events at the dinner dance and all present were advised the national organisation for the game could not achieve that. Looking at the handicap ranges on the nationals entry form, I calculate there would have in excess of 400 cheques to write out, assuming there were no more than 3 prizes in any event, way in excess of the 60 odd the holt committee have to produce.

Oh, that is a long story! The Holt Tournament replaced a competition (Walter De Veer memorial Trophy) that was once run in conjuction with Nationals (like Rachuig but for lower average bowlers) which to the disappointment of the many, many bowlers who had supported it for years, was scrapped by the powers that be. They had the support of these lower average bowlers until they scrapped this competition! Hundreds of us paid a lot of money and travelled far, year after year to participate.... until they cancelled it. And so with the generous hard work and effort of some special people, and the support of bowlers from all over Australia, the Holt tournament was created to replace it. I imagine it would have taken many entries away from National championships, after all who would travel half way across the country just to bowl a single, doubles and teams entry? I know of many, many bowlers whom have not bowled National Championships since De Veer was scrapped.

As for the second part of your question that might be best answered by someone with more facts than I.

 

[jackop]

Ando.
You obviously do not know why the Holt Challenge was formed. TBA Australia in their wisdom decidied to do away with the National Tournament for Restricted Bowlers previously known as the Walter De Veer championships so a group of dedicated restricted bowlers formed a new tournament to allow restricted bowlers to perform state against state, mate against mate. Yes we are proud of the number of games we played and it is TBA's fault that they have lost those games. As far as the cheques given out on presentation night goes each team was given a cheque for their bowlers with a list of payouts for each individual bowler. In previous years we had to wait months for payment when we competed in the nationals. I believe at last years Nationals the winners were presented with a chup a chup great incentive to travel hundreds of kms

 

[ThEOnE]

I believe the Holt Challenge was formed by a dedicated of bowlers from the previous Walter De Vier competition that was for one reason or another was no longer around, rumours have it that it was because of the sponsorship and thats not allowed under TBA, and a host of other reasons, I have know idea just what has been floating around.

As i had never bowled in the De Vier competition (and probably never would have) think the inception of the scratch competions to the event is fantastic for those guys (and girls) around the traps that are too good for the resticted but not quite there for rachuig, yet, or cant be bothered with it, like some.
We will not be competative in the restriced (handicaped) format but was so much fun competing against bowlers of the same ilk off scratch. As can be seen it was a very popular event this year, time to get on the gravy train that is HOLT. Its better run, better fun and better attended!

Also i have it on good authority the TBA has even asked the Holt committe to run the TBA Nationals for them!

 

[Sydpies]

Ando, TBA in it's wisdom decided to delete the WDV Challenge from the nationals due to pressure from the State Appointed Managers who are mostly ex-Rachuig bowlers and have no understanding what WDV meant to the Majority of Tenpin Bowlers Australia wide. The sad fact is that TBA who are supposed to represent ALL bowlers had NOT done a comprehensive study of the Majority of Tenpin Bowlers across Australia and their PASSION for an event that would allow them to compete against each other on an annual basis. TBA wrongly thought that they could Hoodwink the Australian Tenpin Bowling Industry into believing that all they needed was to promote our elite and bad luck about rest of our bowlers, who by the way make up approx 97% of our registered bowlers Nationally. Our previous CEO had his head in the sand for so long that he forgot what he was hired for, and lost touch with the 97% of our bowlers. Hence a new CEO and maybe just maybe a plan to rescue Tenpin bowling from the doldrums and move the industry forward and eventually see everyone under the same Umbrella.

The fact that Peter Coburn and a group of hard working and dedicated bowlers have established one of the most SUCCESSFUL events on the Australian Tenpin Calendar is a credit to them & the bowlers.
This event can only become bigger and stronger and ALL Bowlers and Centres should support this event as it will encourage more League bowlers to take up the Challenge and turn HOLT CHALLENGE into a MEGA Event on the Australian Calendar.

