Our game is not in balance!

[elitesportpromotions]

I read this on a US forum post...
" It is my opinion that if a ball manufacturer finds a way to improve a bowlers scoring potential then it has done what it is suppesed to do by offering a better product. It is also my opinion that bowlers are supposed to try to find ways to use any of the many tools at their disposal to maximize scoring potential. It is also my opinion that lane maintenance procedures should be used to bring balance to the above variables. Instead what has happened for many years now is that lane maintenance procedures have been used to increase scoring to the point that the game has become unbalance. Soft conditions dramatically increase scoring only for those with the knowledge and abilities to exploit the patterns.Those without the knowledge or ability might as well be bowling on a sport pattern for all the good it does them. All they know is that they are unable to compete but they do not understand why this is so. High scoring conditions make it impossible for novice players to be able to compete with the elite players because of a lack of balance in the game. I submit that it should be the resposibility of the governing body of the sport of bowling to insure that balance, or integrity is restored to the game. Without balance the game will die. Perhaps when enough people stop buying this defective product it will occur to someone that it can be improved upon."
I am very interested in you thoughts on this issue!
Rose

 

[mongoliantreesloth]

....Soft conditions dramatically increase scoring only for those with the knowledge and abilities to exploit the patterns.Those without the knowledge or ability might as well be bowling on a sport pattern for all the good it does them. All they know is that they are unable to compete but they do not understand why this is so. High scoring conditions make it impossible for novice players to be able to compete with the elite players because of a lack of balance in the game.

Bear in mind that "soft conditions" will help encourage the less experienced bowler as they will be able to see their scores steadily increasing and they'll stay interested for longer. With regard to knowledge and abilities, these are earned by practice and dedication - not bestowed by right.
If conditions are made harsher and newer bowlers cannot see their scores improving, they may well give up after a while rather than persevering and becoming better as a result. This would do nothing for the game as a whole.

 

[easymoney06]

No matter what ball you get, it comes down to what you can do with your ball not what the ball can do with you.

 

[finspin]

I agree with Fred,
I cannot really comment on the Australian experience.
However in the UK, we have bowling alleys that care and other that just want the money. Leagues are the bread and butter to most bowling alleys. They can earn more money with open bowlers, childrens birthday parties etc.
I noticed the other day whilst practising in the afternoon at a centre that I do not normally use, a large group of 12/13 yrs school kids bowling. The bumpers were up and they had no idea. I think they were bowling instead of running, skipping and jumping. The bowling alley should have taken the chance to turn them into bowlers by instructing them. Maybe then they would turn them into long term (life long) paying league members. There is a trend to employ managers who are not bowlers, have qualifications in business and only look to increase profit.
I have personal experience of a centre restricting leagues to accommodate open bowlers, to a point that that all the leagues eventually left and joined other centres. In two years that centre closed.
My centre (Airport Bowl) changes the oil patterns every few months, people moan, averages go down, they go off to the proshop, hoping to buy the answer. Slowly they learn how to play those conditions. Conditions cannot be tough all the time, high average bowlers need encouragement. Having said that, bowling centre cannot keep offering easy conditions, they need to change the conditions to keep the bowlers honest.
Bowling alleys, offer coaching in some small way when doing the birthday parties. If you have a proper youth bowling scheme at the weekends, advertise it at these parties. Proshop could help, wander down to the lanes, approach the open bowlers, give your knowleage freely at first. Once hooked, they will be buying your goods. These kids could be the life blood to the sport and long term paying customers.

 

[amagill]

Great post Alan (Finspin) I couldn't agree more. We need to catch the kids as early as we can, & if you have someone offering free advise/pointers to kids who are there for school sport, birthday parites, etc, I think we would definitely "hook" a fair percentage of these kids into the sport of tenpin bowling...

 

[ShadowWolf]

from what i have seen, Bowling alleys in australia are like any business, money first ppl second, yes some alleys look after there league bowlers but most want birthday parties and stuff.

If something is not done soon bowling as we know it will die from lack of support

 

[Easy Tiger]

I agree with Fred,
I noticed the other day whilst practising in the afternoon at a centre that I do not normally use, a large group of 12/13 yrs school kids bowling. The bumpers were up and they had no idea. I think they were bowling instead of running, skipping and jumping. The bowling alley should have taken the chance to turn them into bowlers by instructing them. Maybe then they would turn them into long term (life long) paying league members. There is a trend to employ managers who are not bowlers, have qualifications in business and only look to increase profit.

Absolutely true, I know.

As for having the staff "instruct" the social kids, that's not so easy. I've been there and done it as a staff member in a bowling centre and to be totally honest, it's often not encouraged. This isn't because the centre don't want you doing it, but rather there is a culture of "you should be doing something else, other things need doing". Like wiping a table which frankly shouldn't come before intructing a bowler, however you tend to get evil stares from "other" staff departments because they seem to feel you are just socialising and not doing your job, or theirs..

