A Better President Shield…

[Woza]

Well I will give a couple of scenarios

Emerson Shield bowled in Victoria has a minimum game rule you must bowl 50% of the games.

Last years winners Melton 3 bowlers bowled 14 out of 14 and the other 4 bowlers bowled 7 games each? They satisfied the criteria but was it fair?

They have also introduced a draft this year and a vacancy score so that all teams must have 7 bowlers. If a team only has 6 bowlers then the vacancy score is the 7th and must bowl half the games. This is to stop teams "stacking sides" and only taking away 5 or 6 bowlers therefore eliminating the weaker bowlers by not even letting them compete

President Shield would be one of top competitions at which a junior can compete.
My view is that the strongest team should be put on the lanes. Yes they are juniors but they are representing their state at the highest level and they are their to win.

If a minimum game rule was to be introduced in President Shield
Then I ask the question would the states still take away 7 bowlers or would they only take away 5 maybe 6 bowlers and leave the weaker ones at home therefore denying them the opportunity to go to President Shield at all.
Now that would be a tragedy?

 

[da_cowman]

At the end of the day, We want Tenpin Bowling to be considered as a sport. Now, can anyone tell me of any other Sport where players are guaranteed a spot in the team? I can't think of one. Every other Sport, in every age bracket, plays the players that are in form and playing well. Why should we be any different?

Later Da Cowman!

 

[Andrew S.]

You want to do what the other sports do?
Then name a 5 person team and call the others reserves.

 

[da_cowman]

No, other sports name, for example in soccer, 18 players in the team. 11 players on the field, and 5 substitutes. Which, exactly is what Shield is. 5 bowlers with two subs that can be put on at the end of each game. No other sport guarantees players positions on the field. Why should Tenpin Bowling? The players in the team should be there based on their current form and ability to cope with the noise, pace and mental games of shield.

Later Da Cowman!

 

[01kay]

To Cowman,

A soccer player gets paid to warm a bench, bowlers do not, besides, comparing bowling and soccer is like comparing apples and oranges and I would rather not go down that path of conversation.

 

[willey]

1OKAY you may have something there, here's my proposal, why don't they bowl all 7 and use the best 5 either head to head or total score, problem solved. Most new scoring systems can carry 7 names.

I thought it was quite sad the way they change the line-up's, I seen good bowlers last year sit out while they were scoring, quite strange, all on the Coaches whim.

willey.

 

[Suzi]

This is somewhat from left field, as I am a senior. How many bowlers do each team put on the lanes? 3, 4 or 5?

In the seniors, we have 4 bowlers on the lanes, and 2 others, thus making the team 6 players. We bowl 21 games over 3 days, and each bowler MUST bowl at least 10 games over that period. There is no such thing a reserves, but FULL team members and each has earnt their place in the team at roll-offs. Our roll-offs are done over 1 long weekend, but there is nothing to say they cannot be done over 2 normal weekends.

I believe that the De Veer and Rauchuig have the same system, but have 7 bowlers (5 and 2).

How about making the same rules for ALL the representative teams from the Presidents Sheild right up to Rauchuig, then all bowlers know what is expected of them right from the beginning of their careers?

 

[Andrew S.]

Suzi the Shield De Veer and Rachuig teams field 5 out of the seven. By tradition in most States the lineups are selected by either the coach or the manager.
Form is a very easy word to use after the game has been bowled, but who is to know that the guy sitting on the bench wouldn't have shot a high game and won the point.
I like the Seniors system it at least gives each team member a fair shot and as you state, those team members have all earned the right to be in the team. Our present system merely leaves it up to a coach/manager to predict the form for the next game.
Sometimes they get it very wrong.

 

[Dozza]

As a mum who has spent heaps on sending her son away to bowl for the opportunity to represent his state I think I'd have to say leave Shield the way it is.
You try telling my son he wasn’t part of the winning state team when he sat on the bench for the most part. He’ll tell you he played his part in supporting his team 200%. He received the same payment as the rest of his team mates for sitting on the bench …. A FIRST PLACE MEDAL. Now that happened a couple of times because he wasn’t at his best on those days. In most team sports he understood that the objective was that the team wins at all costs.
But now I reach the part about him playing the majority of the games in his team events and if you were to tell me he had to sit on the bench to allow for the person that ‘wasn’t playing at their best’ to have a go well that’s not fair. Not fair to the team and not fair to the person that ‘wasn’t playing at their best’ knowing that they might bring the team down. Because everyone would want what’s best for the team.
If the minimum games rule was introduced then I guess that would have to be followed. I know Pres Shield is for kids but what are we teaching them about team sports. The Bowlers have their job as the Managers have theirs and everyone else falls under the banner of Supporter and the rules are as they are stated. You have a problem then stay home.
Just my very small opinion.
Dozza

 

[da_cowman]

To Cowman,

A soccer player gets paid to warm a bench, bowlers do not, besides, comparing bowling and soccer is like comparing apples and oranges and I would rather not go down that path of conversation.

Wrong again. At a junior level soccer players get paid the same amount we do. Nothing. If a soccer player wants to represent his State, and I know this because of a mate of mine went through it, they have to travel to where the selections are taking place. Play soccer over the period of time, pay for their own travel and accomodation, and then, if they make the team, they also must pay to get to wherever the national competition is being held. For their new uniform and any other accessories they might need. an Under 15 team from my local club went to Vanuatu. They had to pay for everything, travel, aoccodation. How did they get there? Every Saturday and Sunday while they werent playing every member went down to local ground and fundraised. They managed to get enough to make it very affordable for the 20 odd people going.
Comparing Soccer to Bowling is not like Apples and Oranges. In some aspects, like the physical conditioning, there are very different, and I'll admit that. But in essence they are both a sport. Both have a set of laws they each must follow. Both, especially considering this is all about Shield, are about a team event and that neither of them, at the moment, guarantees a player anything.
Shield is the biggest and best Junior competition in Australia! It's the junior version of Rachuig. There are no limitations in Rachiug, why should there be in Shield?

