What do people think about Females getting handicaps in events?

Should Females be given pinfall handicap in Open Scratch Tournaments??

  • Yes

    Votes: 22 17.5%
  • No

    Votes: 76 60.3%
  • Doesn't bother me

    Votes: 28 22.2%

  • Total voters
    126
if ur saying if a feale is averaging under 200 they should get a handicap well wat if a guy is averaging under 200 they hsould get a handicap or how many pin's use r trying to give these females iam against it cause in the end they arnt trying to betta themselves with a handicap lots of practice will let them improve there games those who want a handicap are just tryin to get a easy ticket to higher ranking numbers in tournament
(nothing to offend anyone)
 
Here's something I found interesting, from the TBA rankings policy.. I've put the important subclause in bold.

4.0 To be Ranked:
4.1 Accreditation Application and full Fees must be received in the TBA Office by 30th October in the current year, unless late submission has been approved by the CEO.
4.2 Entries in a Seniors event must be open ONLY to Senior bowlers.
4.3 A draft entry form must be received by TBA at least three calendar months before the event date.
4.4 Free or bonus pins must not be awarded to female bowlers simply because of gender.
4.5 A matchplay final must be made up of the top qualifiers. Female bowlers must not be elevated up a qualifying order to be included in a matchplay final.

This is the main reason I don't like the idea of free pins, but it seems this rule is often circumvented anyhoo..

makes you think though doesn't it?
 
We pay the same entry fee, we bowl on the same conditions, we get the same prize fund .... we should have the same start.

In theory men should be able to bowl in female events and get a handicap of -8?????? which is just wrong.

Just my oppinion.
 
actually I agree with craigy, it's not like we have "Men only" events...

I agree, If women want a start in open events, they should let men into women's events and give us a -8 start....
 
I wonder why it is, that in the VAST majority of other sports, women do not compete against the men?

Could it possibly be because it's not always a fair competition?

At least 3 cents worth ..

JM [-X
 
Addicted said:
I wonder why it is, that in the VAST majority of other sports, women do not compete against the men?
Could it possibly be because it's not always a fair competition?
At least 3 cents worth ..
JM [-X
Probably because a vast majority of sports "take advantage” from a larger difference in body/muscle mass.
Whereas bowling really does not have much advantage whether your built like a brick ****house or not! As long as you can throw a 15/16lbs ball, that is.

Take my 5' 9" scrawny butt for example I don't fancy myself playing rugby league/union at the "elite" level against males (or females), and I am male. Not because I think that I can’t play but because if I had to tackle the likes of Webke I’d probably **** myself and cower in the change room for the next 79 and a half minutes.

However (getting back to my point) if you have an "average" male and "average" female and play in the same game of rugby, there would be a "slight" disadvantage for the female side (due to body/muscle mass difference).
However take those same two "average" people and have them play tenpin and the difference would be negligible (to non-existent).

With other sports that are similar to tenpin, in terms of advantage/disadvantage due to body mass, unfortunately it just comes down to old fashioned discrimination (like darts/pool). It was not "Kosher" a few decades back for men and women to play a vast majority of sports (whether physical ability came into it or not!)

In my opinion it is about time we get rid of these discriminatory view points (and reverse discrimination - i.e. [because I’m female and your male] It is not a fair match up [even though I am taller and I can squash you into a can] so give me an advantage) in sports in which there is no advantage due to body/muscle mass.

my $0.05
 
I am not going to state a personal opinion on this issue but let's get some statistics into this thread. Who can post results of a tournament (such as the ones you speak of where females were given a handicap) which shows a female taking one of the top 3 positions?
 
4.4 Free or bonus pins must not be awarded to female bowlers simply because of gender.

If this is stated in the TBA rankings rules, then why is Brunswick Youth Cup an Ranked event?

Just curious, i never read the rankings rules lol :p

matt
 
I know, very interesting question Matt....

I'd like to know that too...
 