Another issue I have seen is where you will get one lot of staff being all for increasing the profile of the sport, and gaining new regulars, and the other lot will be purely focussed on the social - including open play, birthdays, parties, functions, etc. These are normally the staff with a zero bowling background. Clashes ultimately occur because one lot will say "this brings in the bigger bucks", and the other will say "this is the future of the sport, and the key to its longevity".

If you disagree with one or the other, you tend to become an unpopular staff menber pretty quickly because you're upsetting the status quo, or being a rebel, or being controversial, not fitting in with the centre's goals, or whatever else.. it depends on the culture of the centre.

My passion has always been in the future of the sport, and I have tended to deviate little from that in the time I have been involved with any centre. It doesn't always make you a popular staff member.

What I'm saying is, unless an entire centre has the future of the sport as its vision, it's very hard to be the odd one out and try and coach new talent or potential players. "Socialising" is not done.. you're paid to work, so don't forget it!

Enough rambling, time to get back to my real job, thankfully for 40 hours a week I don't have to think about that stuff..

 

[jedi_bowler]

Great Post Finspin.
Could not have been said better

Frosty

 

[jason_doust]

We appear to have got off topic here. The original post refers to the classic argument by the ball manufacturers that 100% of bowling's problems lie with the centre operators. It's a simplified argument that deflects criticism away from them.

 

[bowlrig]

What it comes down to is that Tenpin Bowling from start to finish is a business before it is a sport.
The lane and machine manufacturers are in business and competition with each other ~ thus better higher scoring lanes.
The lane maintenance companies are developing better lane oils, not for better protection of lanes but better scores ~ therefore they are competing.
The ball manufacturers are also businesses in competition with each other therefore the balls are not going to stop getting better.
Finally your bowling centre is a business first, that caters for your sport, not always the way you like. Bowling centres are not only in competition with each other but every other sport, cinema and leisure time activity.

Grass roots is the way to go, but this should not only be the responsibility of the bowling centre but should start with the governing body of our sport.
If you want conditions that are harder then petition the governing body of the sport to enforce a ruling.

All for now, run out of time.

Rob

 

[edfleminglanes]

Great post Rob totally agree.

 

[jason_doust]

I read this on a US forum post...
" It is my opinion that if a ball manufacturer finds a way to improve a bowlers scoring potential then it has done what it is suppesed to do by offering a better product. It is also my opinion that bowlers are supposed to try to find ways to use any of the many tools at their disposal to maximize scoring potential. It is also my opinion that lane maintenance procedures should be used to bring balance to the above variables. Instead what has happened for many years now is that lane maintenance procedures have been used to increase scoring to the point that the game has become unbalance. Soft conditions dramatically increase scoring only for those with the knowledge and abilities to exploit the patterns.Those without the knowledge or ability might as well be bowling on a sport pattern for all the good it does them. All they know is that they are unable to compete but they do not understand why this is so. High scoring conditions make it impossible for novice players to be able to compete with the elite players because of a lack of balance in the game. I submit that it should be the resposibility of the governing body of the sport of bowling to insure that balance, or integrity is restored to the game. Without balance the game will die. Perhaps when enough people stop buying this defective product it will occur to someone that it can be improved upon."
I am very interested in you thoughts on this issue!
Rose

What it comes down to is that Tenpin Bowling from start to finish is a business before it is a sport.
The lane and machine manufacturers are in business and competition with each other ~ thus better higher scoring lanes.
The lane maintenance companies are developing better lane oils, not for better protection of lanes but better scores ~ therefore they are competing.
The ball manufacturers are also businesses in competition with each other therefore the balls are not going to stop getting better.
Finally your bowling centre is a business first, that caters for your sport, not always the way you like. Bowling centres are not only in competition with each other but every other sport, cinema and leisure time activity.
Grass roots is the way to go, but this should not only be the responsibility of the bowling centre but should start with the governing body of our sport.
If you want conditions that are harder then petition the governing body of the sport to enforce a ruling.
All for now, run out of time.
Rob

It’s interesting to come back after so many years and see things from an outsiders perspective. These two posts offer intertwining subject matter that I’ll weave together here.

Higher (not necessarily better) scoring lanes today come from a number of factors, the biggest being the hyper-reactive bowling balls. This has already been well covered by John Davis of Kegel, with the backing of the world's finest players. Let's not forget that last bit.

The second biggest factor is the blocked conditions, because Joe Bowler faces great difficulty controlling the superballs without them. The predominance of blocked lanes is the direct result of the balls.

The third biggest factor is the increased backend reaction & flatness of a synthetic surface over a timber lane, which has greater issues of topography. Then there’s bouncier pins etc. These things are more minor, although not insignificant.