Later Da Cowman!

 

[01kay]

besides, comparing bowling and soccer is like comparing apples and oranges and I would rather not go down that path of conversation.

I was refering to soccer players at the peak of there sport, a professional soccer player gets paid by there club whether they play or not, a professional bowler only gets paid if they win and they can only win if they bowl.

One last time;

besides, comparing bowling and soccer is like comparing apples and oranges and I would rather not go down that path of conversation.

That includes the selection criteria.

 

[mannah]

I have experienced the ups and downs of state team bowling myself. The first year I was added to the team 10 days prior to competition. My average was the lowest of the team. I was a bench warmer until the last game on the first day. I felt very disillusioned as I did not understand why I wasn't even getting a chance to bowl even though the team was not performing all that well. I finally got my chance and won my point. The second day I bowled most games and thrived. By the fourth game on the third day I was getting tired and was benched needing one more game to qualify for team of the year. It was personally hard to accept but certainly best for the team. I supported the team, got to play the last game and made team of the year, medalled and came home totally exhausted/excited. My second year at the end of day 2, I had only bowled 4 games none of which were consecutive. Again disappointed but a lot more understanding that this is a team game and the team is most important.

Last year I had been bowling average when the 5 bowlers in the lineup fired together, winning games and moving rapidly up. I was told by the coach early on the last day that I would probably not be bowling for the rest of the tournament. Initially disappointed and a few tears shed, it finally dawned on me that I was part of the team, the team was winning points, my support was helping the team so I stopped focussing on myself and got totally behind supporting my team mates. We ended up medalling - I was part of that team, I wear my medal proudly, my teammates do not consider I was a lesser member of the team because I was not bowling.

After this I seriously considered whether the costs = benefits. But the decision was easy. I thoroughly enjoyed (well most of the time) the thrill of state team bowling, I have medals that MY TEAM have worn, I look forward to competing against interstate teams and the comradeship of my teammates.

These experiences help us grow both individually and in team environments. On many occasions in life decisions are made for the betterment of the team/group and may not be your personal choice but you must learn to accept these decisions. This is team bowling not 5 or 7 individuals bowling together. You have ups and downs.

The choice is yours to focus on the negative or positives. Keep positive and you will achieve success.

 

[da_cowman]

I was refering to soccer players at the peak of there sport, a professional soccer player gets paid by there club whether they play or not, a professional bowler only gets paid if they win and they can only win if they bowl.

Well thats silly isn't it? You make a topic about JUNIORS, and now your argument is based on what the ADULT PROFESSIONALS are doing. I was using Soccer as a comparision at the same age group and level of competition that we are at. I don't think its at all relavant what happens on the PBA, or in the top European, South American, African or Asian Soccer clubs. That's not the level of competition that we are talking about. The level of competition that directly involves us is Juniors, Under 18's. Not Pros or Under 6's or bumper bowling. Therefore it's irrelavant that Professional Soccer players get paid $100,000 to sit on the bench. What is relavant, however, is that the kids that are our age playing for their state still have to pay for the honour, and if they aren't quite good enough or not performing, then they don't get played. Same as at Shield.

Later Da Cowman!

 

[01kay]

To Cowman,

Drop the soccer, you where the one that brought it up and I'm sick of talking about something thats off topic, like I said;

besides, comparing bowling and soccer is like comparing apples and oranges and I would rather not go down that path of conversation.

 

[James]

ok well here is my two cents and this is morealess a shot at both shield and youth trials


notice how with shield it sez "under 18 by January 1st 2006" (using next year's as an example, and youth it sez "over 18 by Jan 1st 2005", well thats all fair and well but.... WHAT IF YOUR BDAY FALLS RIGHT ON the 30th of december 2005??? like me when I turn 18 does that mean I am ineligible for both or does that mean I can have a crack at one of them???


Thats my b!Tch for the day

 

[Luke D]

James,

You'll find that where it says "1st January 2005" it is meant to say "1st January 2006". It is just a typo on the nomination form.

Because if it wasn't a typo then that would mean that at least 5 bowlers that I know of WON'T be able to try out for Youth this year. The more people that try out, the better it is. Last year we had 6 guys try out with 4 making the team. Personally I don't see it as a good thing where over half the bowlers are gonna pick up a spot.

I have the updated form at work which I'm pretty sure amends the typo.

Nominations do close on Friday 29th.

 

[James]

cheers for clearing that up for me Luke.

 

[Ice]

If a rule of a set minimum number of games was introduced what would happen when a player fell ill, was injured or was having such a shocker they didn't desire to bowl?

 

[01kay]

Well a rule can be bent, if I player was Ill or Injuied then obviously they wouldn't need to bowl but as for the shocker of a game they can always be taken off and bowl later when they have a better mind set, just because a bowler has a bad game doesn't mean they're always gonna bowl bad, they may bowl a 120 have a break for a couple of games then come back and shot a 230.

 

[Luke D]

Shield (or any other tournament) should always be about fielding your strongest 5 at any one time. If you bring in a rule where bowlers must bowl a minimum amount of games - especially if they're not performing well and playing them could be detrimental to the teams hopes of winning - then you might as well get rid of the gold silver and bronze medals and just give everyone a medal for participating.

If you're one of the bowlers that only end up getting a few games then you should be cheering and supporting your teammates. Then when the trip is over, train your heart out to try and perform at the higher rate, to give yourself a better opportunity to stay off the bench for as long as you can.

The current format for Shield is fine... why fix something that isn't broken???