If I dont like the conditions of entry then I dont enter
if its a scratch torny then that means scratch not h/cap;)
 
Brunswick youth cup was ranked because ... as you will see females were ranked in a different devision eg. louie got the 100 points for females because she was the highest finishing female
 
In all honesty i dont believe in giving extra pins to women, however i also dont believe there is a fair playing field when there is only 1 divison to compete in. It is a catch 22 as to how each tournament committee sets their rules and requirements. If they want more bowlers, and if they want to create a level playing field then they need to create both a female and male divison.
 
I honestly believe that the more games in the tournament, the more the women should get a start. Any female can beat any male over 1 game. However, over 10 games, the odds go slightly to male. Over 20, and I'd be betting on the male to clean up.
Many could argue that strength is not necessary in bowling. That's absolute rubbish. Use no strength and try to throw a hook ball, without a wristguard. Go on... Can ya do it? Without keeping the wrist in a firm position, at least at the release, it's basically impossible. Your wrist will bend back with the weight of the ball as it starts to fall and takes control in the downswing. So, once you start to use muscle, the advantage to males begins to take place. Don't forget the strength required at the foul line, to stay balanced and getting yourself in a strong position to enable maximum leverage with as little arm strength as nessacary. Males, due to their naturally stronger bodies, also have better endurance, both for strength and muscle repetition. Put the same bowlers, one male and one female on the exact same training program in any sport and 80%-90% of the time, the male will be performing slighty better. And we all know in bowling, that one light mix can add an extra 21-40 pins on your game, depending on if you make the spare or not.
However, many could argue that it's an open event. An open scratch event for that matter. Which is true... kind of. It does become a handicap event of some description once the 5-8 pins a game is awarded. But when it has been scientifically proven that males compete at a higher level then women in almost every sport (in fact, to the best of my knowledge there is only one world record in any sport that is held by a woman. Deep sea breath holding or something like that. It's the only one.). Then giving women a 5-8 pin start, not even a spare a game, really isn't that much. Especially when in some sports the difference in performance is up to 10%. Maybe we shouldn't be complaining about a 20 pin headstart.
Some people have raised that their are some truly awesome female bowlers in this country and that they shouldn't get a start. That's completely true. There are some absolutly incredibly talented female bowlers in Australia. However, I challenge you to put any where near as much effort, practice and training into your game as Cara, Max, Carol, Sue and AMP have. These women got the level that they did because they put the effort in. They deserve every accolade they get for the amount of time and energy that they devoted to their game, and others for that matter. But the fact remains, that if males put the same amount of training in, they would probably come out on top, especially over the 15 games Matchplay that used to be so common in Australian Tournaments.
Basically, I don't mind giving females an extra 5-8 pins a game. But, honestly, I would love to see them with a complete Super Six event series of their own. But there is only one way that this can happen. With the full on support from the female bowling community. The SA Cup has both a Female and Male division. If this is successful, then why can't some more major's try the female and male division's? That would truly end this argument once and for all.
Later Da Cowman!
 
Well said Da Cowman! Glad not all the men on this forum whinge and complain like a bunch of girls! LOL I think the fact that my previous post was ignored with nobody coming forward with results of a tournie where females were given a handicap and actually took one of the top 3 positions speaks for itself. Sure, I guess it is possible for some of our female bowlers, but obviously doesn't happen often.
 
Well said cowman i would like to say the that i don't care if they are off scratch or have 5-8 pins head start as people are saying it's less then a spare a game.
just my 2 cents.
Chris
 
i think should consider those women average on the 6 or 12 months past tournaments.if she averaging 200+ then she shouldn't get handicap. if you keep giving handicap 5 to 10 to each women...it's not only unfair for the men that have lower average...its also unfair for the other women that have lower average but get the same handicap.

if thinking to get more women join the tournament, why not give them a handicap based on their average...then many of them will join....then will also have problem with some men that will also want handicap...

if giving all handicap based on their average....then this would not be an open tournament...it's more like a fun tournament.

well...if this is open tournament, then i would say no handicap for whoever as bowling is not based on power...but accuracy and mental emotion. i think men and women are equal on this.
 
As i hav said in similar conversations with other people is on average yes males are better bowler, not being sexist, its a fact so with this in mind if u give females handicap how will they ever learn to be as good as the males when they dont hav to be.
 
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