Obviously bowling is a business. Obviously you want your house to be playable and profitable. But what about durable? These days, you can stand at the foul line of most houses and see where the oil stops at 10 board and becomes a feeble smear outside of it. Subsequently, the outside portion of the lane becomes glazed from lack of protection from today’s aggressive gear. When you oil this part of the lane, it then plays like a reverse block because of the burnishing effect of thermally responsive resins smoothing the surface. The balls are damaging your lanes. And you are stuck with a ditch as the only pattern that works.

The "if a ball manufacturer finds a way to improve a bowlers scoring potential then it has done what it is supposed to do by offering a better product..." argument is grossly incomplete and symptomatic of the tunnel vision people choose to have these days when faced with complex situations. The answer is not “Don’t tell me, I don’t want to hear it.” The ball manufacturer is damaging the lanes and mucking up the whole game. Get it?

The easy conditions (as well as so many flat releases) exist because of the harder to control balls. Straighter is greater at present because the game is under the control of the world’s least athletic nation. The answer is not “Why should I do it myself, when I can get it in a box?”

When reactive resin appeared in the early 90’s, I remember having a conversation with the owner of a number of centres who made the comment that the same amount of money came in month to month, only pro-shop sales were up at the expense of practice games making the business less profitable. Bowlers thought then, as they do now that quality practice could be replaced with hook-in-a-box. Every damned one of them was throwing the new ball straighter than the old one in a month, then looking for the next ball. Most of them have now quit bowling.

What the hell happened?

• Who gave the bowling ball manufacturers the right to damage the lanes?
• Who gave the bowling ball manufacturers the right to syphon off bowling centre's profits?
• Where the hell was the ABC and especially the BPAA during all this?

In the words of the great Tom Kouros. "I love the game of bowling. I just wish we'd get back to the game I love."

 

[wchester]

I agree 100% with everything Jason Doust said in the previous post.

Yes, bowling is a business. However high scoring conditions only really affect around 10% of our bowlers at the most. Why then do today's bowling proprietors continue to follow the destructive lane oiling patterns that not only lead to long term damage their expensive lanes, but do even greater harm to the SPORT of bowling.

Stop being followers and start being industry leaders. Bring back honest scoring conditions now or get out of the game and let someone with vision and intergrity take us forward.

 

[Easy Tiger]

Yes, bowling is a business. However high scoring conditions only really affect around 10% of our bowlers at the most. Why then do today's bowling proprietors continue to follow the destructive lane oiling patterns that not only lead to long term damage their expensive lanes, but do even greater harm to the SPORT of bowling.
Stop being followers and start being industry leaders. Bring back honest scoring conditions now or get out of the game and let someone with vision and intergrity take us forward.

Because bowlers will leave and go down the road to the next centre which offers easier conditions. Simple enough to explain. Unless TBA enforces leagues sanctioned under them to tighten conditions, nothing will change. Simple as that. The biggest problem at the moment is that nothing is uniform. Tournament conditions are basically unplayable to a bowler who has only bowled on a house shot. Until these conditions are introduced at a league level across the nation, tournament bowling will contunue to suffer. Whatever is done at a tournament level must be followed at league level in this country, due to our numbers.

Look personally I am ALL FOR having tournaments where all you can use is a plastic, I think it would really give an idea of who can bowl without free hook. I frequently practice it, its much more enjoyable to me than throwing reactive free hook.

 

[wchester]

Because bowlers will leave and go down the road to the next centre which offers easier conditions. Simple enough to explain. Unless TBA enforces leagues sanctioned under them to tighten conditions, nothing will change.

Just the kind of answer one would expect from a bowler who is still on their "L" Plates in terms of bowling experience.

As I said earlier....it is up to the proprietor to say NO MORE! Doing it your way and saying it's up to the TBA to hand down a much stricter lane conditioning policy is simply a case of a person with no spine, looking for a scapegoat.

Who said bowling was supposed to be easy? When did it become more important to have enough money to buy yet another hi-tech bowling ball, than it was to go down to the alley bowl for a couple of hours a few times a week and work on your physical game, while learning the finer points of lane play.

BOWLERS NO LONGER PRACTICE. Why should they, when they need only to grab another bowling ball out of their bag and voila..XXX


Why are the proprietors afraid? The top 10% of your bowlers may grumble and sure, some of them will go elsewhere to bowl. But what happens when the next bowling centre owner also says NO MORE! C'mon guys, start the ball rolling and bring some credibility back into bowling.

I've been in love with this sport for over 40 years, involved in it as a desk person, professional bowler, pro shop owner, general manager, marketing executive and consultant. I only hope it's still around for our children and grandchildren to enjoy.

