Country Cup Format - Does It Need To Change?
- Thread starter Carmers
- Start date
Purple_Tweety
Miss Paige
Did you have any Andrew? Or just opening up the table for others?
Assassin_300
CountryCupx3 Emersonx2 SeniorShieldx1
Come on Craig You Have no mates 
granat
Total Bowlerer
The format is good although I like the idea of Peterson (Pederson?) Points as per Dunn Shield. I think its time to review where the event is held.
An event with this statue and prestige on the state bowling calender should be held in a centre where the men and the women can bowl side by side. If that means bowling in a neutral centre in the Metropolitan area then so be it.
Graeme
grumpie
Active Member
I agree with you Graeme. My suggestion has always been to maybe share Country Cup between Geelong and Morwell only. They in turn do not get the other country tournys, which are then shared between the other centres. Obviously need some fine tuning to make sure all the country centres don't have less income then they would do under the present system.
Liz
Liz
bowlrig
Just A Bowler
I to do agree that some changes need to be made, but holding it in just two centres is not the go. Also peterson points would not be an advantage.
One option we have been discussing down this way for all centres but those with 24 lanes or more is the following ~
1. Bowl 1 full round against all centres.
2. Then bowl a second round of 5 games, with a pre-selected draw done by the committee or top 6 and bottom 6 from the previous year (for a closer finish maybe) A bit like the AFL draw. The bye would be in the second half and the team against the bye recieving points equal to the average points for the first round.
3. Then a positional round to finish it off.
4. Bowl blocks of 4 & 3 on Saturday & Sunday (finished by midnight) then a 4 game block on the Monday finishing around 4pm gone by 5pm, early home.
The other option is to maybe include a minimum game rule (this I don't like but others do).
If I get enough positive feed back on this I will put it to the committee.
Rob
This would not be hard to work out and would benefit alot of teams.
One option we have been discussing down this way for all centres but those with 24 lanes or more is the following ~
1. Bowl 1 full round against all centres.
2. Then bowl a second round of 5 games, with a pre-selected draw done by the committee or top 6 and bottom 6 from the previous year (for a closer finish maybe) A bit like the AFL draw. The bye would be in the second half and the team against the bye recieving points equal to the average points for the first round.
3. Then a positional round to finish it off.
4. Bowl blocks of 4 & 3 on Saturday & Sunday (finished by midnight) then a 4 game block on the Monday finishing around 4pm gone by 5pm, early home.
The other option is to maybe include a minimum game rule (this I don't like but others do).
If I get enough positive feed back on this I will put it to the committee.
Rob
This would not be hard to work out and would benefit alot of teams.
ThEOnE
Member
I like the current two round format and the long hours, i like taking extra days off to get over it, but i also understand not everyone has this luxury or is old and cant hack the late nights anymore
I like the idea of split divisions and this could warrant some in depth discusions.
Any ideas?
Cheers Jason Motta
I like the idea of split divisions and this could warrant some in depth discusions.
Any ideas?
Cheers Jason Motta
Woza
Active Member
I talked to a few people about different things over the weekend and there was a general census that everybody had the same views - Best tournament easily in Victoria, if not Australia but it is a long three days.
It is not only hard on the bowlers but also bus drivers (drop men off at 7:30 am - pick ladies up at 2:30 am) try and get some sleep in between. Most people have opted to stay the extra night (Monday) as it would be sucidial to drive home after three days - but some people did it.
The main thing that come out of it was everyone loves the format, if we start playing with that I believe we will kill the tournament, everyone wants to bowl together and everyone enjoys the dinner/dance that we get to have when Morwell/Geelong host it.
Looking at short term options Ballarat next year then Albury.
Lets leave next year for a minute and go forward to Albury.
Imagine at Albury we use both Albury Bowl and Twin cities at Wodonga - Men bowl first round at Albury and scond round at Wondoga - Women do reverse - Bowl 8 games day 1 - 3 on the second day - then 5 that afternoon at other bowl and 6 on the last day with presentation at Albury. Finish earlier each day and a dinner/dance could be organised for Saturday night
If we want to continue using Country centres then we could either run it at Morwell and Geelong every alternate year (Will make 2 associations happy) everyone gets to bowl together and we have a dinner dance but the other associations never get to hold it (Maybe Morwell and Geelong dont hold junior CCup and Senior Shield as a trade off).
Alternatively - turn it into a four day tournament - Mos people arive on Friday and go home on Tuesday - We bowl 6 games ( 2 block of 3) Saturday, Sunday and Monday and 4 games on Tuesday ( 2 block of 2) Although it is an extra day it reduces the days length by 4 games and may still enable a dinner/dance to be organised. You also get away at a reasonable time on the Tuesday. This might be the option for Ballarat and for other Associations in years to come
The third option is to tender it out to a metropolation centre - One with enough lanes to enable everyone to bowl together - Whilst this enables everyone to bowl together I believe that it is a country tournament and therefore should remain in the country centres
Interesting Topic - Hopefully some good ideas come out of it as a result. The biggest concern is that as it is a long three days - people involved with the tournament (not just the bowlers, but spectators, supporters and bus drivers) are putting their lives at risk in travelling home from the tournament.
