Can a bowler be truly successful without coaching?

[BigDaz]

Gunna do a John Velo here and start up a Hopefully interesting thread.

I have always wondered, had i been coached as a younger bowler, would i be a better bowler now in my adult life, or would it have not made much difference.

The obvious answer is yes, but i feel i have good knowledge of the game, and equipment from mostly just keeping my eyes and ears open and trying too learn as much as i can.

As a 15-18 year old bowler i had a few of the more experienced guys throw a suggestion my way, but the only real "coaching" i've received if u would call it that, was a 30 minute session with a man by the name of Lindsay Coles. Many of you might know him, many might not, however, he showed me a line that would suit me, and suggested i slow my shot down a bit (14-15 year old me didnt see how that would help) and told me to bend my knee more at the line. Session over, and would occasionally hit his knee as a gesture to me to get down lower, if he saw me throwing games at the bowl while he was working there.

Then in 2009 early in the year i got some bowling balls drilled by Peter Zambelis. Before he even saw me bowl, told me "your a thumb bowler, i can tell just by looking at your hand" i was quite amazed, anyway after the drill he spent some time with me, atleast an hour. Trying to show me a nicer release, i'd imagine it would have been quite frustrating for him, never the less he gave his own time up to help me, and the year after aswell (i had relapsed into my old release, hand outside from the pushaway, no power or roll)

Lindsay got me shooting 160's from that advice, and after my session and great ball drill from Peter, i shot 201 average that whole year at Taree in league, which had NEVER been done for 1 year straight.

Now i feel, that i will never surpass my current abilities, and it seems the more i learn about proper technique, the more problems i find with my shot.

Setting a poll up and would love to hear opinions on the matter. Can somebody be a successful bowler without coaching or some form of a guiding hand.

 

[John_Velo]

Hey Daz,

I think yes. I only have to look a dad to know that answer. He did everything wrong, but got it right for nearly 20 years.

But for most of us a little help is all that is needed. The rest is practice and repetition and above all, honesty in the type of bowler you are. I believe ball sports need time to master, or a big dose of natural talent.

These days we need to get our heads around the equipment and make it match the type of bowler you are, that is the honesty part. That requires coaching and a knowledgeable helping hand. Years ago that issue did not exist as all balls were black and rubber.

I accept that I am a league hack with a goal to improve.

Good thread.

 

[jason_doust]

Yes. If naturally talented. And extremely dedicated, keen, coordinated, adept at learning and figuring things out for themselves, and a bunch of other things.

But add a coach into the mix and you can take many years off the process and even avoid injury. That's where really good coaching comes into it's own. It saves players a LOT of time and money because it puts them into good habits faster and explains and avoids pitfalls along the way.

This is why I'm such an outspoken critic of blocked lanes. I see guys averaging 200+ who really aren't much above 180 technique-wise. Coaching is actually made more difficult on these conditions, because the feedback mechanism (the bowling lane) tells sweet lies to assuage our delicate egos. Make them easy, sure. But not funneled to the pocket.

Even great player benefits from coaching. It's only lesser players who attach the bizarre stigma to coaching that I am saddened to see. Some folks would rather be right than happy though.

It's about time I caught up with my coach for a check up, come to think of it!

Cheers,
Jason

 

[Ash]

I'm with Jason, You could be successfull, sure, but with coaching you can be even better, much faster.

I know that had I got coaching early on, I could have avoided years of "Figuring things out" and not developed a few very bad habits (which I now pay for and am constantly working on).

The limited time I have spent receiving coaching has done so much for my game that I didn't even notice at first. It's always good to have a outside set of eyes let you know what you are doing right, and what you are doing wrong.

Basically, My answer boils down to, coaching may not be nessesary, but it's definitely highly recomended.

 

[willey]

I know both Lindsay and Peter, both very good Left Handers, your not Left Handed are you Daz?

Now Peter has Coached some of the Best in Australia e.g, Amanda Little (Bradley), Robert Thompson (is he still Bowling? ).

You should be privelleged to have him give you some assistance.

willey

 

[bomber_comfort]

Get coaching, good coaching to be all you can be. I wish I did so younger.

 

[Macka69]

I voted yes if naturally talented... But I would also agree that a coach will get you to the top faster and that another set of eyes is a great asset to wittle away the common mistakes that are holding you back.

 

[AH1992]

Then in 2009 early in the year i got some bowling balls drilled by Peter Zambelis. Before he even saw me bowl, told me "your a thumb bowler, i can tell just by looking at your hand"

I know a number of juniors that are currently coached by Peter. He is amazing - just takes a look at their hand, gets them to throw a ball or two and hey presto suggests the correct weight, ball and drilling style for them. His current crop of juniors are really on their way up. There is a junior league at Warners Bay where 4 out of the top 5 on the current standings are coached by Peter. At a NSW ebonite series, 2 of them came in the top 10 - amazing some of the regulars and one was the top qualifier at the Junior Nationals this year.

