What do people think about Females getting handicaps in events?

[GaryH]

What do people think about Females getting handicaps in Scratch Tournaments?

So come on people, what is your honest opinion on this.

I know I'm opening a can of worms and I'll no doubt receive the wrath of a number of people. I'm not trying to start a war, I simply need to know, what the people want.

In recent days, whilst in the process of organising a tournament, I've come across the statement. "You'd get more females to bowl if you gave them 5 to 10 pin handicap" Is this a normal thing? Do you think it's fair or not?
Again, I'm only trying to gauge opinion so no knives, my back is already full.

Gary

 

[tonx]

Good post mate,

This is an OPEN FORUM, where views SHOULD be able to be discussed without the knife/back scenario.

Im going to say no, for the easy fact that I would get my ass handed to me normally with the likes of Cara, Carol, Sue, Maxine, Anne-Marie etc etc..... Even without the start.

Cheers!

Tonx

 

[luke]

yer i dont think women should get a start, all of those people tonx listed would hand it to me anyday.

luke green

 

[rynzeski]

Women can beat guys and they do not need handicaps to do it. I know I have lots of women beat me in the past without handicap including my wife and she has not let me forget about it.

 

[Ash]

personally, as I am involved in the tournament setup with Gary, have heard the same questions, and here's my opinion...

Women should be insulted by getting a start based purely on being female. By doing that tournament organisers are saying that women bowlers are not as good as male bowlers. Which I believe is totally untrue.

For example, How many Australian men have won the AMF World Cup?

How many Australian Men have bowled on the US pro tour with success?

The calibre of female bowlers in this coutry is staggering, as Tonx said, most Male bowlers are likely to have their A** handed to them by any of the female bowlers we have.

 

[DaleS]

Honestly I dont care.

If the tournament organisers want to put forward a format where the ladies get a start, and you dont like it then dont bowl. Its that simple.

 

[Biggens]

There is a pretty good arguement that yes you would receive more entries from women if they got a 5 - 10 pin handicap, but on the flip side, if we start doing that in tournaments, before long we will be giving bowlers with a 170 league average a 5 - 10 pin handicap, and then we may as well give away the whole scratch scenerio. People know that these type of tournaments are Scratch Tournaments, and Tenpin Bowling is definately one sport that doesn't require sheer strength to achieve results (not suggesting that there aren't some strong women out there) and therefore each bowler can compete fairly on their own merits.

Cheers
Peter Biggs

 

[01kay]

There’s a reason why scratch competitions are called scratch competitions. If you give anyone a handicap the competition becomes a handicap event. Even if its one person or one group of people.

It gives people an advantage, whether it’s a fair or unfair advantage is beside the point. The whole purpose of scratch is to have a group of athletes’ compete with each other in a "pure" form, in other words; without any aid or assistance.

 

[Louie]

I understand on why people disagree with this, as said before the likes of Cara, Anne - Marie, Carol and Maxine etc will hold there own against anyone. However the handicap is there to draw in female bowlers that aren't quite at the standard they're at.
It has been prooven that over a long period of time majority of the time men will out score the women. You only have to look at the averages in most tournaments. So with this in mind giving a small head start isn't such a bad thing. Anyway 5 - 10 pins is less than one spare a game, so in the long run its really not that big a disadvantage to the male bowlers. Plus when entering a tournament like this you should think yourself good enough to beat whoever or whatever is against you anyway.
Honestly I don't mind one way or the other handicap or not if I want to bowl I'll bowl if I don't I wont its that simple like most bowlers. Just thought I'd give a females view on things.

 

[GrandLeo]

However the handicap is there to draw in female bowlers that aren't quite at the standard they're at.

So males who are "aren't quite at the standard they're at" should get 5-10 pins too?? I know I'm only 185 ave (but I should be 200) so I'll have 15 handicap in my next scratch tournament.

So with this in mind giving a small head start isn't such a bad thing. Anyway 5 - 10 pins is less than one spare a game, so in the long run its really not that big a disadvantage to the male bowlers.

In tournament bowling there really isn't much that separates bowlers sometimes it's only a fraction of a pin on average pinfall, ten whole pins doesn't make that much of a difference?? tell that to someone who drops from say 1st to 10th because there was only 0.7 pins on average between the leaders.

Plus when entering a tournament like this you should think yourself good enough to beat whoever or whatever is against you anyway.

Exactly so why a need for 5-10 pins??
just my $0.05.

 

[lgt]

Let's not worry about the extra pins, push to have a female division....think there wouldn't be more numbers for the Adult Brunswick? These bigger and well established tournaments should have the female division.

 

[Susanne]

I agree with "lgt" 100%.
It seems the organisers of these tournaments forget that female bowlers like to be competitive rather than being there to prop up the mens prize fund.
There are very few Caras', Carols', Sues' etc not to forget Kates' bowling in Australia and tournaments need to take into consideration those ladies that cannot possibly be competitive against the men.
Those tournaments that have a separate division for females always get a reasonable roll up. I personally would enjoy bowling the tournament at Penrith but being a female and a senior I cannot justify the cost just to get experience.