It is not only hard on the bowlers but also bus drivers (drop men off at 7:30 am - pick ladies up at 2:30 am) try and get some sleep in between. Most people have opted to stay the extra night (Monday) as it would be sucidial to drive home after three days - but some people did it.
The main thing that come out of it was everyone loves the format, if we start playing with that I believe we will kill the tournament, everyone wants to bowl together and everyone enjoys the dinner/dance that we get to have when Morwell/Geelong host it.
Looking at short term options Ballarat next year then Albury.
Lets leave next year for a minute and go forward to Albury.
Imagine at Albury we use both Albury Bowl and Twin cities at Wodonga - Men bowl first round at Albury and scond round at Wondoga - Women do reverse - Bowl 8 games day 1 - 3 on the second day - then 5 that afternoon at other bowl and 6 on the last day with presentation at Albury. Finish earlier each day and a dinner/dance could be organised for Saturday night
If we want to continue using Country centres then we could either run it at Morwell and Geelong every alternate year (Will make 2 associations happy) everyone gets to bowl together and we have a dinner dance but the other associations never get to hold it (Maybe Morwell and Geelong dont hold junior CCup and Senior Shield as a trade off).
Alternatively - turn it into a four day tournament - Mos people arive on Friday and go home on Tuesday - We bowl 6 games ( 2 block of 3) Saturday, Sunday and Monday and 4 games on Tuesday ( 2 block of 2) Although it is an extra day it reduces the days length by 4 games and may still enable a dinner/dance to be organised. You also get away at a reasonable time on the Tuesday. This might be the option for Ballarat and for other Associations in years to come
The third option is to tender it out to a metropolation centre - One with enough lanes to enable everyone to bowl together - Whilst this enables everyone to bowl together I believe that it is a country tournament and therefore should remain in the country centres
Interesting Topic - Hopefully some good ideas come out of it as a result. The biggest concern is that as it is a long three days - people involved with the tournament (not just the bowlers, but spectators, supporters and bus drivers) are putting their lives at risk in travelling home from the tournament.
the last thing you want to do is make it in anyway like emerson shield, the beauty of both tournaments is the difference in format.
peterson points will narrow the tournament down to a couple of teams winning every year (not a good idea)
i would like to see the men and the women bowl all the daily games in one appearance per day, instead of 2 and i believe it should be a 7am start and bowl a minimum of 8 games on saturday and sunday
i do agree with a last game positional round, nothing adds more to excitement than 1st and 2nd playing each other
peterson points will narrow the tournament down to a couple of teams winning every year (not a good idea)
i would like to see the men and the women bowl all the daily games in one appearance per day, instead of 2 and i believe it should be a 7am start and bowl a minimum of 8 games on saturday and sunday
i do agree with a last game positional round, nothing adds more to excitement than 1st and 2nd playing each other
granat
Total Bowlerer
Let's not forget that the women were not supposed to be still bowling at 2 am.
The centre was simply not capable of sticking to the schedule that had been set down (through no fault of the tournament team).
There needs to be some type of assessment as to whether a centre is capable of holding such a tournament. I don't believe that a centre/ association should be hosting Country Cup just because it's their "turn"
Graeme
PS Concede the point about peterson points.......stupid idea really.
Also... must bowl the bye. Turned the lane draw into a farce.
The centre was simply not capable of sticking to the schedule that had been set down (through no fault of the tournament team).
There needs to be some type of assessment as to whether a centre is capable of holding such a tournament. I don't believe that a centre/ association should be hosting Country Cup just because it's their "turn"
Graeme
PS Concede the point about peterson points.......stupid idea really.
Also... must bowl the bye. Turned the lane draw into a farce.
ace_hi
New Member
Cripey Woza you must have nothing much to do to sit and think about all these different options.
Nobody seems to want to go down the road of adding an extra team and then going to two divisions with a promotion and relegation system.
keep the positive thoughts going maybe there is an answer in there somewhere.
Brian Walsh
Nobody seems to want to go down the road of adding an extra team and then going to two divisions with a promotion and relegation system.
keep the positive thoughts going maybe there is an answer in there somewhere.
Brian Walsh
MW
Awesomeee
extra team, NO, merge a team again, maybe!
out of the ideas heard so far, the melbourne idea is the only one i feel should happen if any! yes it is a country tournament, but with all country teams there, i don't think it would lose the feel of it, plus i'm sure we would have a lot more spectators because from what i've heard, the melbourne enjoy watching our tournament! Why not show them what we've got!
SA country cup do it every year because it makes it neutrel ground for everyone and all teams get to bowl at once!
otherwise don't change anything, it may be a long weekend, but its only 1 out of 52 weekends in a year!!
out of the ideas heard so far, the melbourne idea is the only one i feel should happen if any! yes it is a country tournament, but with all country teams there, i don't think it would lose the feel of it, plus i'm sure we would have a lot more spectators because from what i've heard, the melbourne enjoy watching our tournament! Why not show them what we've got!
