Buying Direct from the USA

I have ordered previously from buddies, and they can do shipping to Aus for around $70 a ball. Taking a ball like a Nano plus shipping you're looking at $225 to your door. That's how much some proshops here charge for a plastic ball. I have found a very good ball driller who just happens to only want $20 a ball. I lay my own balls out with my own accumulated knowledge of layouts (bowlingchat.net for anyone interested), and equipment to do it correctly (pro-sect is a god send) so why would I go to a proshop here? Id feel like I'm getting swindled out of $150 for the ability to use a drill press.
I don't mean to belittle Aus proshop operators, but business is different now. That other proshop at the bowling alley twenty mins away isn't your only competition anymore, your competition in on a global scale.
 
And sure some people just want to go to a proshop and say,"I need something for heavy oil, which ball and layout for me?" and get someone else to do the work for them. That's fine then if the operator wants to charge them for their time and expertise. But a little time spent learning things for yourself can save you a lot of money in this sport.
 
how about this for a spanner in the works, all pro shops/private drillers get together and go we will not drill balls purchased from a non Australian supplier and TBA put a policy in place that if want to bowl in a sanction tournament all equipment must be drill by TBA sanctioned driller.

we would then create a equipment maintenance association who would come up with standard ave costing for all services, this way we would maintain a high standard in our drilling industry, keeping us update with the way the US and top euro nations drill balls,

ask yourself this how far are we behind, when the US judge a pocket single pin leave to a pocket strike, by the sound in which balls the lane.
 
Hi David,

That would be great to see something like that and I support such a thought.

I just can't ever see it happening with out larger volumes of bowlers as the cost to do so would then be put back to the Bowler.

The very people that are buying from O.S online.
 
David,

Your suggestion re Pro Shops not drilling o/s purchased bowling balls would only drive that market "underground", a bit like Prohibition I guess. However in relation to das1604's pro shop that is willing to drill for $20, that is a different story. Whoever that person is, he is drastically undervaluing the service. I can only assume this operator is not a full time pro shop operator because there is no way he could make a living charging thjose prices.

As I have posted elsewhere, and it bears repeating, the smart operator can save his loyal customers considerable money by looking after them with such services resurfacing, cleaning, repairs and maintenance at discounted prices. The customer who buys elsewhere would pay full tote odds for these services, whereas the loyal customer would pay a substantial discount. Over a 12 month period, the loyal customer can save more than the extra they paid for a ball bought fromt hat shop.

Your o/s internet retailer CANNOT provide these services, nor can they provide the type of advice that a competent hands on shop can.

Example:

12 x ball clean on ball spinner @ $5.00 per clean = $60 for loyal customer
compared to:
12 x ball clean on ball spinner @ $10.00 per clean = $120 for outside buyer
= saving $60 per year

2 x full resurface @ $20.00 = $40 for loyal customer
compared to:
2 x full resurface @ $35.00 = $70 for outside buyer
= saving $30 per year

1 x full Plug and Redrill @ $30 for loyal customer
compared to:
1 x full Plug and Redrill @ $50 for outside buyer
= saving $20 per year

10 x finger inserts @ $4.00 = $40.00 for loyal customer
compared to
10 x finger inserts @ $5.00 = $50.00 for outside buyer
= saving $10 per year

5 x thumb slugs @ $10 = $50 for loyal customer
compared to:
5 x thumb slugs @ $15 = $75 for loyal customer
= saving $25.00 per year

All of a sudden, the smart, competent operator is saving their loyal customers considerable money. Add to that, coaching, accessories and just the opportunioty to use the pro shop as a meeting place to brainstorm, bull***t or just hang out, there are many benefits the pro shop can offer its loyal customers the internet shops cannot.

Truth is, there is room for both, but the internet shops are not necessarily as value for money as they may first appear.
 
how about this for a spanner in the works, all pro shops/private drillers get together and go we will not drill balls purchased from a non Australian supplier and TBA put a policy in place that if want to bowl in a sanction tournament all equipment must be drill by TBA sanctioned driller.

we would then create a equipment maintenance association who would come up with standard ave costing for all services, this way we would maintain a high standard in our drilling industry, keeping us update with the way the US and top euro nations drill balls,

ask yourself this how far are we behind, when the US judge a pocket single pin leave to a pocket strike, by the sound in which balls the lane.