My opinion - yes it helps to have coaching as a junior - but you need a good coach that gives the best advice (even though some of the juniors think they know better at times)

 

[BigDaz]

I know both Lindsay and Peter, both very good Left Handers, your not Left Handed are you Daz?

Now Peter has Coached some of the Best in Australia e.g, Amanda Little (Bradley), Robert Thompson (is he still Bowling? ).

You should be privelleged to have him give you some assistance.

willey

Nah mate not left handed i'm a righty. Lindsay worked in Taree bowl for a short period so i met him there originally. Great style so smooth, not hard to tell he knew his stuff.

And Del Ward who is a local here, used to bowl the circuit in the 80's i think and bowled out of mayfield aswell, knows Peter very well and suggested him to me as a ball driller. I didnt ask him for assistance when he did my ball drill but he still worked with me for over an hour anyway, and didnt want anything in return.

Im still trying to improve my shot, i either throw the ball well and score bad OR throw it bad (normal) and score well. Whenever i get my shot in a good place i seem to relapse into my old style. I dont have the availability here to just practice on lanes for a price. I have to pay for games. Plus i have 2 children in my care and dont have the time to put in the hours needed to improve my swing and release.

Peter suggested, to get my swing and release right i would have to introduce it slowly via release drills at the foul line. Then when im doing it correctly, move back and do a 1 step approach and swing, then 2 step etc etc. As stated above, my centre wont allow me to do that. And i dont want to pay $20-$30 for a session of foul line drills.

 

[RobbieB]

Peter suggested, to get my swing and release right i would have to introduce it slowly via release drills at the foul line. Then when im doing it correctly, move back and do a 1 step approach and swing, then 2 step etc etc. As stated above, my centre wont allow me to do that. And i dont want to pay $20-$30 for a session of foul line drills.

Why do you need to be in a bowling centre to do release drills?

 

[John_Velo]

Hey Daz,

I do my rlease drills on one knee in the lounge room, and my one step drills in the back yard with an old ball.

I do my push away drills any where I like.

It would be nice to say I can spare the single pins all the time, but I never miss the coffee table in the corner of the lounge room.

 

[Ryan_E]

I used to do release drills in my bed room with a few pillows against my drawers.

 

[Roysa]

Is the Missus pleased with your "in house" accuracy John?

Hey Daz,

I do my rlease drills on one knee in the lounge room, and my one step drills in the back yard with an old ball.

I do my push away drills any where I like.

It would be nice to say I can spare the single pins all the time, but I never miss the coffee table in the corner of the lounge room.

 

[Michael Little]

Gunna do a John Velo here and start up a Hopefully interesting thread.

I have always wondered, had i been coached as a younger bowler, would i be a better bowler now in my adult life, or would it have not made much difference.

The obvious answer is yes, but i feel i have good knowledge of the game, and equipment from mostly just keeping my eyes and ears open and trying too learn as much as i can.

As a 15-18 year old bowler i had a few of the more experienced guys throw a suggestion my way, but the only real "coaching" i've received if u would call it that, was a 30 minute session with a man by the name of Lindsay Coles. Many of you might know him, many might not, however, he showed me a line that would suit me, and suggested i slow my shot down a bit (14-15 year old me didnt see how that would help) and told me to bend my knee more at the line. Session over, and would occasionally hit his knee as a gesture to me to get down lower, if he saw me throwing games at the bowl while he was working there.

Then in 2009 early in the year i got some bowling balls drilled by Peter Zambelis. Before he even saw me bowl, told me "your a thumb bowler, i can tell just by looking at your hand" i was quite amazed, anyway after the drill he spent some time with me, atleast an hour. Trying to show me a nicer release, i'd imagine it would have been quite frustrating for him, never the less he gave his own time up to help me, and the year after aswell (i had relapsed into my old release, hand outside from the pushaway, no power or roll)

Lindsay got me shooting 160's from that advice, and after my session and great ball drill from Peter, i shot 201 average that whole year at Taree in league, which had NEVER been done for 1 year straight.

Now i feel, that i will never surpass my current abilities, and it seems the more i learn about proper technique, the more problems i find with my shot.

Setting a poll up and would love to hear opinions on the matter. Can somebody be a successful bowler without coaching or some form of a guiding hand.

I think unless you are extremely naturally gifted, with great coordination and so forth then everyone needs coaching at some stage and as Doust has said, the earlier the better. There are so many aspects of this game that a coach or other knowledgeable influences can provide to get a bowler to a higher skill level quicker that can't be discounted.