SA country cup do it every year because it makes it neutrel ground for everyone and all teams get to bowl at once!
otherwise don't change anything, it may be a long weekend, but its only 1 out of 52 weekends in a year!!
Carmers
Member
I like the sound of this Rob, but to me, in regards to the minimum games, not having that restriction, apart from a couple of team changes, is what seperates CC from Emerson. Its what makes Emerson the competition it is. Just my two cents. Lol.
Carmers
Member
To me its one of the damned if you do and damned if you dont scenarios. Unless changes are made, your going to start losing people, but if you do make changes, your still going to lose people.
Carmers
Member
There are a few ideas going through my head in regards to the tournament.
One. Like the AFL, you need to come to the realisation that perhaps not everyone can play two rounds. We take the tournament back to 18 rounds with teams having the chance to have one full round, then a draw determines the remaining 7 games. Six games per day for each of the days. One block of 6 or two blocks of three for both the men or the women. Means that a finish should and I say should be no later than 9 to 10 pmish.
Two. Much the same as suggestions before, you tender the tournament out to Melbourne neutral centres big enough to hold both the mens and ladies divisions at the same time and everyone gets to bow at once. The game rate can have a surcharge added to it and whoever the host association is gets the money for nothing. The host association also get the chance to host a dinner or something on the saturday or sunday night and get all of the proceeds from that. However the downfall of this is that it is a country tournament and I understand that it needs to stay in the country centres.
Three. The VCTBA allow the teams waiting to join CC in and you have one full round and a positional over two days which gives you the monday to travel home.
Four. The event is split between Morwell and Geelong each year with the host association to have the control in regards to the oil pattern, dinner, schedule etc. Basically, the bowl is handed over to the for the weekend.
Thats a few ideas travelling through my head and I now have them down.
Regardless as to what happens, another team needs to be let in to fill the bye by next year. 11 teams bowling with a bye when there is no need year after year is absoloutly stupid. There are three or four teams waiting now to join this competition (correct me if I am wrong). Regardless, there are teams hungry to join and they are still continually being made to wait.
My last item is even though there are ideas floating around, this year has been the latest year yet and an exception. I understand that the three days are demanding both mentally and physically, but that is what makes the tournament so damn great. You enter your respective CC trials year after year knowing that you have to go to hell and back for a chance to win the cup and that is hat makes it so damn special when you get to stand and hold it at the end. If no changes come of any of this, then I will understand also.
Thanks for reading the post, these are just my thoughts. Lol.
One. Like the AFL, you need to come to the realisation that perhaps not everyone can play two rounds. We take the tournament back to 18 rounds with teams having the chance to have one full round, then a draw determines the remaining 7 games. Six games per day for each of the days. One block of 6 or two blocks of three for both the men or the women. Means that a finish should and I say should be no later than 9 to 10 pmish.
Two. Much the same as suggestions before, you tender the tournament out to Melbourne neutral centres big enough to hold both the mens and ladies divisions at the same time and everyone gets to bow at once. The game rate can have a surcharge added to it and whoever the host association is gets the money for nothing. The host association also get the chance to host a dinner or something on the saturday or sunday night and get all of the proceeds from that. However the downfall of this is that it is a country tournament and I understand that it needs to stay in the country centres.
Three. The VCTBA allow the teams waiting to join CC in and you have one full round and a positional over two days which gives you the monday to travel home.
Four. The event is split between Morwell and Geelong each year with the host association to have the control in regards to the oil pattern, dinner, schedule etc. Basically, the bowl is handed over to the for the weekend.
Thats a few ideas travelling through my head and I now have them down.
Regardless as to what happens, another team needs to be let in to fill the bye by next year. 11 teams bowling with a bye when there is no need year after year is absoloutly stupid. There are three or four teams waiting now to join this competition (correct me if I am wrong). Regardless, there are teams hungry to join and they are still continually being made to wait.
My last item is even though there are ideas floating around, this year has been the latest year yet and an exception. I understand that the three days are demanding both mentally and physically, but that is what makes the tournament so damn great. You enter your respective CC trials year after year knowing that you have to go to hell and back for a chance to win the cup and that is hat makes it so damn special when you get to stand and hold it at the end. If no changes come of any of this, then I will understand also.
Thanks for reading the post, these are just my thoughts. Lol.
I think tender it out to a Melbourne centre which can hold all teams at once.
Keep the same format as this is not the problem as everybody loves it. Country centres wouldn't make money on running this tourny.
My opinion is let a Melb centre hold the tourny the host assoc' still organise everything including the dinner dance which you would make a formal event and compulsory for all bowlers to attend, possibly run some kind of fundrasing for the night to help pay for extra costs.
Country Cup at the minute is slowly DYING and us as the bowler shouldn't let this happen hopefully something can get changed.
Keep the same format as this is not the problem as everybody loves it. Country centres wouldn't make money on running this tourny.
My opinion is let a Melb centre hold the tourny the host assoc' still organise everything including the dinner dance which you would make a formal event and compulsory for all bowlers to attend, possibly run some kind of fundrasing for the night to help pay for extra costs.
Country Cup at the minute is slowly DYING and us as the bowler shouldn't let this happen hopefully something can get changed.
