Here we go again Seniors at Townsville.

[willey]

I'm not even Bowling at the moment but I can tell you what the problem facing the Seniors is " NO BALLS ".

How can part time Bowlers be expected to go to a Tournament hundreds or thousands of Kilometers away and have an Arsenal of Balls just so they can Compete on an equal footing, as Geoff Toovey would say it's just Rediculous.

A lot of Seniors are very good Bowlers but I've been to Nationals and you cannot get a lane to practise on, just to see what works, I remember Bowling in Melbourne one year and I did get to practise about 10.30 at night and I found I didn't have a Ball that suited the Dry conditions I had to Drill up a New Ball the night before the Australian Masters.

And for those advocating Tricking up the Lanes, that has to be my Pet Hate, what suits some Bowlers does not suit others, I haven't Seen Doreen Bowl since the 80's but I sure she has slowed down some since then.

willey

 

[Mistagear]

The issues being discussed here is only a small part of a much bigger problem.
I've recently been researching Psychology Papers in relation to "Essence of Sport", specifically to determine why,
Bowling has so many advantages over all other sports, yet fails to attract the number of competitors commensurate to these advantages. and
How to adapt the sport of Bowling into a modern competitive version to arrest the evident decline and possible demise of the sport.
Long story short..
It appears multiple sensory rewards are the basis of satisfaction/attraction for participants. (sight/sound/touch/effort etc)
Compared to other sports, Bowling (IN IT'S CURRENT FORM) offers limited rewards in some categories and zero in others.
Basically, this contributes to the comments by some that "bowling is not a real sport".
How this relates to this thread, because bowling competitors are relying on less stimuli, when the satisfaction felt by achieving a certain level of competence (bowling their average) they are far less likely to be satisfied.
Talk of changing oiling patterns easier or harder, will upset as many bowlers as it impresses. It's akin to moving the deckchairs on the Titanic.
As this statement by Jase suggests

Its time to build a product that can be sold outside of the bowling industry just cause you done it one way for 50 years it don't mean its correct and changes you make tomorrow may not work in a years time but if you are smart you will have new ideas ready to go.

Unfortunately, it is not possible for this forum to effect the sort of change, which will be necessary to save the sport. However I do think it can be fixed

 

[Geoff300]

When you spend hundreds of dollars to travel and pay fees to bowl entering with a 200 average then you qualify with a 160 average that is unfair.

Learn to spare and it is impossible to ave 160

 

[Geoff300]

What am I missing?

If the 200avg house shot bowlers avg is 175 at Townsville and the 180avg house shot bowlers avg is 160 at Townsville aren't the top bowlers still cutting?

Stop making sense it is too difficult for some to understand

 

[Geoff300]

Two bowlers who have a 200 average Barb Richmond scored 158.5 and Steve Bell 173.9 are you saying their average is masked by deficiences.

Dockers

the simple answer is that Bowling today is very different from the old days, sorry it just is !!!

 

[strop]

the simple answer is that Bowling today is very different from the old days, sorry it just is !!!

Yes Geoff300, your right.
It is different, it's still heading downhill faster than ever. Too much B**LS**T, too much emphasis and the top few wanting non easier conditions...........
I'm glad I enjoyed the 70's,80's and early 90's when bowling was at it's peak.......

Dockers may come across a bit full on, but is allowed her own opinion....like all of us....but I still respect her as a bowler in her own time, like many from that time, the game didn't owe them unlike some of the players today
thinking the game owes them so much already....................

The Seniors are the biggest and the best bunch of bowlers in there own rights.

Reactive's killed the game, and so will lane condtions.......keep it up....all that will be left is that 6 %.......

Cheers

Tony

 

[CT]

So what you're saying Tony is that bowling is heading down hill and that a majority want to bowl on a ditch. Yet you talk of the glory days when 200 was a top average. Making the lanes too easy is what had killed competitive bowling. Bowlers have an unrealistic vision in their mind of how good they are and are too proud to admit their faults.
Reactive balls didn't ruin bowling. If they didn't have reactives there would still be super cores and with less oil on the lanes the scores wouldn't be any different.
You'll never get back to the 'good old days', face it and move on, come up with some constructive ideas and help bowling move forward.

