E
edfleminglanes
I think what you people are proposing is Fantastic and as Mary has mentioned the females must be involved in several events. I would make a suggestion that some efforts are made to entice Steve Jones in WA, Peter Coburn in Vic, Max Bastain in SA, Mary Flower Qld, & Sue Casell NSW,they have the experience and business sense to set this up along with State reps. Once the initial has been done and advertised the bowlers will then have to vote on the concept with actual participation in these events on a National, Major or local basis.
We need people inolved who have the time to committ and drive this monster to be a successful pathway for all bowlers thru-out Australia.
TBA only needs to be involved for accreditation purpose. As for RANKINGS the organization would set up their own rankings based on Gender or age groups,with points based on National, Major or Local events.
It may be that some groups may not jump onward to start with however, every Major event in Australia started from Humble beginnings and if the drivers behind this project cover all areas then I can not see why the bowlers would not support such a scheme.
Ed Fleming Lanes will support this project by having the Melbourne Tenpin Cup as one of the Majors. 2008 Could see the MTC at their new location in Kilsyth and kick start the series. Maybe the Calendar should go June to June each year and should give the new directions committee a chance to set everything in place.
We need people inolved who have the time to committ and drive this monster to be a successful pathway for all bowlers thru-out Australia.
TBA only needs to be involved for accreditation purpose. As for RANKINGS the organization would set up their own rankings based on Gender or age groups,with points based on National, Major or Local events.
It may be that some groups may not jump onward to start with however, every Major event in Australia started from Humble beginnings and if the drivers behind this project cover all areas then I can not see why the bowlers would not support such a scheme.
Ed Fleming Lanes will support this project by having the Melbourne Tenpin Cup as one of the Majors. 2008 Could see the MTC at their new location in Kilsyth and kick start the series. Maybe the Calendar should go June to June each year and should give the new directions committee a chance to set everything in place.
Very good point.
One question that i would like to ask is, in the case of the Adelaide Cup, and possibly others, is there any reason why you couldn't run this in conjunction with the SA cup. The reason i ask is that the numbers for both events were very low, to me it makes sense to run them in the same venue, at the same time, but still keep them seperate. That way the atmosphere would be a lot better.
There may be reason why this couldn't be done, i am not sure. But having 2 tournaments with pretty bad turn outs (60 odd and 26 from memory) compared to having 1 event (that is in essance 2 events) with around 100 entries in the one center at the same time.
Now VIC150 is another thing all together that you would keep seperate, absolutly. It is just going to take some carefull planning of the calender to make sure that everyone is happy. This isn't always the case, not everyone will be happy, but i am sure that if there is a major problem with 2 events that are clashing or something, that an agreement like, 1 year event a has the spot and the 2nd year it takes a different spot so event b can have the better time. An alternating calender as a worst case senario
Just a thought.
Andrew
Peter Coburn
Sponsor
I have read this thread with great interest.
It was four years ago when I was first elected, by the bowlers of this country, to the TBA Board. At that time TBA had an agenda to create two advisory committees. One of these was the Youth Advisory Committee and the other a Tournament Bowlers Advisory Committee.
As some of you may know the Youth Advisory Committee was formed in early 2003 and in the early days some very positive responses received from those that served on this committee. Valuable contributions aided in the preferred tournament formats for ranked youth events and the upgraded rules of the Youth Teams Challenge. The following year a number of youth tournaments recorded in excess of 100 entries and considering the base criteria is that the bowler must be under 23 this was an exceptional result.
In that same year, a number of elite bowlers where approached, including discussions with the entire Australian adult team that year, as to the formation of a Tournament Bowlers Advisory Committee. On the tournament scene things must have been going quite well back then as the consensus from this group was that a committee of this type was not required. I guess that 4 years down the track things have changed markedly. Perhaps TBA should be approached to ascertain whether the formation of such a committee is back on the agenda.