Actually TBA already has a ball drilling course. However a drilling accreditation certificate will not necessarily mean that the holder is a good ball driller, only that he can pass an exam.
I cant speak for the other States but the top drillers in Queensland are probably not accredited. The best drillers get their business by word of mouth regardless of certificates or accreditation.
 
Hi Brenton,

Image if you could offer that service and have an effective online pro-shop as well.

It is possible, but you would need to be buying your own stock direct to compete. Nothing stopping that is there? Or is that the problem, the local suppliers are holding back the independant pro-shops. Then you are competing with the non-TBA certified Pro-Shop's under cutting the value of their time.

Image somebody calls you and saying their local pro-shop won't deal with me because they think your ball is to old or that you bought it elsewhere. But you the online guy says, come in and I will sort you out. You got the online sale that somebody else did not want, and you got the services as well.

Best of both worlds.
 
Brenton,

that is could be true, and i don't think anyone is disputing pro shop services, we are talking about buying equipment overseas.

i am wondering, from the people who have been purchasing OS balls,

on where they get there balls from, from a quick look around, and few of the website are either very out of date, or when add up all cost, ball would be around the same price.

know if your pro shop charges you $380 + drilling then to me that money hungry business.

for me the way i look at it,

Australia; top end ball (nano,world beater,c-system) should be around $280, inserts $10 - $15(or included in ball sale(good business practice)), drilling $40 - $70(time based)

over seas; top end ball (nano,world beater,c-system) should be around $230 - $280(freight variance), inserts $15 - $20(brenton quote), drilling $70 - $100(time based no ball purchase discount)

?????????
 
Actually TBA already has a ball drilling course. However a drilling accreditation certificate will not necessarily mean that the holder is a good ball driller, only that he can pass an exam.
I cant speak for the other States but the top drillers in Queensland are probably not accredited. The best drillers get their business by word of mouth regardless of certificates or accreditation.

yes i know that as i am wanting to do it myself, should we be looking at what Chris Batson is doing regards to coaching, bring more regulations, and accountability on how they coach.
 
David,

Your suggestion re Pro Shops not drilling o/s purchased bowling balls would only drive that market "underground", a bit like Prohibition I guess. However in relation to das1604's pro shop that is willing to drill for $20, that is a different story. Whoever that person is, he is drastically undervaluing the service. I can only assume this operator is not a full time pro shop operator because there is no way he could make a living charging thjose prices.

As I have posted elsewhere, and it bears repeating, the smart operator can save his loyal customers considerable money by looking after them with such services resurfacing, cleaning, repairs and maintenance at discounted prices. The customer who buys elsewhere would pay full tote odds for these services, whereas the loyal customer would pay a substantial discount. Over a 12 month period, the loyal customer can save more than the extra they paid for a ball bought fromt hat shop.

Your o/s internet retailer CANNOT provide these services, nor can they provide the type of advice that a competent hands on shop can.

Example:

12 x ball clean on ball spinner @ $5.00 per clean = $60 for loyal customer
compared to:
12 x ball clean on ball spinner @ $10.00 per clean = $120 for outside buyer
= saving $60 per year

2 x full resurface @ $20.00 = $40 for loyal customer
compared to:
2 x full resurface @ $35.00 = $70 for outside buyer
= saving $30 per year

1 x full Plug and Redrill @ $30 for loyal customer
compared to:
1 x full Plug and Redrill @ $50 for outside buyer
= saving $20 per year

10 x finger inserts @ $4.00 = $40.00 for loyal customer
compared to
10 x finger inserts @ $5.00 = $50.00 for outside buyer
= saving $10 per year

5 x thumb slugs @ $10 = $50 for loyal customer
compared to:
5 x thumb slugs @ $15 = $75 for loyal customer
= saving $25.00 per year

All of a sudden, the smart, competent operator is saving their loyal customers considerable money. Add to that, coaching, accessories and just the opportunioty to use the pro shop as a meeting place to brainstorm, bull***t or just hang out, there are many benefits the pro shop can offer its loyal customers the internet shops cannot.

