A better deal for our Rachuig bowlers
- Thread starter Andrew S.
- Start date
Ice
Member
PLEASE....I'd hardly call 8hrs drive EACH way close! Try driving 8hrs after a long week at work, bowling, then 8hrs drive home.. sometimes not arriving home until midnight Sunday and then fronting up for work Monday morning.
For your information we have one ranked event here, one 8 hrs drive and the others are four to five hours drive away.
I dont know the cost involved in other states but here the $700 - $800 for the compulsory training sessions, practice sessions, Rachuig trials, State Championships, State Masters & a couple of compulsory tournaments. The $1,200 - $1,400 for airfares, accomodation, national events, uniforms, diner tickets, linage costs etc. The $700- $800 for a couple new balls if you need new equipment & the $1,000 in lost wages while your away if your employed on a casual basis. $3,500 - $4,000 bucks is a lot of money for a 9 day trip.
Unfortunately, some of the most talented bowlers are not always the most financial & cannot afford the costs invovled. The 80's & early 90's where great when you made the State Team & all the expenses where covered & you even got a bit of spending money from the State Association.
I think if your looking at Sponsorship, you should be approaching the Bowling Centres. All these centres put there game rates every year. Get every centre to throw there game rate up an extra 5 cents a game. Even if you only got back a 2 cent kickback per game for every game bowled in each centre for the year out of the 5 cents and the centre kept the rest your talking enough money to split between all states to cover most of the costs for your Rachuig, De Veer, Shield & Seniors teams every year.
You'll probably get the centres complaining why should they be putting money into sending these teams. There not, It's a user pays scheme, it's the people using there facility that are sending these teams away and the centres are making a few extra dollars on the side
Unfortunately, some of the most talented bowlers are not always the most financial & cannot afford the costs invovled. The 80's & early 90's where great when you made the State Team & all the expenses where covered & you even got a bit of spending money from the State Association.
I think if your looking at Sponsorship, you should be approaching the Bowling Centres. All these centres put there game rates every year. Get every centre to throw there game rate up an extra 5 cents a game. Even if you only got back a 2 cent kickback per game for every game bowled in each centre for the year out of the 5 cents and the centre kept the rest your talking enough money to split between all states to cover most of the costs for your Rachuig, De Veer, Shield & Seniors teams every year.
You'll probably get the centres complaining why should they be putting money into sending these teams. There not, It's a user pays scheme, it's the people using there facility that are sending these teams away and the centres are making a few extra dollars on the side
D
dogwashman
I may be wrong here but I believe there are a couple of issues here on the table. They are costs, selection process and honour of representing your state.
In relation to Cost
In relation to cost. Each bowler has the cost of trials, cost of attending the championships, (please correct me if I'm wrong) both state and nationals championships and then the rachuig itself, travel, personal training etc etc, and in return their is no return to the bowler. Personally myself I cant think of a greater honour than to represent my state however I'm not in a financial position to cover the cost.
In relation to Selection process
I've always believe the current selection process has an undermining effect whether it is for the local association or state team, especially when it encourage selecting a team by rolloff over a couple of days consisting of around 20 games or what ever it is. I would have thought that we would want the cream of the ellite bowlers representing the state and not the first 5 bowlers and 2 selected past the post.
Honour
I can see why the honour is as not strong as it use to be to represent your state when the selection process doesn't allow for the cream to rise to the top. Therefore our elite bowlers may say why bother when all it takes is to have a either a bad day or a few bad games. Lets face it the elite bowlers are human too.
I feel we should encourage what the current nomination form ask for. These nominations are open to all tba bowlers and not all tba bowlers would can afford to represent their state.
Something to think about that may resolving these issues.
Is to have league competition where centres or assocations would complete against each another centre or association in that zones (may be smaller that the rachuig zone)in a 5 person team format. Each Centre or association would compete against another centre or assoicaton twice by having a home and away match. All matches would be held on the same day at the different centres so that all teams are completing on the same day.The selection of the team would vary match to match as the bowlers would have to qualify either in league or outside of league and the top 5 bowlers would represent the centre or assoication for the up coming match only and would qualify again for the next match. There would be a qualifying fee for each attempt which could be put towards the state team. To make things a bit interesting there would a be social fee charged for each player representing the centre or assoication for each match they compete in(as we all do each week in league) where maybe 2/3rd is paid to the winning team for the day and 1/3rd is put towards the state team. At the end of the season an all stars team would be selected by the top 7 bowlers from all the zones with in the rachuig zone.