I noticed my name mentioned here, thanks Joe. I’m not sure if I would be the right person to drive this out of Victoria but if this group thinks otherwise then I’d be more than happy to contribute, be consulted or even head a formation meeting. I can be contacted direct at [email protected]
Personally, I feel that Joe is 100% correct in the support required by TBA. With the new TBA Board in place after the recent AGM there is now only one elected dedicated bowler in place who has a vote, the rest being proprietors or financial advisor. I’m not sure that you will get the direction you are looking for on this particular subject from this group and perhaps an independent Tournament Players Association is the way to go.
It was four years ago when I was first elected, by the bowlers of this country, to the TBA Board. At that time TBA had an agenda to create two advisory committees. One of these was the Youth Advisory Committee and the other a Tournament Bowlers Advisory Committee.
As some of you may know the Youth Advisory Committee was formed in early 2003 and in the early days some very positive responses received from those that served on this committee. Valuable contributions aided in the preferred tournament formats for ranked youth events and the upgraded rules of the Youth Teams Challenge. The following year a number of youth tournaments recorded in excess of 100 entries and considering the base criteria is that the bowler must be under 23 this was an exceptional result.
In that same year, a number of elite bowlers where approached, including discussions with the entire Australian adult team that year, as to the formation of a Tournament Bowlers Advisory Committee. On the tournament scene things must have been going quite well back then as the consensus from this group was that a committee of this type was not required. I guess that 4 years down the track things have changed markedly. Perhaps TBA should be approached to ascertain whether the formation of such a committee is back on the agenda.
I noticed my name mentioned here, thanks Joe. I’m not sure if I would be the right person to drive this out of Victoria but if this group thinks otherwise then I’d be more than happy to contribute, be consulted or even head a formation meeting. I can be contacted direct at [email protected]
Personally, I feel that Joe is 100% correct in the support required by TBA. With the new TBA Board in place after the recent AGM there is now only one elected dedicated bowler in place who has a vote, the rest being proprietors or financial advisor. I’m not sure that you will get the direction you are looking for on this particular subject from this group and perhaps an independent Tournament Players Association is the way to go.
Lefty Can't Carry
Member
Hey Lindsay
Start a player’s organization and start running tournaments ourselves...Set up a Tournament committee and negotiate our own sponsors and game rates…
If we want Tournaments to run and stay around…WE NEED to get off our buts and take control…No point waiting for others to do things for us…Just a suggestion…
I know my calendar would be more up to date if I was sent more information…
This is a good idea.
The Sports Series in Qld.,NSW, and now starting up in Vic. is a good beginning for the more accomplished bowlers, and the "up and comers", but the problem is still back to attracting numbers.
As I read the posts, the focus has shifted from attracting bowlers to the tournaments, to organization of tournaments.
We need to get back to basics, and make tournaments attractive to the better league bowlers.
The more numbers bowling, the better the prize fund, the more people will become interested.
When I first started bowling back in the '80's, the MTBOV was the big thing, and bowlers queued up to register.
But when some of the better bowlers began to finish in the top 10-15 consistently, the organizers saw fit to ban us, rather than introduce some sort of handicapping system.
I know scratch bowlers hate having to bowl handicap events, as it has to favour the lower average bowler, but this is the only way to attract them, and give them a chance to win something.
The majority of bowlers who enter tournaments, will never have any hope of winning, but will be rapt to make "the cut", or even get some cash back.
Remember, it is these lower eschelon bowlers who make up the majority of the field, and help provide the prize money for the "top end".
The ATBA in the past made the mistake of "loading" the prize money for the "top end" of the field, and failed to cater for the remainder of the bowlers.
Anyway, I am starting to wander.
My view is that each STATE, City,Town,Centres etc. need to organize first, before worrying too much about National tournaments.
If enough bowlers become interested in each of these environments, then it should(I am assuming) flow onto National.
Juniors should be encouraged, as they are the future.
Maybe a separate section with a separate entry fee & prize fund for them or full entry fee for a shot at the "First" prize, their choice.
Same for handicap maybe, but it would depend on numbers.
The entry for the AO was a lowly 76, yet entries for the MTC have exceeded this number already, and more to come.
We need, as a body, to support our local tournament organizers.
