High tech Balls

[DaleS]

Hi all,
Read this on the PBA website - I thought it would be an interesting read for everyone - written by arguably one of the best bowlers in the past 20 years......here it is:

Some of you have read my posts over the years. It's time to reveal my identity, as the topic I am about to discuss is the most important topic for this sport. My name is Brian Voss, and I would like some feedback on this topic. First, let me share my thoughts.

I have bowled all of my life. I have watched the different eras, plastic, urethane, resin, particle, and whatever they're going to come up with next. Personally, our leaders failed us by not having restrictions on how much friction a ball is allowed to have. They failed us big time, and we are paying the price, or should I say the integrity of this game is paying for it.

Many of you argue that technology is happening in other sports. There is only one sport that is compared to ours, and that is golf. So let me comment on what some of you are going to use as a valid arguement. The golf balls are going farther than ever before, that is a well known fact. All of the pros use the new golf balls. In our sport, all of the guys do not use the most aggresive balls. In fact, the ones that do use it are the ones who do not possess the ability to apply a desired spin. You won't see Robert Smith using a leveraged, sanded ball. It would be a disadvantage for him to use it. He is more prone to use a ball that is shiny and rolls more even. Today, everyone possesses power. Everyone gets the five pin out. So power is not an advantage anymore. Secondly, these balls require a huge amount of oil to work. It is possible to oil lanes so that these balls do not work. That is how the public is being cheated. Lanes could be oiled in such a way so that the average plastic ball would be just as effective. The shot would hold up a lot longer, thus reducing the many disadvantages of how a lane breaks down.

When defining greatness, there are three categories which make up greatness. Accuracy, supreme mental toughness, and spin. Accuracy is obvious, as is mental toughness. Spin is the one topic that has been overelooked, and is an integral part of this game. One who possesses more spin should have more power than the next player. The moment that you level the playing field by allowing a variety of different balls, spin becomes nonexistent as a factor of greatness. I'm not talking about how much you can spin it, I'm also talking about how many different ways you can spin it.

The tour is doing so many good things. We have great leadership. They are doing some great things with our tour. But they are failing to restore integrity to the game. It could be such a better sport if they stepped up and made some changes. The idea is to have this game be perceived as a sport. It is not right now, nor will it until this important factor is addressed. I realize that I will not be a favorite amongst the entities that are benefitting from making this game just what it is. A game. It is not a game. I want my children to pursue it, and I want other kids to pursue it. But if things keep going the way they are with more aggressive balls, I won't encourage them to play it. It is not a fair game. Enough said for now. I want to hear your comments.

Brian Voss

 

[Shayne Melton]

You compare bowling to golf and in many ways the games are very much alike. The problem is that you won't stop the ball makers for bowling and golf from improving their products. Golf is about 9 to 11 shots easier then it was 50 tears ago. I have not been bowling for that long but I am told that the game is about 20 to 25 pins easier. This is all becuase of the every improving equiptment. A solution that golf has come up with is to make the courses longer add more hazards, quicken greens, harden greens, longer rough. But you find that this mainly only happens on the pro tours. And the same for bowling, they have a sports condition which is a lot harder condition. Bowling may be easier then before but so is golf and a lot of other sports.
Do you really think that or swimmers are that much faster then the heros of years been.
Is Tiger that much better then Jack

 

[Gail Torrens]

Dale

Brian Voss is airing his beliefs - many of us share his thoughts. Our sport is a money industry that is targeting the system of changing how we play. He is a brave man who is genuine in his desire to keep the integrity of the game.

How we identify a great player - in the 'old' days it was the score - you made the score by being accurate, learning how to rev the ball and hold pocket.

So too has coaching players on the lane - if you do not identify if the ball is reading the lane and if the bowler is too slow in free speed you do not score. The balls now eat into the lane and change the constant that the old players used to play with pin point accuracy. Bowling used to be like a game of chess. The game would unfold before your eyes. Pin by painful pin advantage on your oponent. Most games were close - but the bowler who was the better bowler always won over a number of games - you didn't have to be the person who threw the hardest - just who bowled the best!