I beleive this would addess these issues as state team has raised money, therefore reducing the cost for each bowler of the all stars team and I believe honour would be restored knowing that each memeber of the all star team had to work to make the team. I feel we would have cream of elite bowlers representing the state, it would be affordable for all tba bowlers who have the desire to represent their state and it would reward bowlers who haven't made the team as long as they are on a winning team for that round they played in.
Please excuse me for typing errors etc as it is 2am.
Steve Bcikerton Gold Coast
In relation to Cost
In relation to cost. Each bowler has the cost of trials, cost of attending the championships, (please correct me if I'm wrong) both state and nationals championships and then the rachuig itself, travel, personal training etc etc, and in return their is no return to the bowler. Personally myself I cant think of a greater honour than to represent my state however I'm not in a financial position to cover the cost.
In relation to Selection process
I've always believe the current selection process has an undermining effect whether it is for the local association or state team, especially when it encourage selecting a team by rolloff over a couple of days consisting of around 20 games or what ever it is. I would have thought that we would want the cream of the ellite bowlers representing the state and not the first 5 bowlers and 2 selected past the post.
Honour
I can see why the honour is as not strong as it use to be to represent your state when the selection process doesn't allow for the cream to rise to the top. Therefore our elite bowlers may say why bother when all it takes is to have a either a bad day or a few bad games. Lets face it the elite bowlers are human too.
I feel we should encourage what the current nomination form ask for. These nominations are open to all tba bowlers and not all tba bowlers would can afford to represent their state.
Something to think about that may resolving these issues.
Is to have league competition where centres or assocations would complete against each another centre or association in that zones (may be smaller that the rachuig zone)in a 5 person team format. Each Centre or association would compete against another centre or assoicaton twice by having a home and away match. All matches would be held on the same day at the different centres so that all teams are completing on the same day.The selection of the team would vary match to match as the bowlers would have to qualify either in league or outside of league and the top 5 bowlers would represent the centre or assoication for the up coming match only and would qualify again for the next match. There would be a qualifying fee for each attempt which could be put towards the state team. To make things a bit interesting there would a be social fee charged for each player representing the centre or assoication for each match they compete in(as we all do each week in league) where maybe 2/3rd is paid to the winning team for the day and 1/3rd is put towards the state team. At the end of the season an all stars team would be selected by the top 7 bowlers from all the zones with in the rachuig zone.
I beleive this would addess these issues as state team has raised money, therefore reducing the cost for each bowler of the all stars team and I believe honour would be restored knowing that each memeber of the all star team had to work to make the team. I feel we would have cream of elite bowlers representing the state, it would be affordable for all tba bowlers who have the desire to represent their state and it would reward bowlers who haven't made the team as long as they are on a winning team for that round they played in.
Please excuse me for typing errors etc as it is 2am.
Steve Bcikerton Gold Coast
I could'nt agree more Steve, there is no bigger honour than representing your state, except Australia.
I've been bowling Rachuig for 20 years and have found the the fairest selection criteria is the first 7 past the post. Everybody pays the same money to bowl the trials, they should have the same chance as everybody else to make there respective State Teams without any outside influences like selectors who have never represented there state at anything, or you dont get selected because selectors take personal relationships into account.
If your 1 of these so called elite bowlers and you cant handle the pressure in the trials & throw a few bad games what good are you going to be when the pressure is really on in November.
I have also seen over the years the cream of Australian bowling only bowl Rachuig because its a requirement to be selected for the National Team. Honour did'nt come into it.
I've been bowling Rachuig for 20 years and have found the the fairest selection criteria is the first 7 past the post. Everybody pays the same money to bowl the trials, they should have the same chance as everybody else to make there respective State Teams without any outside influences like selectors who have never represented there state at anything, or you dont get selected because selectors take personal relationships into account.
If your 1 of these so called elite bowlers and you cant handle the pressure in the trials & throw a few bad games what good are you going to be when the pressure is really on in November.
I have also seen over the years the cream of Australian bowling only bowl Rachuig because its a requirement to be selected for the National Team. Honour did'nt come into it.
D
dogwashman
thanks for your reply chin.
Sorry if I gave the wrong impression about the All stars top 7 for the rachuig zone being selected. The point I meant to get across is the All stars (which would be the state team) would consist of the highest 7 averages (lets say they have to bowl 2/3 of the season) across all the zone within the boundry for the rachuig boundry.
I agree with you selection is not the way to go either but at the moment there is nothing else out there than a rolloff may be we need to look at someting else.