Ask other bowlers if they are competing in the "next" tournament, and if not "why".("quote")
Support any and all sponsors, because sponsorships are hard to get.
If you deal with the sponsor, mention to them, where you got their name. This will help with future sponsorship.
If I am unable to provide actual support to an organizer, then I will at least provide moral support on line.
Brien S
Brien, you made some good points in what you wrote, but i think that you answered your own question/point here.
Scratch bowlers hate bowling in handicap events. So they don't turn up and we are in the exact same position as we are now.
I think that one of the avenues that needs to be looked down, is based on Lindz idea with the juniors, woman and youth. I also believe that some tournaments use a similar idea, but slightly different.
With the middle rung bowlers that don't want to bowl in the big events because of the feeling that they are not good enough, why not have on the entry form for the majors or what ever, a big box that you tick if you wish to bowl in the handicap division. So in essance, 2 seperate tournaments, under the same roof.
With this, everyone bowls together in qualifying, however, when it comes to match play, rather than the bowlers that missed out of the top 20 say then getting the scores re-adjusted with handicap, the top 20 from the normal entry form goto match play, then the top 20 that had the box ticked for the handicap division, go onto their match play. Same for the woman, juniors and youth. Now center sizes might come into play, and cause a problem with this as well. Scratch could goto the top 18 for match play (12 Lanes at 3 to a pair) Centers are around the 24-28 Lanes now, so it might be alright. There are some bigger centers which wouldn't be a problem.
Sure, there maybe some flaws with the idea, things like, do you give the spots in the qualifying sqauds to first in best dressed, or do you give preference to the scratch bowlers, as their entry might be more or somehting, i don't know.
The one thing that i mentioned in another post, that would be the same for this one is "ATMOSPHERE". I think from memory one MTC (1996??) had like 160 entries. How good would it be to have those sort of numbers there again. Also, it then has the benifit of if there are more catergories, there will therefore be a lot more people there on the Monday (or Sunday) to watch, compete, cheer, drink, eat and drink more to pump more money into the centres (provided the food is good!!!!!)
Just another thought.
Andrew
CSP
Member
That is why we need to start the National Tournament Players Association (NTPA) to help TBA guide this sport to success. With AMF cutting costs and experienced staff leaving, next that will be more likely to be cut will be tournaments. This is why the TBA & NTPA need to be in control, not the bowling centres.
Hi all
I have been trying for some years to get a sports series up and running in WA, there seems to be a bit of interest in it now. Hopefully this time it will get off the ground. I would anticipate that a sport series, Local, Zone State/Territory, and National would be Bowler driven and supported by all, it might then be possible to pick up some sponsors or funding for a National series.
I would be willing to support in any way that I can a State, or National series.
As people are saying we need to do something not just talk about it
allenj
I have been trying for some years to get a sports series up and running in WA, there seems to be a bit of interest in it now. Hopefully this time it will get off the ground. I would anticipate that a sport series, Local, Zone State/Territory, and National would be Bowler driven and supported by all, it might then be possible to pick up some sponsors or funding for a National series.
I would be willing to support in any way that I can a State, or National series.