I just feel that the lane surface, the oil and the pins have not kept up with the ball technology. Make the pit gutters deeper - make the pins heavier - have a 38ft then buff 'condition' as the minimum requirement for all bowling - social recreational and also competition. Brian Voss is commenting on the fact that you can buy skill - and because of this very soon we will not have a sport?

Players and coaches alike will need to be versed in gyroscopic inertia rather than have knowledge of biomechanics (human movement studies of how we move) and the science and knowledge components of playing the lane.

Ball drillers and coaches will be the same person! (perish the thought). If that is the case - we are already at the place we should not be. We small people have no say in what direction the sport goes. If you can buy a ball that will add 30 pins to your average of course you will buy it! The ball driller becomes the most important person in your bowling career and then stays there to sell more equipment when that one stops working.

No answer - just more questions!

Gail Torrens

 

[DeadMan Walking]

how is it a money drivin sport if you buy a ball that does nothing but get you splits because you cant control it,whats your new bity ball going to do on 32 and a half feet of oil,sure technology has proved to make the sport easier,its alot more even,you get the wrong ball for your style and uve just wasted about $400,however if you get the right ball for your style uve just added to your average,why should power make me better than you,that would massively increase the average difference between men and women,no offense girls,if you do the wrong thing with one of these new balls that are constantly coming out and increasing power,your screwed,if you hit the same spot consistantly using the right ball then you deserve to get high scores,why should u lose when some1 has the right equipment???,because they are hitting the same area ball after ball and they have read the lanes the best,i dont agree that a plastic ball should be as good as a fuze eliminator,at the moment you have to think of speed,line,ball and what your going to do with all 3 to make those high scores,a brand new ball doesnt think for you,you still have to think for yourself,well thats my opinion anyways

 

[DaleS]

Thanks to all for their comments - the reason I posted this article was that I thought it was an interesting comment on the state of the game and equipment today by a man who is in a position to know and is not afraid of any of the possible repercussions his comments may bring.

Now then - just to add some on my own -

I have to agree with Gail on alot of points, all this article does is raise more questions than answers. But like golf - we cannot stop the progression of technology in our sport, nor, I believe should we.
Is Tiger better than Jack, is Pistol Pete better than Rocket Rod - that I'm afraid can never be answered, just like the question - are todays to gun bowlers better than those or 20 or 30 years ago the likes of Joe Velo, Ken Sheehan, or Eric Thompson or even is walter ray williams better than earl anthony - who knows. But, technology - not just ball technology, as Gail has said coaching has come along way too, as has Lane technology all of these factors have played its part and that is neither a good nor a bad thing, just something that we as bowlers have to get used to every day.

Just my thoughts........

 

[sandor]

Technology

Technology has been an issue for so many years now, i even remember when plastic came out and gave you an advantage, we all wanted a plastic ball back then too

Technology is here to stay, if you buy a $400 high tech ball you still have to know how to bowl it and on what condition and on what line, it may give you a few pins extra on your average but only if you learn how and when to use it otherwise your average will go down

If your average does go up then your handicap will go down, and that is another can of worms that we are all too familiar with

 

[Brenton_Davy]

Gail Torrens wrote:

Players and coaches alike will need to be versed in gyroscopic inertia rather than have knowledge of biomechanics (human movement studies of how we move) and the science and knowledge components of playing the lane.

Ball drillers and coaches will be the same person! (perish the thought). If that is the case - we are already at the place we should not be. We small people have no say in what direction the sport goes. If you can buy a ball that will add 30 pins to your average of course you will buy it! The ball driller becomes the most important person in your bowling career and then stays there to sell more equipment when that one stops working.

Sorry, Gail but on this one I have some issues.

1) Ball Drillers and coaches will be the same person (perish the thought)

I have always believed that a coach needs to know at least how to set a ball up to suit a player, so what is the problem with a ball driller being a coach. Indeed I believe it to be an advantage, almost crucial.

2) The Ball Driller becomes the most important person in your bowling career.