 

[Geggy]

I think that the days of requiring a powerful shot to score are drawing to a close, if not already gone and as a result, the gap should be closing. I can only aspire to be half the player that some of our top women already are, & I'm pretty sure that I can throw the ball as strongly as at least some of them! (albeit nowhere near as consistently).

With the enormous hitting power of modern equipment, it is often detrimental to our scoring potential to be hooking the ball coat to coast - ask any cranker how many 9 pins & the like that they expect to leave on any given night!
I say this because the only "scoring potential" factor that I can see, which separates the women from the men in our sport, is the physical strength of the perceived "average" woman. The problem is that women dont get as many events to bowl in and get the valueable tournament experience to advance their game.
I think that a far better option is the reduced entry fee offered to lower average players as seen in some of the North Qld events.

I know that that's a long winded way to say "NO", but that's my thoughts anyway.

GK

 

[lgt]

There are reasons the number of females bowlers are lower, including the old age process where parenting and family expectations hold back the spending of time and money on sport. The same can be said for all participants, but more markedly for females. The ASC recognises this throughout the list of other sports, tenpin needs to take another look.
There are only a few females competing at higher levels because they are up against the guys, bringing in a separate division will bring about the equal playing field and help increase attendance. And everyone plays scratch.
Leanne.

 

[jockey]

It all comes down to the honest assessment of the bowlers ability. If the male bowler is a scratch bowler (200+ avg) then it shouldn't matter to them. However I do question the allocation of handicap to female bowlers who are genuine scratch level bowlers (i.e. if given 5 they are genuine 195+ avge bowlers). This does suggest they have an advantage where there should be none. Female bowlers who are not scratch bowlers should be encouraged to compete by getting a handicap if possible but it can be classed as unfair by the male bowlers who are not quite ready to class themselves as scratch bowlers.
There will always be complaints about handicap and how it should be applied to bowlers. However we must not lose sight of the fact that scratch bowlers represent only 1 or 2% of the bowling population. You might ask yourself knowing I am a scratch bowler why I care then. The simple fact is if you take away handicaps then there will be no bowling.
Terry

 

[PoSsUm]

I don't think ladies or might I add anyone should get a handicap when bowling in scratch/open other wise it wouldn't be called SCRATCH/OPEN would it..... They have got special tournaments for that called HANDICAP events. I am a girl and I would hate it if I was given a handicap in a scratch event cause it beats the purpose of going into a OPEN event.

Catchas round Chris

 

[xpense]

I am not worried either way.

I have asked the same question in Victoria, and in a survey found got approx a 50% for & against the idea, and the majority of my survey's were completed by Men.

If you really believe that a handicap of say 8 pins per game is a problem, it is only 64 pins over 8 games of qualifying, 5 pins per game = 40 pins.

I am sure that if you had a look at the NSW tour over the previous couple of years that the ladies received a handicap of 8 pins, it did not make that much of a change, but it did encourage females to bowl, and lets face it, the tournament scene needs all bowlers it can get now, to ensure the prizefunds are able to be paid out.

Just look at the results from the majority of open events, that only have 1 division in them. You do not see to many ladies at the top of the field, alot of the time not even in the cut, but they support the event. Even look at the events run at the same time (SPC), and compare the averages, and see how many women would have made the cut. even if you like add the extra pins to see.

I am going to run a few events in 2006 that have the ladies getting 5 pins per game, and l hope all bowlers support the event, but the events need to be specific that you have the handicap in.

Lance Dyer

 

[xpense]

Just as an example.

If you look at this years SPC event.

Top 28 men made stage 2.

If we look at only 1 division, and take the scores for the top 28.

On the actual results, 5 females would have made the top 28.
with a cut of -5

Once you add in 5 pins per game (80 over 16 games)

You now have 7 females in the top 28
with a cut of 3 over.

Make it 8 pins per game (128 over 16 games)

You now have 8 females in the top 28
with a cut of 29 over.

 

[Addicted]

Personally I'm not fussed either way about the handicap idea.

That said, I would suggest that the average man has an advantage from his superior strength. Overcoming dry lane conditions is certainly one area that strength can assist. Wrist strength is another potential advantage that average men have over average women bowlers. Thus in those conditions the women competing against the men don't have the same options or variety of shot to choose from as the men. They may have other ways of mastering that condition but using strength is not usually one of them.

Yes I'm one of those female bowlers who bowls in some scratch events in full knowledge that there's not a snow balls chance in hell that I'm going to cash - but then that's not why I bowl anyway.

I would however, love to see a seperate womens division in a few more tournaments - at least there'd be more incentive. At last years QLD Ladies Classic an extra squad was required due to demand and at the K&K Classic enjoyed a large turnout with about 1/3 of the bowlers in the ladies division. The ladies can turn out in numbers when they're not competing against the men.

That's my 2.5 cents worth ...:x-mas:
Joyce Mazzoni

 

[Squiptar]

This is a sport where strength isn't always necessary to be at the top end of the sport. The guys and girls can easily bowl at the same level with practice. There's no reason to give extra handicap based on gender.

Want a handicap? Then don't enter a scratch tournament! Simple. Happy bowling campers! lol