As people are saying we need to do something not just talk about it
allenj
E
edfleminglanes
Willey we need to stop Blaming AMF,they are running a business just like all the independents, however if the bowlers formed a circuit (just like the old ATBA in Victoria) then I am sure that AMF would come to the party with sponsorship and or discounts etc and the bowlers in the long term would be the winners. Like everything in life don't really on the National body, really on bowlers supporting and getting behind a National Tournament Circuit. As mentioned before we need some very dedicated drivers to guide this to a very successful venture. There are a lot of good people around who are not involved with State or National bodies and will be able to dedicate the time and effort to drive this forward. We just need to get them all together at one venue with one idea in mind........lets plan to be successful
Joe, I know what you are saying, I remember the NSW Open was started by by the TBA ( with members of the Calibre of Graham Bacon, Fred Allsop etc), they gave control to AMF, who at the time were eagar to organise promote and run such Tournaments. Newcastle Cup was also an independent Tourney that AMF brought under thier umbrella of Grand Prix series, most of the Grand Prix events were run by and organised by the Centre they usually evolved from and those Centres had ownership, so they cared enough to ramp up sponsorship and entries but that all changed with central control, so the Managers were out of the loop and became disinterestedand so did the staff,
willey
willey
E
edfleminglanes
Yes you are correct, but it is NOW up to the bowlers to start organsing the new circuit and have controll over the situation. Once the circuit is up and running both AMF and independent will have the chance to host an event and it will result in healthy competition between all. But we need to stop cackling on like old hens and start laying plans for 2008 and beyond. It will not fall into anyone's lap, the bowlers need to start organising meeting NOW. Once up and running the circuit will be totally in control of it's own destiny........that is something to look forward to. Especially from a State like Victoria that was the front runner in the form of the ATBA and now we have nothing for the bowlers, and I mean nothing. How can our younger bowlers get involved if there is not a regular circuit operating to allow them to bowl against or with their HERO"S........We need a circuit and we need it quickly.
Totally with you Jo lets make it happen instead of talking about it, i have been trying to get a sport series up and running in Western Australia for some years now, there seems to be a bit of interest, hopefully the interest will turn into some action and we will get a series in WA. That series could be part of a National programme.
allenj
allenj
heres a novel idea .... since we are likely to have a fairly good representation of bowlers in town for MTC is it possible to arrange some sort of open forum so that ideas and plans can be put on paper in order to plan what the 2008 calander might need to start looking like to accomodate everyones needs.
Your right Joe, but we can't have the Tail Wagging the Dog, it all starts with the Centre's. The only reason we have Tournaments is to create linage, it is not a charity. As I have said in previous Posts, there was not much to Bowl in in the Sports biggest Boom time in the late 70's early 80's, other than Brisbane Cup Sydney Cup and SPC, other than that it was Novelty Events such as Triplex, National NO-Tap, Strike-O-Matic and Daybreakers.
Having said that the most important thing is PRIZE MONEY, if you can put it up they will come, the Grand Prix series had plenty to start with but 10-15 years later the Prize money was still the same but the costs were tripled.
willey
Having said that the most important thing is PRIZE MONEY, if you can put it up they will come, the Grand Prix series had plenty to start with but 10-15 years later the Prize money was still the same but the costs were tripled.
willey
CSP
Member
The National Tournament Players Association is being created and planned as we speak. The NTPA will be working with TBA and hopefully AMF and independants to bring tenpin bowling to the success and high profile it should have.
Everything should be in place to kick off the 2008 season.
Be patient.
Cheers
Christian Purdue
Everything should be in place to kick off the 2008 season.
Be patient.
Cheers
Christian Purdue
Hi,
Here a real rough in for a calender. Based on this years calender
Jan - 2nd weekend reserved for state series.
Feb - 10, 11 & 12 SA Cup. This was Just pushed back 2 weeks.
Mar - 2nd weekend reserved for state series.
Apr - 7, 8 & 9 - Qld Cup- using easter long weekend.
May - 2nd weekend reserved for state series.
Jun - 9, 10 & 11 - MTC using queens b'day Stays the same
Jul - 2nd weekend reserved for state series.
Aug - 4, 5 & 6 -NSW Open - pushed back 2 weeks to use long weekend in NSW
Sep - 2nd weekend reserved for state series.
Oct - 29/30Sep, 1oct - WA, using queens b'day long weekend.
Nov - 2nd weekend reserved for state series.
Dec - 1, 2, & 3 ACT Brunswick, Stays the same.
Like i said, this is a rough in. There probably will be objctions!!! But what i tried to do was to create a minimum of 7 weeks between Majors, whilst trying to keep them as close or on the current date. Some of the public holidays are the states public holidays, as they tend to make up the bulk of the numbers, it should be done to them.
But like i said, its just a start.
Andrew
Here a real rough in for a calender. Based on this years calender
Jan - 2nd weekend reserved for state series.
Feb - 10, 11 & 12 SA Cup. This was Just pushed back 2 weeks.