And for your information the SENIORS have done the same thing and hold an annual event which is run like clock work and has the support of Hundreds of bowlers Australia wide.

The only way our sport of TENPIN BOWLING can move forward is to provide events that our Bowlers want to participate in at a reasonable cost and Carnival type atmosphere. Not by a TBA board who are so out of touch on what our Bowlers need or require to keep them playing in our great sport of Tenpin Bowling.

Yes we need a National body and we need our ELITE bowlers to look up to as our hereos, BUT we also need to cater for those 97% of bowlers who can only dream about making a State or National dream.

Personally I hope that next years Holt Challenge will surpass 8000 games & show the National body what can be achieved by 97% of our registered bowlers.

 

[JWhitty]

Okay, I may be flamed for this, but here goes;

As stated above, Holt Challenge was created to fill a void made when TBA remove the then Walter De Veer Tournament. A group of passionate and interested bowlers got together and formed a tournament to suit their interests, and it is obviously the same interest that many many many share.

Mistakes were made within TBA, changes have happened both good and bad, and a group of people set out to make something of their own creation. These bowlers were all badly bitten, and now have lost faith in TBA. I think that sums it up.

In terms of competition, you're slightly mistaken. Holt Challenge was brought in to cater for bowlers that had no event to participate in; the restricted bowlers who had their event removed and the classic bowlers who until now were in a void. If Holt was out to compete, you'd need a Holt Association membership card (not a TBA one), and there'd be a Holt Open event from the start.

Where we have been competing is on our passion for the bowlers. People noticed how smoothly everything ran on the whole. How efficiently results were updated. Sure, there was the odd hiccup, and we learned from those and you'll see improvements in those areas.

(On Edit, to address your timing question); The timing of Holt Challenge was originally scheduled NOT to conflict with TBA in October so that all bowlers may do both, and we lined up with ATBSO who are in AMF Cross Road now conducting their equivalent event.

You will find if you read the Holt constitution that Holt Challenge Incorporated requires all participants to hold a TBA membership card. We recognise that the national body is important, and we recognise that it's through membership that we are heard.

Finally, on a pro-TBA note, we should remember that the new CEO has inherited the mess, and give her a chance to see what she can do about it. She has expressed her interest in bringing Holt, ATBSO, and the remaining bowlers together "into one boat" somehow. Let's see what happens.

Jeff
Holt Challenge Tournament Director

 

[jpwebster]

Ando, I don't think that the Holt Carnival took the 6000 games away from the TBA Nationals. We attended last years nationals after a four year break from the sport, the lack of atmosphere and people dissuaded us from even considering going to them this year.
As such we gave the Holt carnival a go and look forward to next years. It had the atmosphere, the fun and the people that a successfully run tournament should have - both behind the scenes and on the lanes!!!!

Cheers!!

 

[Bowling Balls Australia]

The Holt Carnival was bowlers bowling for the sake of bowling and enjoying each other's company and competitiveness in it's purest form.

The organisation - with the people involved from state through to national level - was exceptional, and with those involved, one would expect no less.

The companionship, team spirit and association between fellow bowlers was tremendous to see.

A GREAT event from start to finish.

Max
NB> For those who may be interested - I can tell you as fact - the concept for the Holt Classic Challenge WAS offered to TBA and declined. Smart move......

 

[Peter Coburn]

Ando,

The main reason I did mention the 6000 games bowled at the Holt dinner dance was to reinforce the petition (attached) that the Holt foundation steering committee sent to TBA in January 2007. I happened to quote it in this manner on Thursday night.

This petition requested the re-instatement of the WDV event back into the TBA National and quoted many reasons including a suggestion that 6000+ games would disappear from the nationals if WDV was lost.

Last year Holt bowled 3500+ games in Perth and the TBA Nationals games reduced by the same amount from the previous year. This year Holt bowled nearly 6000 which could have been part of the TBA Nationals if our petition was accepted and WDV re-instated. How this impacts on the 2008 TBA Nationals we will have to wait and see. However, I believe that the ever popular TBA Welcome Squad (480 games) has already been removed.