The Ball Driller has ALWAYS been a crucial part of a players career. A ball driller that knows a players game and how it adapts to different conditions is a crucial part of a players support team. OK now more so than in the past, but the top players in the past always had the better ball drillers because of their ability to set up the correct equipment the correct way to best exploit the players ability.

3) Players and coaches alike will need to be versed in gyroscopic inertia rather than have knowledge of biomechanics (human movement studies of how we move) and the science and knowledge components of playing the lane.

You sound as if you fear the ball driller will make the coach redundant. THAT WILL NEVER HAPPEN, especially if the coach is reasonably versed in ball layout techniques and proper fitting for their players equipment. A knowledge of biomechanics is as VITAL NOW AS IT HAS EVER BEEN. This is purely because the player with proper technique AND suitable equipment, will still have an advantage over the player who only has equipment properly set up for the conditions and his game such as it is.

I know we disagree as to whether or not ball drilling (or at least layout and fitting) should be a part of advanced coaching. These are just my opinions, however, if you look all over the world, the majority of the best coaches, are also very competent ball drillers or fitters.

 

[Brenton_Davy]

I'm glad I am a better coach and ball driller than forum poster, the quote is suposed to be of what Gail wrote, not what I replied with.

 

[Gail Torrens]

I knew I would stir up some people with that comment. I am not afraid of technology of the balls - I have coached ball drillers spoken to many on a variety of subjects. Most see only the ball when a ball is bowled - nothing more - some are coaches doing a fine job like yourself (in the real sense of coaching).

Ball drilling and layout are part of the coaches required knowledge - where did I say it was not - I have been coaching for many years. I have coached long term I take ALL my permanent players through equipment resurfacing and how to prepare equipment for tournaments and then I send my players to a specialist (the up to date ball driller specialist) for layout instructions and matching their arsenal of equipment - All my players know how to find a PAP on their ball and know the basics of matching their ball to the lane.

I have recently been overseas for a month where I sat in ball drilling seminars (3) - A Regional PBA tournament - and I was an invited guest coach and coached alongside coaches I have enormous respect for, coaching a field of international bowlers who went to the States to be coached! - only to come back and KNOW the processes I have been using over the years are correct.
I make no apologies for my methods, beliefs and systems. I share information freely with other coaches from other states. Only one other person in Australia shares my description of a power player versus a stroke player. I believe what I believe and I do not worry about opinions and numbers who think otherwise. I guess I am at the age that I am just comfortable with how I see things and if people disagree - so be it.

I encourage all my players from the age of 17 onwards to drill their own equipment - my athletes are not coach dependant nor ball driller dependent - because it is the athletes responsibility at a high skill level to be in control of their own game - network with the best people in every field and use specialists. This includes body, mind, equipment, lane and biomechanists - (or skills coach). The highest skilled players do as many of these processes as they are qualified to do and network out the rest!

I think I am the only person I may be wrong who has held a Bowlers expo where I have made available ball spinners (5 or 6) and shown the everyday bowler techniques to use to score in tournaments - I ask top performing athletes to share information and also top ball drillers to give advice. These people are specialist - I think it is beyond any coach to keep up with bowling ball technology and what the every day international player will learn from other internationals.

Your comment about making the coach redundant is true - a good coach does make themselves reduntant! While I am proud of the athletes who I have coached in the early days - each is in charge of their own game - You do not see me behind my players because I think they need my advice - I enjoy watching high skilled players - my bowlers are confident players who KNOW what to do next.

Many High skill bowlers ask for advice - I am happy to oblige and flattered that I am asked - I give an honest appraisal of SKILLS possessed and areas that may be improved in technique. What success I have had in the past is primarily because I am good at what I do - I am a SKILLS coach. I am not stuck in the chasm of coaching how I bowl (no one would score over 150 if that is the case) I can determine how forces work that make a bowler of any style more efficient - time money and a lot of study and work with many styles of bowlers have taught me these things - not sitting over a ball drilling rig. The right ball is critical at the top range of playing and having a sound efficient strong platform and levers to deliver that bowling ball is the other half of the equation.

Brenton you have been around as long as I have been and you know I speak what I think - I know you spend a tremendous amount of time helping players and I know you agree with some of my points - If you disagree with some of my views OK - that makes the world go around.