Steve Bickerton
Sorry if I gave the wrong impression about the All stars top 7 for the rachuig zone being selected. The point I meant to get across is the All stars (which would be the state team) would consist of the highest 7 averages (lets say they have to bowl 2/3 of the season) across all the zone within the boundry for the rachuig boundry.
I agree with you selection is not the way to go either but at the moment there is nothing else out there than a rolloff may be we need to look at someting else.
Steve Bickerton
My Two Cents...
FYI - I have bowled RAUCHIG - however not since learning how to bowl properly!
I have watched several RAUCHIG roll-off's in different states over the past 5 years - oddly enough there have been stronger teams sitting on the side-lines watching than there were participating.
WHY? - Because RAUCHIG cost you time and money - add to which some teams are treated like children - not being allowed to organise their own travel or own social outings while away. Hell - the OLYMPIC games gave out free condoms - all I see bwoling teams getting is curfews and bills...
Add to that the fact that if you actually win, there is no monetory reward.
"SO IT'S ALL ABOUT THE MONEY EH.." I hear some skeptics saying - to that I would answer absolutely not - BUT - if you have a bowling budge of $5,000 for the year, you can either bowl in RAUCHIG - or for the same amout of money you can bowl in two overseas tournaments, four of five interstate tournaments or up to a dozen tournaments in your own state... If you are after experience or promoting yourself for a potential sponsorship - or just plain out to try to break even in this expensive sport - RAUCHIG is way down on the list of tournaments that will get you there.
When I was a junior growing up and bowling - RAUCHIG had some prestige - TV shows and magazine covers showed who was bowling well at a state and national level... If you want that sort of status today, you get it outside of RAUCHIG - in bowling singles tournaments around Australia - Asia and the rest of the world.
Still many good (great) bowlers chose to support RAUCHIG - and to those of you who are reading this post now - i don't say that the competition isn't good - but there are certainly several top quality bowlers who abstain from representative bowling because of the three issues I have raised (cost/ promotion/ team management).
So - what is the answer?
In my opinion, it is exactly what has been discussed in this thread so far. Increased incentives. Put some decent prize money into the Australian Championships - Australian Masters. Get some TV coverage of RAUCHIG. Hmmm - this costs money? Who pays? That's another issue completely - my guess would be whoever is going to benefit from it???
Good luck and hope this forum identifies a way to bring RAUCHIG (and Walter De Veer / Presidents Shield) to the forefront of Australian Bowling.
Oh yeah - having the other members of the team you bowl in can you behind your back isn't much of an incentive either (but like rumors- i'm sure that doesn't happen in bowling!).
FYI - I have bowled RAUCHIG - however not since learning how to bowl properly!
I have watched several RAUCHIG roll-off's in different states over the past 5 years - oddly enough there have been stronger teams sitting on the side-lines watching than there were participating.
WHY? - Because RAUCHIG cost you time and money - add to which some teams are treated like children - not being allowed to organise their own travel or own social outings while away. Hell - the OLYMPIC games gave out free condoms - all I see bwoling teams getting is curfews and bills...
Add to that the fact that if you actually win, there is no monetory reward.
"SO IT'S ALL ABOUT THE MONEY EH.." I hear some skeptics saying - to that I would answer absolutely not - BUT - if you have a bowling budge of $5,000 for the year, you can either bowl in RAUCHIG - or for the same amout of money you can bowl in two overseas tournaments, four of five interstate tournaments or up to a dozen tournaments in your own state... If you are after experience or promoting yourself for a potential sponsorship - or just plain out to try to break even in this expensive sport - RAUCHIG is way down on the list of tournaments that will get you there.
When I was a junior growing up and bowling - RAUCHIG had some prestige - TV shows and magazine covers showed who was bowling well at a state and national level... If you want that sort of status today, you get it outside of RAUCHIG - in bowling singles tournaments around Australia - Asia and the rest of the world.
Still many good (great) bowlers chose to support RAUCHIG - and to those of you who are reading this post now - i don't say that the competition isn't good - but there are certainly several top quality bowlers who abstain from representative bowling because of the three issues I have raised (cost/ promotion/ team management).
So - what is the answer?
In my opinion, it is exactly what has been discussed in this thread so far. Increased incentives. Put some decent prize money into the Australian Championships - Australian Masters. Get some TV coverage of RAUCHIG. Hmmm - this costs money? Who pays? That's another issue completely - my guess would be whoever is going to benefit from it???