Truth is, there is room for both, but the internet shops are not necessarily as value for money as they may first appear.

Another excellent response from Brenton. For my money, this guy is business savvy. He's up to date and switched on to the constant market trends. He knows that he has to have a smart business plan and a simple but effective marketing strategy to help combat the uneven playing field that he's playing on.

In direct contrast to other pro shop operators who like relics of the past have based their business plan on a formula from a by-gone era. They steadfastly refuse to adapt or change their antiquated marketing strategy and scoff at all suggestions to do otherwise.
They are blinkered to the point where as they cannot clearly define a ball sale and a ball drilling sale.
IMO their compulsive obsession to link these two sales together will be their demise.
 
I have a pro shop, not a department store.

It will work in both cases, maybe a little harder with a small inventory but, it will still work

That simply doesn't work in a pro shop on a bowling ball, as it involves skilled labour, or the hours of my life I put into my pro shop in both research and continuous learning. They're not on sale. Ever.

Skilled labour for selling a bowling ball? Are you speaking of drilling or choosing the ball. Let us not forget that we concentrating on the ball sale. Even if you are spending time choosing the correct ball for the customer. How many customers don't already have a preconceived idea as to exactly what they want? What ever the figure, it's very small.

And pro shops don't have a large staff pool to amortise a labour discount across.

So, then don't do it. Try a different strategy.


Yes, yes, quite droll... And probably in breach of Trade Practices Legislation. I can sell you a bowling ball for $1 less than I pay for it too. But the drilling would have to be through me and it would cost a bit more than usual. That's the point! I won't run my business as a slippery slide of snakes and ladders pricing. It's revolting behaviour deliberately intended to mislead consumers. That's why I quote people complete prices. No "ball+freight+drilling+inserts" nonsense. One drive away price. No BS.

What you refer to BS, the rest of us in business refer to as marketing strategies. If your up front with your pricing strategy who is being deceived? What is so revolting?
You must cringe in disgust when you see your local bowling centre advertising the old hotdog, coke and game deal, what about the centres that advertise the havaball leagues and not mention the true cost of the ball? I'm sure a person with your high morals would not frequent these establishments.

Which is why so many retailers want to get out. They have to resort to tricky deals to make a buck. Old stock is not a big ticket item. New, must-have, wonder-products are.

OK, let me have look through todays specials. Here, we have both Telstra and Optus offering the latest mobile phone with all the bells and whistles for $1 dollar no other up front fees. Well below the normal retail cost of $1000 dollars or more. Both companies major shareholders of the telecommunications market. Could be a lesson here for those of us who are not oblivious to the obvious.

Old stock at clearance prices is also used to up-sell to the big ticket item. My whole business is built on word of mouth. I built it on honest dealings at reasonable prices.

Good for you. Did you know that word of mouth is both the best and the worst form of advertising for any business.

And paying it over and again in freight.

Some agree, some disagree. I can't offer an opinion as I have never been through the exercise.

I get these individuals tyre kicking by way of asking me for free advice and recommendations which I have recently started to politely decline. Another lovely by-product of our age. People try to weasel years of accumulated knowledge out of you. A venerable pro shop mate of mine had a guy come in with an imported ball recently asking if he could get it laid out to go long and strong. By dumb luck, the ball was OK to do that, so he started drawing lines. Then this guy proudly tells him once he's laid it out, he was taking it to a cheaper pro shop where the guy there would throw the holes in. He had no intention of paying my friend for his knowledge. Then he got upset when my friend wiped the lines off the ball and promptly told him that his guy had better lay it out. His reply..? "He doesn't know how!" I don't know how he expected the cheap drilled finished ball to fit, but he's probably never had a ball that did.

It's a terrible world, to think such atrocities are still occurring!!

This is the wonderful market that the cheapskate economy has produced. An increasing "screw or be screwed" mentality.

Adapt or perish.

You wonder why we get defensive? Ask the jerk that tried that one on.

Many of us won't need to ask. Remember, the old word of mouth that you built your business on.......it works both, the guy has probably already told 20 other people who have each told their friends!!

No, that would make me some kind of fundamentalist. Let's stick to the subject, hey?

Certainly. Only if you can cease using the ball drilling aspect to defend cost on the ball sale?