Sadly, in January 2007 TBA completely ignored the petition. However, the new TBA CEO did attend our 2008 AGM and in part attempted to wave a white flag, hinting of a merged event.

As stated, we have had discussions on a merged event but it is very early days. There are so many things to be sorted which then also require TBA Board, Holt and ATBSO approval but stay tuned . . . .

Prize fund cheques were distributed to all competitors at the dinner dance and mailed to those that did not attend that night. It took no more than an hour to work this all out and write the cheques. ATBSO do exactly the same. It is not really a difficult task and effectively puts the event to bed that same day.

If it is taking other tournaments up to 3 months to do the same exercise then this is an infringement under Rule 816 of the TBA Rule Book and the event should be reported to TBA.

 

[Ando]

Thank you to all those who have helped me understand the reasons behind the previous Restricted event stopping. I don't know much about bowling but I have friends who do it. They have told me the thing was removed because some silly man in Victoria told his team to cheat and and the matter finished in court. They also told me someone in the government told the controlling body to stop it becuase of the cheating. Seemed a shame that all the bowlers had to lose the event because of that. No one has mentioned that in their replies, so they must have got their information from a different place.

 

[Peter Coburn]

Holt Challenge Origins

Ando,

The history of WDV and how this event was created can be found here

 

[wchester]

Ando....The ASC suggested to the TBA that their funding could be in danger if the De Veer was continued...

TBA axed a long standing successful state versus state handicapped event, Walter De Veer Memorial Tournament on the grounds that ASC funding would be at risk if the event continued to be part of the nationals. Below is a snippet from the AGM earlier this year which should provide the correct answer to your question

This was the last question of the day and it ended up being answered by the representative from the ASC (Australian Sports Commision) who took this opportunity to not only answer this question but to give everyone a clear idea of how our sport ranks in terms of gov't funding among some similar sports. The short answer was that he felt that the TBA should not be spending so much time and energy on the DeVeer as it was not an "elite' competition. John Coxon said that there were many complaints of sandbagging and that some of the teams were predetermined due to non disclosure of qualifying rolloffs.

As for future funding, he issued a caveat. Should the TBA stress the fact that there are 3.7 million people who participate in tempin bowling each year, then funding could be at risk, because after all, why would bowling need $230,000 if they have 3.7 million users. ..(PS .I think Gillian has a plan to get some sort of fee from every one of those 3.7 millin participants.)

Complete recap of the TBA AGM open forum can be found here.
http://www.totalbowling.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=27902

 

[happychicken]

I dont know how she plans on getting a fee from each one of the 3.7 mil. That is not fair on center owner s.

 

[Peter Coburn]

Wayne,

So according to the ASC delegate, they suggested to TBA that WDV should be axed or funds will be axed.

TBA complied and then the funds were axed anyway. According to the new CEO, who attended the recent Holt AGM, the funding is now only $70K and must be spent on "grass roots bowlers"

With WDV absent from the 2007 TBA Nationals participation fell through the floor.

So what happens, TBA introduce a new DeVeer into the 2008 Nationals in the form of the state versus state Restricted Challenge. Is this where the $70K is going?

 

[mummaweb]

Isnt it amazing how many stories can be circulated about one subject.

I heard that some of the bowlers and managers had complained about us tinpot bowlers being part of the Nationals and afterwards having the hide to wear our bowling jackets out in public no less!!!!!

In fact there was one guy on the website at the time that went on and on about it. My reaction at the time was "Who is this guy anyway".

All I can say is "Thank goodness things have panned out the way they have"
This years Holt was the best yet. I might even say better than DeVeer (but only just).

Thank you to all those who in their wisdom decided to scrap DeVeer. You did us one hell of a favour and thank you to all those who, with a totally "never say die" attitude went back to the drawing board and designed our new and better Holt. Thank you also to Peter for coming on board.

If we merge back with the TBA I for one will probably not bowl again.