The problem with doing all facets of all jobs yourself is, many persons will not have 20 years experience equate to 20years of experience but one year repeated 20 times in some subjects.

Hope to catch up with you at the 2004 Nationals in Victoria.
Gail Torrens

 

[Brenton_Davy]

Thats interesting Gail, because I recall at the Coaches Forum at the 2002 Nationals at Bankstown, I recall you stating that you did not think the coach was required to know about ball drilling, and you have stated to me in the past that you always left those matters to the ball driller. It is nice to see that you have changed your thinking on that score.

Keeping up with technology is easier than ever due to the easy availablility of the internet and whilst understanding of the finer points would prove difficult, a basic understanding of modern technology is now far easier than it ever was.

I agree that players should be coach independent. This however doesnt make the coach redundant, nor any other aspect of the players support network. THe player who becomes TOO independent risks becoming to narrow minded and hence losing sight of the broader picture. A coaches role then becomes that of an independent set of senses, a rational viewpoint that isnt affected by the pressure of the moment. The same thing applies to the ball driller.

In my case coaching and ball drilling is my profession, my livelihood, so it is encumbent upon me to have the necessary knowledge of these elements, including some knowledge of gyroscopic inertia and biomechanics.

I dont claim to know it all, far from it. I learnt things at the US Open this year that I could not have imagined and that knowledge has benefited me and the people I coach since. The day we believe we know everything there is to know is the day we begin to fail those we are charged with assisting.

Anyway Gail

 

[Gail Torrens]

I did say that to you Brenton - but I have no interest in doing the drilling thing myself - I have been interested in the past - and went to the effort of buying a ball drilling rig - (yes) - a second hand one - North South East West set up only - and had a go - got all the drills which cost me in dinosaur days over $1000. I paid it off at $50 a week until I had paid for it (I was only earning $230 a week in those days).
I ended up giving the ball drilling rig away - to one of my students to use to learn. In this time I had developed a way of identifying if a ball worked or not (you know if a ball is working or not just by watching the bowler and watching the reaction on the lanes and one the pins also).

I put my faith in the skills of persons like yourself who have a passion for layout configurations the hand fit and pitches to facilitate a relaxed high skill release. If there were not persons around who take the time to be good like yourself and various other ball drillers in some parts of Qld that my bowlers use I would be involved more I can promise you.

Although I am not interested in Ball drilling I am intensly interested in Bowling ball reactions from layouts. I do not need to do these myself to incorporate game plans to use these layouts and this is where I think the coach should be.

Cheers
Gail

 

[Funky Chicken]

Going back to the original article by Brian Voss, I have one huge disagreement with what he says.

That is that the mark of greatness is measured by

1) Accuracy - I agree Totally

2) Mental Toughness - Again Whole Hearted Support

3) Spin - You Have to be Kidding.

Are you trying to tell me that Dick Webber was a lesser bowler than Mark Roth or Amletto Monacelli just because he doesn't hook the ball as much ???

This is a ridiculous statement by someone who should know better. Is it no wonder that kids coming through the ranks think that they have to throw a massive shot to be good at our sport, and in the process forget about the things that DO lead to success namely accuracy.

Yes we would all like to throw a shot like Robert Smith, Rudy "Revs", Pete Webber and the like, bust some of us just aren't physically able.

What is wrong with emulating some of the other great players in the game namely David Ozio, John Petraglia, Earl Anthony, Chris Batson, Joe Velo, and Frank Bubanew(To name but a few). These guys weren't huge turners of the ball, but had marksmen like accuracy which made them household names in America and Australia.

In my mind the keys to greatness are (In order of priority):

1) Accuracy - See Cara Honeychurch

2) Mental Toughness - Ditto

3) Good Sportsmanship - Nobody likes a bad winner or loser, we are all here to win but there is no need to be rude, arrogant or generally unsporting to achieve your victory.

4) Humility - For those truly great bowlers remember that your God given talent is something others would sacrifice body parts for, so instead of looking down your nose at the "minions" of bowling be humble and talk to them and maybe pass on some knowledge. Who knows some of us no name bowlers might actually be nice people.