 

[Roysa]

Hi Tony

Can you expand on the comment below?

the game didn't owe them unlike some of the players today
thinking the game owes them so much already

 

[Roysa]

Stop making sense it is too difficult for some to understand

Sorry Geoff.... I'm out of line... Again.

 

[strop]

CT,

So what you're saying Tony is that bowling is heading down hill and that a majority want to bowl on a ditch.

Bowling is heading down hill........Good lord......please tell me you cant see this? And majority want to bowl on a ditch.....read my post cant quite see where I wrote that...

Yet you talk of the glory days when 200 was a top average

Yep cant see where I wrote that too......are you reading into this or what?

Making the lanes too easy is what had killed competitive bowling.

Not sure if I agree with you on this, plus you be surprised on how many cant bowl on a ditch?

Reactive balls didn't ruin bowling

No just made some ordinary bowlers look good?

You'll never get back to the 'good old days', face it and move on,

No your right the good old days are gone....leaving this what we got today...Fantastic right.....and yes I have moved on...to Seniors cause I'm old enough to know what was and a bit of what is....no comparison..

And no Roysa not really going to elaborate much more, just a person feeling or observation I got when bowling some of the adult tournaments late in my life, but I will admit if I'm wrong.

Cheers

 

[Roysa]

Big back peddle there if we are being fair dinkum. The quote was pretty specific minus names. Didn't seem to be a "feeling" but ok then.

 

[strop]

it only a hand full I'm sure.....most are good people....

 

[Morty]

Dockers,

Before quoting any averages perhaps you should look at the stats from the bowlers.. Some players left open over 20 frames in 6 games!! Some players averages almost 2 single pin misses a game. Yes the pattern is tough.. yes it is not what everyone is used to bowling on but if you can make spares on even the toughest of patterns then you are not going to medal.. Today everyone bowled better.. Why, because the pattern changed No. But because more players got in the right part of the lane and it started to break down in a much more manageable way. I expect that the scores will go up further tomorrow as players again start to all move to the correct area that the lane is dictating that you play..

Morty

 

[willey]

The unfortunate thing is you do not need a Ditch to Score.

I go back a while so I have seen some great scoring over the years, it's fantastic to watch. I remember the SPC was brought back to Bankstown in 1987. It started from the Preview Tournament, Barbara Richmond Bowls a 300, the first in the history of SPC finals, Day One of the Final and Silvano Prez shoots 248/8, there were Scores on both sides of the Lanes, Peang from the Phillipines was in the Final, the Tournament was eventually Won by Chris Batson.

I learned a lot from that Tournament, their was no Ditch, we had Short Oil 28 feet but not the American Short Oil, which had no Oil outside 10 board, we had Oil on every Board. The thing that I could do was put down a very good Blend, the Key to high Scores is the very clean Back-Ends. We had that on Day One but not for the remainder of the Tournament, so the Scoring declined but still very good Bowling was done.

The next year of the SPC was even better as the clean Back-Ends were there everyday.

I seen one of the Finals on TV at Rooty Hill, I was amazed that some of the best American Woman bowling in the Final could not keep the Ball on the Pocket side of the Lane, they were hitting Brooklyn, Ridiculous.

These are just my observations, here's another one, Easy Scoring conditions have Ruined the Game so nobody Bowls anymore, again Ridiculous! What has caused the decline in Bowling is the Prices of Games, I got out of working in Bowling Centre's after 38 years because I seen the writing on the Wall, all caused by the massive Prices. I used to observe open bowlers with their Families walk into the Centre and ask for 2 games each for the 2 Adults and 2 Children, the Control Attendant would than say that will be $80 Thank you, the common reply was we will only have 1 game each thanks. Nobody expects to pay more than $5 per game, I remember being on Holidays in Qld in 1997, I took my Son to Harvey Bay and they wanted $5 a game I walked out it was dearer than anywhere else in Australia. The worst period for price increases was when the GST was introduced, I think in 2000, what AMF did was their usual increase at Christmas 1999, than increased it again before the GST was intrduced mid 2000 because they thought they would not be able to increase for a while, than again in Christmas 2000, 4 increases in 1 year, Ridiculous!