BOWLING PROPRIETORS.....THE FUTURE OF OUR SPORT RESTS IN YOUR HANDS.

 

[Resurrection]

As i have said before and will say again I am not strictly for high scoring. If I was i would have stayed at the proverbiable ditches of Boronia and Mooroolbark and i have suggested that we have a tournament where as we go back to basics and use only a plastic ball and it has been tried by one centre and no-one supported it.

Yes i agree 100%with both posts of Jason and Wayne but in reality without the big scores to overinflate the bowlers own ego the bowlers will leave in droves. Not to mention even if the TBA did lay down the law and produce a league lane condition policy how do you police it.

Now lets come back to reality, there are i believe around 50 AMF bowling centres in this country that go under the same banner in which they they have been instructed ny maquarie leisure that they have to make a certain amount of money each year. If they start doing what we (the lovers of this sport) want them to do then they will lose money because the bowlers with the overinflated ego will leave and even if they don't go to the centre down the road they will leave the game all together.

So yes we have to bring some regulation into the game but realistically we can't because the proprietors HAVE to bow down to what these ego mongers want.

Just my 2 cents worth

Matthew Lambrick

 

[Easy Tiger]

Just the kind of answer one would expect from a bowler who is still on their "L" Plates in terms of bowling experience.

I don't claim to be a professional Wayne, of course my experience is limited.

But I also know that centres aren't going to enforce it "for the good of the sport". Why should they? I'll give you an example. Around here we have 3 bowls within a stone's throw of each other - Kedron, Aspley and Chermside. People got jack of Kedron's conditions, Aspley got a Kegel, people went to Aspley. Chermside also took some of their business. Now why would Aspley or Chermside now turn around and change their conditions and risk losing their player base? I might be wrong, but I can't see it happening anytime soon, sorry Wayne but I disagree with you there.

Tim.
PS - see hamster? told you!

 

[bowlrig]

Sorry Wayne, but I have to disagree with some of your post.
It's not about proprietors having the balls, its about having common business sense. The sport side of bowling is up to TBA as that is why we pay lane levies & bowler registrations. Just the same as AFL is a business from a club point of veiw and the sport side of the game is left up to the AFL and it's commisioners.

Rob

 

[wchester]

Sorry Wayne, but I have to disagree with some of your post.
It's not about proprietors having the balls, its about having common business sense. The sport side of bowling is up to TBA as that is why we pay lane levies & bowler registrations. Just the same as AFL is a business from a club point of veiw and the sport side of the game is left up to the AFL and it's commisioners.
Rob

I knew you'd disagree with me Rob. That's one of the reasons why I've chosen to post of this subject. Let me put it to you this way..

I've never been to your centre but answer this for me would you. Did you enact a no smoking policy in your bowl because you know it's not good for the health of your customers or di you do it solely because it was mandated by the powers that be. ie gov't.
It's the same thing with the health of bowling. I would hope that you cared enough about the long term health of our sport to have the balls to do something about it on your own and not wait for some governing body to get off their arses and do it for you.

Be a leader, not another owner waiting for bowling's cancer to arrive end our sport's life.

THINK ABOUT IT ROB...WHY LET 10% OF YOUR CUSTOMERS DICTATE TO YOU. THEY'LL RUN YOUR "BUSINESS" OUT OF BUSINESS.

 

[bowlrig]

I knew you'd disagree with me Rob. That's one of the reasons why I've chosen to post of this subject. Let me put it to you this way..
I've never been to your centre but answer this for me would you. Did you enact a no smoking policy in your bowl because you know it's not good for the health of your customers or di you do it solely because it was mandated by the powers that be. ie gov't.

Wayne, my centre has been non smoking for nearly 7 years now, 5 years before it is mandated, and for the betterment of conditions for the non smokers. About 30 bowlers said they would quit bowling, only 1 did, and now she is back anyway.

It's the same thing with the health of bowling. I would hope that you cared enough about the long term health of our sport to have the balls to do something about it on your own and not wait for some governing body to get off their arses and do it for you.
Be a leader, not another owner waiting for bowling's cancer to arrive end our sport's life.
THINK ABOUT IT ROB...WHY LET 10% OF YOUR CUSTOMERS DICTATE TO YOU. THEY'LL RUN YOUR "BUSINESS" OUT OF BUSINESS.

As for letting bowlers dictate lane conditions to me, ask any of the local bowlers what say they have on lane conditions here, ask any of the bowlers that come for the marathon how easy it is to bowl here. There are even a couple from your neck of the woods that frequent here, they do struggle to maintain thier home averages.
We try very hard to look after our small league base here because we would not survive on the social and party side of the game.
We inherited a centre that was in a downward spiral, that in all likelyhood would have closed if we had not taken over, we are slowly turning it around but we must run it as a business not a sport, for now at least this is the way it must be.

Rob