Cheers

Steve Hunt :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

 

[GeorgeF]

You forgot to include Walter Ray Stephen! He has shown us all that accuracy and repetition is still the key to winning. Yes more revs is more power but at the end of the day, the best bowler wins the tournament for the right reasons, I still to date have never seen a revs per shot contest in a tournament! Not yet anyway.......

 

[Gail Torrens]

Hey guys I think you are doing Brian Voss a discredit here - He meant not hooking power but revolutions - revs do not always mean massive hook (I guess that also relates to where you bowl) - When the guys in the States say spin they just mean a 'working' reving ball.

Cheers
Gail

 

[RobbieB]

Steve, I think Voss is right in including both power and accuracy as keys to greatness. The sad part about the game of today is that under some all too common lane conditioning practises, accuracy becomes virtually meaningless. The great bowlers of the past were either very accurate with a reasonably strong shot, or threw extremely strong balls while still being fairly accurate. There were very good bowlers around who had one part of the equation or the other - Hoover, Bluth, Shlegel(sp?), and Bob Handley for instance - and many will never have heard of them. Since the demise of shellac, accuracy alone is not enough - and nor should power alone be enough. The game has, to an extent, lost that balance these days.
The mental game is the key. Many, many people have sound physical games and lack the knowledge to get the best from their shot on any given condition. Or to allow their body to execute a quality shot under pressure. And again, this is an area which is also affected by the lane condition. There is a difference between making a good shot, and not making a bad shot.

 

[boybrowny]

My two pence !



1st let me say -
Brenton / Gail - I respect and admire both of you for your skills/ knowledge and most of all your genuine desire to help bowlers and bowling.

Robby - I think it is fair to say that the majority of good bowlers agree with you (and Brian Voss) - however the fact of the matter is that if you dont keep up with technology you are giving away pins.

I think you are a better bowler than some of your results indicate - spend some time with the best ball driller you can find (and most knowledgable) and part with some cash and get some NEW EQUIPMENT (not new second-hand).

If the equipment is properly selected and configured for the condition you bowl on - it will add pincount. No if's, no maybe's it is a definate.

I like to see nothing better than area bowlers flounder when they realise there is not a big area, or the lanes aren't what they are use to. This highlights the 'lack of skill' some bowlers possess.

HOWEVER - once you get to the national level (and I am talking Australian National Level - not USA or elsewhere in the world) - it is the bowlers who possess the KNOWLEDGE, SKILL, EXPERIENCE and EQUIPMENT who pool at the top of the qualifying squads time and time again.

Each one an intergral part of the game, and each one comes at it's own price to the bowler to acquire.

I would like to see nothing more than equipment go back in time - so myself (like others) can test ourselves on conditions that require more skill, more accuracy, more consistency and more concentration.

Ball manufactures cannot be blamed for coming up with ideas to sell more and more of their products.
Bowling center owners cannot be blamed for laying a condition OR attracting a class/type of bowler who PAYS THEIR BILLS.

AND tournament bowlers in this country can blame no-one else for the lack of prize funds and lack of participation in cash tournaments other than themselves.

Bowlers want to see big prize funds and tournaments with hundreds of entries?

Then guess what - those bowlers are going to have to pay for their wish. They are going to have to pay to bowl (or watch) tournaments when they are in their states - they are going to have to travel to bowl in that extra tournament they normally wouldnt (some going with the knowledge they will not be winning enough cash to cover costs).


We all know that IF WE GET BIG PRIZES AND SPONSORSHIP - THE BOWLERS WILL COME,

But did you know IF WE GET BIG NUMBERS OF BOWLERS - BIG PRIZES AND SPONSORSHIP WILL COME.




On a final note - I just want to say that I intend to put my money where my mouth is and as from January 2004 I will be attempting to go to as many national tournaments as I can - and all I can say is I hope to be bowling on the toughest sport conditions we can muster against the best of the best of Australian (and some international) bowlers.

 

[boybrowny]

PS - Ball driller !

Oh yeah, forgot to mention - These are ball drillers I have used (or have seen their work on others) and would recommend to ANYONE.