I know in my own personal bowling development, after the first couple of trips I had a lovely lady who worked at the bowl to help me with general basics and where to and how to bowl, I think without this I wouldn't have bothered to keep going on much more than a social level, I soon got help from more established coaches and Batesy the centre manager was always kind enough to give me tips here and there, I was soon getting my balls drills by people such as Andrew Drew and Zane Que, getting regular coaching tips from these guys, I was fortunate enough to start bowling adult tournaments at a young age which opened my eyes to a lot of other bowling related information and after one of my best mates started getting coached by Gail Torrens, I started not long after. For the majority of the end of my junior bowling and the start of my adult bowling, Gail helped me a great deal with developing my technique, looking at things from a biometric point of view, reading lanes, making adjustments etc. Mixing all the previous ball drilling help I had before combined with bits and pieces gained from everyone has helped mould me to this point.

Since moving interstate, I haven't had a regular coach for over 10 years, but have often sought advice from various people over the years, still chat to Gail every now and then, I was fortunate to get help from Sid Allen for many years, I often seek Pete Zambelis's help from time to time with little technique adjustments, discuss ball drilling before I drill new balls and am fortunate to have someone like him locally to help out, he just knows so much and is willing to give his time to help others. And nothing can also be discounted from getting help from the guys I travel regularly with to tournaments, we all help each other out at various times because having another set of eyes looking at something you don't always feel you are doing can make a huge difference.

I often believe that without guys who work in bowling centres like Pete or similar, that a lot of junior talent would have been lost a long time ago and believe that more centres need to employ knowledgeable people from within the industry to help foster and turn social interest into something better for the sport. I know I enjoy helping juniors and the like myself and always find myself talking to other guys in league discussing different things to help them with their game. Much like the guys that have provided me with little tidbits of info throughout the years, they don't know everything about the game but at some stage that info has proved useful to me.

 

[BigDaz]

Hey Daz,

I do my rlease drills on one knee in the lounge room, and my one step drills in the back yard with an old ball.

I do my push away drills any where I like.

It would be nice to say I can spare the single pins all the time, but I never miss the coffee table in the corner of the lounge room.

Haha i've been fortunate enough to not hit objects.

I previously did the one knee drills, i have also thrown against a lounge with my stand still release, and 1/2/3/4 step, and the problem is that i NAIL it on the lounge (Using a blue HAMMER Nail mind you), i video'd myself throwing great shots against the lounge BUT i cant for the life of me carry it over to the alley. Im not talking about 1 afternoon or a couple of minutes worth a day either. When my youngest was still sleeping 3 hours at lunchtime i was spending an hour a day doing it for 6 months. I could never translate that feel into swing and approach on the lanes.

Its very disheartening, and on the nationals pattern last weekend my feelings were pushed even further into oblivion. Was great to know where i stack up on the grand scheme of things, but saddening that i'll never be a "great" bowler.

 

[John_Velo]

Hey Daz,

I know and understand where you are at. Been there plenty of times and except that I am a league hack.

But seriously, don't be down on yourself. When I turned up for my squad, one of the organises told me to watch you and your line because you had the best look on the lanes for that squad.

And besides, do you think the top guys could ever lounge bowl as good as you do....! and people like to think they understand the house shot, PHFFFTTT.

 

[John_Velo]

Is the Missus pleased with your "in house" accuracy John?

Hey Roy,

Not really. But it is funny watching the dog trying to bring the ball back.......Over lane ball returns..

 

[BigDaz]

Hey Daz,

I know and understand where you are at. Been there plenty of times and except that I am a league hack.

But seriously, don't be down on yourself. When I turned up for my squad, one of the organises told me to watch you and your line because you had the best look on the lanes for that squad.

And besides, do you think the top guys could ever lounge bowl as good as you do....! and people like to think they understand the house shot, PHFFFTTT.

Haha made me laugh, yeh but i did have a good shot, just no execution. Both my go-to balls were drilled incorrect, span is too long so had alot of issues with that. Hopefully thats being rectified and ill be ready for my next event.

 

[jason_doust]

Hey Roy,

Not really. But it is funny watching the dog trying to bring the ball back.......Over lane ball returns..

Most house shots only lay carpet outside 10 board! You're doing better than me. My dogs would just run off with the ball if they could hold it! (Bloody Airedales! Too smart for their own good!)

I've discovered that flat pack, click-lock laminated timber flooring slides an awful lot like a bowling approach. Since then I have toyed with the idea that you can lay this stuff down on a concrete slab in about 5 minutes and if you got the bamboo stuff, that'd give you some pretty good narrow boards to check your drift etc. (Bamboo is also tough as nails and grows in 90-120 days, so good eco-wise too.) You can then pack it away when you're done. So you could do several drills like this in theory, either in the backyard or the shed, if you have the luxury of enough space.

It's strictly for refining technique, as you can't check ball speed and reaction etc. But probably quite workable for fundamentals.

 

[jason_doust]

I often believe that without guys who work in bowling centres like Pete or similar, that a lot of junior talent would have been lost a long time ago and believe that more centres need to employ knowledgeable people from within the industry to help foster and turn social interest into something better for the sport.

So very true Michael. How many players have we lost because of McManagers and staff just yanked in off the street..? Probably more than we have through ill-fitting balls and the resultant discomfort!