Mar - 2nd weekend reserved for state series.
Apr - 7, 8 & 9 - Qld Cup- using easter long weekend.
May - 2nd weekend reserved for state series.
Jun - 9, 10 & 11 - MTC using queens b'day Stays the same
Jul - 2nd weekend reserved for state series.
Aug - 4, 5 & 6 -NSW Open - pushed back 2 weeks to use long weekend in NSW
Sep - 2nd weekend reserved for state series.
Oct - 29/30Sep, 1oct - WA, using queens b'day long weekend.
Nov - 2nd weekend reserved for state series.
Dec - 1, 2, & 3 ACT Brunswick, Stays the same.
Like i said, this is a rough in. There probably will be objctions!!! But what i tried to do was to create a minimum of 7 weeks between Majors, whilst trying to keep them as close or on the current date. Some of the public holidays are the states public holidays, as they tend to make up the bulk of the numbers, it should be done to them.
But like i said, its just a start.
Andrew
This is a good start Andrew but where do you propose to fit in the 3 stand alone Ladies tournaments as mentioned by Mary in a previous post. Easter next year falls on Mar 21(good Friday) then reverts to apr 10, apr 2 ad apr 22 respectively for 2009.2010.2011. If the aim was to have the Adelaide Cup combined with SA cup then pushing it back from Aus Day Weekend might restrict numbers. Just my two cents worth from a female perspective.
There is no reason why the ladies events can't stay where they are.
Easter for the VIC150
Late June for the QLD Ladies Classic (Could this be moved to a different date??)
Combine the SA cup's together, and have them, late January on the long weekend.
If no one seemed to care that the Aust Open and VIC150 were on at the same time in the past, what would it matter if there was a Major on that weekend again at the same time as vic150?
Like i also realise that the K&K is a favourite of everyone, do/can you change the date of that to suit a holiday weekend? Do you put it to early May for their labour day? This is where careful preperation is going to come into it, to allow everyone enough time between events to save money, make sure they can get time off to travel. Even 1 day is hard for some people when there are so many tournaments so close to each other.
Would there also then be a problem with not having a major event in April, moving it to May. So you have 12 weeks from the 1st event, but only 4 weeks to the next?? Then move the may state series to the the april slot. once again just a thought.
Once again, if we can get feedback from the bowlers that do the traveling and the ones that want to, but for whatever reason can't, that would be great. The more ideas (sometimes) the better.
Andrew
Easter for the VIC150
Late June for the QLD Ladies Classic (Could this be moved to a different date??)
Combine the SA cup's together, and have them, late January on the long weekend.
If no one seemed to care that the Aust Open and VIC150 were on at the same time in the past, what would it matter if there was a Major on that weekend again at the same time as vic150?
Like i also realise that the K&K is a favourite of everyone, do/can you change the date of that to suit a holiday weekend? Do you put it to early May for their labour day? This is where careful preperation is going to come into it, to allow everyone enough time between events to save money, make sure they can get time off to travel. Even 1 day is hard for some people when there are so many tournaments so close to each other.
Would there also then be a problem with not having a major event in April, moving it to May. So you have 12 weeks from the 1st event, but only 4 weeks to the next?? Then move the may state series to the the april slot. once again just a thought.
Once again, if we can get feedback from the bowlers that do the traveling and the ones that want to, but for whatever reason can't, that would be great. The more ideas (sometimes) the better.
Andrew
Brenton_Davy
900Global bowler
2 problems exist here as I see it.
1. SA Cup has been traditionally on the Australia Day long weekend (when it IS a long weekend) and many people plan holidays around that. Lack of entries in the last 2 years has, I believe been mainly because of late entry form release.
2. Easter is traditionally Australian Open/Vic 150 weekend. This is one of the few stand alone womens events that gets decent no's of entries.
Traditional events shouldn't be cast aside or rescheduled at a whim in my opinion. Just better promoted. Not meaning to be negative, just a couple of opinions. I hope this all gets off the ground.
On edit: Sorry, didn't see the later post, answers at least some of these queries.