Brandon Qually, Brenton Davy, Rudy Turoczi , Ken Sheean, Dave Cooper and Ruth Gurster.


Brando is my current ball driller - however (as I happen to agree with Brenton about ball drilling and coaching), I am expanding my knowledge and skills regarding equipment and I will be punching out my own gear (and my daughters !) from now on.



Cheers

 

[Strokes]

Who says high rev players can’t be accurate as well?
I've seen Pete Weber playing 20 board for 5 consistent strikes on one lane.
And 22 board for 6 strikes and a slightly high 4 pin.
He didn’t miss his target on the lane by more than half a board over twelve shots, and in my books that’s pretty accurate.
And to add to that he was using different balls on both the lanes.

But yes I do agree that its not revs over accuracy, because if you can’t repeat the shot you’re not going to get the results that the pro players strive to reach.
What I think Voss was trying to say was that if you had all three, accuracy, mental toughness, and spin, you would make a pretty decent player.

 

[RobbieB]

Robby - I think it is fair to say that the majority of good bowlers agree with you (and Brian Voss) - however the fact of the matter is that if you dont keep up with technology you are giving away pins.

I think you are a better bowler than some of your results indicate - spend some time with the best ball driller you can find (and most knowledgable) and part with some cash and get some NEW EQUIPMENT (not new second-hand).

Peter, I agree that ON SOME CONDITIONS technology is necessary to be competitive. And I don't feel that the new tech is of itself a bad thing. It is the easy lane conditions prevalent today that have stuffed bowling as a sport, not the balls - the balls just make the problem more obvious.

Thanks for the plug :wink: but I have a ball driller whose ability I and others respect. My biggest problem is that I bowl 4 games a week - nobody can be competitive with the cream of our bowlers without doing a resonable amount of practise no matter how good their fundamentals are. If and when I decide to have a serious crack at the majors for a couple of years, I'll make the effort to get my game and fitness in shape. Until then, a once-a-week chucker I shall remain. 8) (You'll be pleased to know that I have got some new gear, though) :lol:

Why didn't you make it to Ayr?

 

[Brenton_Davy]

Who says high rev players can’t be accurate as well?
I've seen Pete Weber playing 20 board for 5 consistent strikes on one lane.
And 22 board for 6 strikes and a slightly high 4 pin.
He didn’t miss his target on the lane by more than half a board over twelve shots, and in my books that’s pretty accurate.
And to add to that he was using different balls on both the lanes.

If you want to check out the US Open pattern for 2003, and check out the high rev players that made the cut........................

The only cranker that made the cut was Monacelli and he did so playing a 11 rev spinner. Weber made the cut stroking it. As for the "power players"........... well, lets just say I was paired next to Robert Smith for the entire tournament and all I can say is that when faced with 2 boards of area at 45 feet, (which we all were) anyone playing a high revving swing shot was OUT TO LUNCH! Suffice it to say Smith finished over 100 pins BEHIND ME!

The lane condition was 40 feet of 1:1 ratio from 3 board to 3 board and 1.5:1 2 board and out. I saw Norm Duke throw 9 in a row into the right gutter trying to play 1 and 2 board during official practice. There was no area out there either and I can guarantee at least half the bowlers I saw tried it during official practice. No-one could make it work.

It was also interesting to see the reaction of the high rev players to the condition. They did nothing but drill up more and more bowling balls and complain how hard it was.

From my own perspective, it showed me 3 things

1) I have a LONG........... LONG way to go to be as accurate as Walter Ray Williams. I have never seen anyone split boards as often as that man. I dont care what anyone says about his technique, the man is AWESOME!

2) Conditions I thought were tough in the past in NO WAY were on the same planet as this one was. A true test of accuracy, not only of line, but of release, loft, leverage, speed and timing.

3) The crankers over there require area, maybe not as much as in Australia, but they STILL REQUIRE ROOM LEFT AND RIGHT OF THEIR TARGET and when there was none, they were patently unable to create it.

I know this will generate some heat, but, remember, I was there, I saw it, competed on it and got slaughtered on it (149th out of 349)
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