Good luck and hope this forum identifies a way to bring RAUCHIG (and Walter De Veer / Presidents Shield) to the forefront of Australian Bowling.
Oh yeah - having the other members of the team you bowl in can you behind your back isn't much of an incentive either (but like rumors- i'm sure that doesn't happen in bowling!).
strop
Elite Athlete
Go CHIN CHIN, didn't think you had it in ya!.
Totally agree with ya!
Currently you talk about bowling for the pride of your state.! Sure I like you robby have that wonderful rusted medal we won when SA won the Rachuig last 1988 wasn't it!!!
The feeling was great wasn't it! We certainly did it for ourselves as well ,definitely not for our glorious state comittee's we have had over the years.
And still have. But they do a good job don't they.!!!! Just because they have never done it for themselves at that level, doesn't mean a thing .........Does it.
We pay so much money to bowl these days and they still want to dictate what we do..........no doubt about it hey!!!!
Go S.A. of the past ........lets hope it will improve........hasn't in 30 years, I'm trying to work out the pattern......might be every 100 years.
cheers roby. good to see the comment's. See you in Seniors next year. Oh so much fun!
tony
Totally agree with ya!
Currently you talk about bowling for the pride of your state.! Sure I like you robby have that wonderful rusted medal we won when SA won the Rachuig last 1988 wasn't it!!!
The feeling was great wasn't it! We certainly did it for ourselves as well ,definitely not for our glorious state comittee's we have had over the years.
And still have. But they do a good job don't they.!!!! Just because they have never done it for themselves at that level, doesn't mean a thing .........Does it.
We pay so much money to bowl these days and they still want to dictate what we do..........no doubt about it hey!!!!
Go S.A. of the past ........lets hope it will improve........hasn't in 30 years, I'm trying to work out the pattern......might be every 100 years.
cheers roby. good to see the comment's. See you in Seniors next year. Oh so much fun!
tony
Andrew S.
Gold Coast
FWIW in Qld at least, we are trying to listen to our Rachuig contenders and give them more consideration and more choices. We made a start this year and although we've made a few mistakes along the way I do feel that we have a much better relationship with our Rachuig Bowlers.
I agree with some of Boy Brownys comments although the TBAQ committee is still a little divided regarding the issue of condoms to team members as there is nothing in the tournament rules regarding the use of this equipment.
I agree with some of Boy Brownys comments although the TBAQ committee is still a little divided regarding the issue of condoms to team members as there is nothing in the tournament rules regarding the use of this equipment.
Having just come back to bowling Rachuig this year after several years off, I am surprised at the lack of interest in Australia's premier teams event. I can remember comments made back in the late eighties by an American pro that had just witnessed his first Rachuig that was along the lines of " this would have to be the best teams event in the world, no where has he seen such passion and enthusiasm in a teams competition."
From what I can see, money seems to be the biggest reason why we dont get the bowlers turning up. I know from personal experiance this year that it will set me back somewhere between $2500 and $3000 for the oportunity to represent my state. Going back to the late eighties and early ninties, we were upset if we had to pay anything at all, even having spending money available on the odd year.
Has TBA, being our governing body, approached any major corporations about seeking out sponsorship for this event. How about selling the naming rights. Instead of Rachuig, which has no or little significance to most of the public or press, what about the Crazy Johns Cup, the Telstra Teams Classic or the Pura Milk Masters. If the Sheffield Sheild can change their name after 100 years of tradition i am sure we could change ours after 40 years.
As much as it would be nice to have a monetary prize for the winning teams i would think that most bowlers would jump at the chance to bowl for their state if it was fully paid for.
Anyway just my thoughts
Jim
From what I can see, money seems to be the biggest reason why we dont get the bowlers turning up. I know from personal experiance this year that it will set me back somewhere between $2500 and $3000 for the oportunity to represent my state. Going back to the late eighties and early ninties, we were upset if we had to pay anything at all, even having spending money available on the odd year.
Has TBA, being our governing body, approached any major corporations about seeking out sponsorship for this event. How about selling the naming rights. Instead of Rachuig, which has no or little significance to most of the public or press, what about the Crazy Johns Cup, the Telstra Teams Classic or the Pura Milk Masters. If the Sheffield Sheild can change their name after 100 years of tradition i am sure we could change ours after 40 years.
As much as it would be nice to have a monetary prize for the winning teams i would think that most bowlers would jump at the chance to bowl for their state if it was fully paid for.
Anyway just my thoughts
Jim