The usual people will come out and say" It costs so much to run a Bowling Centre" that it does but most expensive thing in a Bowling Centre is an Empty Bowling Lane.

willey

 

[CHIN]

I was in the USA in August and walked into several bowling centres in LA and had a few games.
Bowled 50 games in 8 days. Cost me a total of $46.00.
What surprised me the most at those prices was that the centres were only 10-20% full at any time.
Private centres with games at $1 each. Walked into an AMF centre and asked how much a game and was told $5.45 a game.......Ahhhh, thought I was home again...turned around and walked out.

Looked at a few PBA regional tournament results from last weekend.

Illinois 36 bowlers
Florida 28 bowlers
Kansas 24 bowlers

And we think we got it bad

 

[dockers]

Dockers,

Before quoting any averages perhaps you should look at the stats from the bowlers.. Some players left open over 20 frames in 6 games!! Some players averages almost 2 single pin misses a game. Yes the pattern is tough.. yes it is not what everyone is used to bowling on but if you can make spares on even the toughest of patterns then you are not going to medal.. Today everyone bowled better.. Why, because the pattern changed No. But because more players got in the right part of the lane and it started to break down in a much more manageable way. I expect that the scores will go up further tomorrow as players again start to all move to the correct area that the lane is dictating that you play..

Morty

All those making excuses should look at the Seniors Teams 3 game scores and realise there is something wrong. Definately no improvement today and the scores have not gone UP. Dockers the S??? Stirrer.

 

[amagill]

How many of the seniors are throwing 180 grit orbs up 10, or up 15????

Last few times I bowled nationals at Rooty Hill, I crossed with a lot of seniors & the above is what I saw and had to contend with on my pair.

All PBA, WTBA, and sport shots are designed to make you play a certain parts of the lane. If you don't play the lanes correctly, you will not score well.

 

[Michael Little]

All those making excuses should look at the Seniors Teams 3 game scores and realise there is something wrong. Definately no improvement today and the scores have not gone UP. Dockers the S??? Stirrer.

Nobody ever said the lane pattern wasn't tough, see above as I believe it should be modified for seniors, but stats are stats, so if Morty and anyone else can see that on average some players are missing 3-4 spares a game and some are missing 2 single pins a game, at a minimum of 20 pins extra for those spares, would that not take their current averages of around the 170-190 mark well above and back into less whinge worthy scores? Seems to be a similar epidemic to the current crop of juniors, just plain can't spare. Having a quick look, most players are averaging around 3-4 strikes a game, so it would seem the rest of their game is letting them down.

And to be honest, a teams event is going to be lower scoring, more wear on lanes, requires a different type of focus etc.

 

[Troyza]

lol what...

Don't seniors generally complain about how easy todays sport is, compared to the golden days?

Some really valid points have been bought up - I especially agree with the multiple condition theory, though it is harder than it sounds to put into effect - patterns need time to settle, & lane machines need time to burn out old patterns. (oil retention within buffer brushes can cause all sorts of weird issues when going from a pattern with more volume on the edges to less volume)

Alternatively, seniors nationals can be held in a different centre.



I've always been taught to fix the cause, not the problem.

The problem is the attitude of todays bowler - with inflated ego's, these bowlers go away & then reality sets in, they get the shits, & then quit.

The cause is blocked conditions. This is what needs to be fixed, but it's not as easy as laying down a fairer condition now. That's too late for most centres. Sadly, one thing proprietors fail to realise until it's too late (& most of us here already understand this), is that blocked conditions allow todays reactive resin to destroy lane surfaces. This really inhibits where oil can be placed on the lane - all of a sudden, a blended pattern is no longer viable because the damaged part of the lane can no longer hold oil, creating a massive dead zone which can act like a reverse block & make it even harder. Therefore, centres are forced to continually block their lanes to keep scoring pace. It's a very expensive, slippery slope. Scores shouldn't attract league customers, another motivator needs to be used.

 

[CHIN]

Scores shouldn't attract league customers, another motivator needs to be used.

ALCOHOL