And that goes back to my original advice to pro shop operators on this thread. There are customers you should just sack, to use a great term I learned while studying architecture. Let them go elsewhere and make somebody else's life miserable from their miserly or worse, bullying behaviour.

Finally, a slither of worthwhile information.
 
My point exactly RobbieB....

You say when the $ goes back to 90c... retail prices here will go up correct? That is because the buy price will go up, therefore even individuals will shy away from buying 1 ball from overseas. They will have to rely on Proshops and local distributers here in Australia. MY POINT IS THAT IN THE CURRENT CLIMATE PEOPLE ARE BUYING FROM OVERSEAS DIRECT AND SKIPPING THE "MIDDLEMAN", WHICH HAS THE POTENTIAL TO CLOSE PROSHOPS IN BOWLING CENTRES DUE TO LACK OF BUSINESS. Then when the $ goes down and it is no longer attractive to buy from overseas the individual will look for a proshop but they will be out of business as there was an extended period where they simply could not compete with online overseas purchases.

Which if im not mistaken is what ADP was saying in the first place.

I love forums and their ability to get peoples opinions from all levels but I truly am blown away no one seems to understand what im talking about.

I think I'm finally getting a drift of what your trying to say.

I still think that there will always be ball drillers and/or ball retailers in Australia regardless of how many people buy direct from overseas. Perhaps it won't be a brick and mortar retail outlet, perhaps a home based mobile business maybe the future for our ball drillers and retailers. I honestly don't know.

I do know from a lifetime of experiences and observations that pro shops are heading down the same road as the business who used to manufacture rubbish bins from metal. The old metal rubbish is almost obsolete, if not completely obsolete. Replaced by plastic wheelie bins. The companies who persisted in manufacturing metal bins have either gone bankrupt or they have adapted to other products in a changing market. Dependent on your age. there are hundreds, maybe thousands of examples of once successful and profitable business and services who now do not exsist due to the changing market.
 
You're absolutely right Frank. Everything I've said is worthless. And no doubt in your mind, everything I do is too according to the subtext of the vile, snide comments above. I'm so glad you're such a good listener with the greater good in mind. I could have spent years of my life thinking I was helping people by giving them precision work finished to the highest standards available anywhere in the world. But you're right. It's worthless claptrap. I should be trying to sell everything at or below cost because that's how you make money. Just like OneTel or Compass Airways.

Nice work. You keep being right. You're doing a great job. I can tell that you've really answered a calling to improve the world on this one. When the good operators have all but left, folks can thank you and your slithering ilk for helping kill 'em off. You must be so proud of yourself. A real example of the heights that humans can aspire to. DaVinci, Proust, Bentham, Shakespeare, now... Zippell.

I'd rather be happy than right. So quite frankly (no pun intended), if the market keeps going this way, I'll stop selling bowling balls. Oh yes, and all that other stuff that really is skilled you disregard like, Oh God, I've said it all before, and in this thread, re-read it elsewhere and waste your time instead. I'm not wasting any more of mine.

Is Frank Zippell your real name, by the way..? No offense intended, seems more like an archetypal American nomenclature Internet handle. I couldn't imagine that such a fine upstanding (and right, did I mention right..?) fellow as yourself would be hiding behind a pseudonym though, so again, I must be wrong. You're so right, Frank. Thank you for helping me see the error of my ways.

Meanwhile, I've got good customers to look after.
 
I think I'm finally getting a drift of what your trying to say.

I still think that there will always be ball drillers and/or ball retailers in Australia regardless of how many people buy direct from overseas. Perhaps it won't be a brick and mortar retail outlet, perhaps a home based mobile business maybe the future for our ball drillers and retailers. I honestly don't know.

I do know from a lifetime of experiences and observations that pro shops are heading down the same road as the business who used to manufacture rubbish bins from metal. The old metal rubbish is almost obsolete, if not completely obsolete. Replaced by plastic wheelie bins. The companies who persisted in manufacturing metal bins have either gone bankrupt or they have adapted to other products in a changing market. Dependent on your age. there are hundreds, maybe thousands of examples of once successful and profitable business and services who now do not exsist due to the changing market.

It seems to me that PSO's are trying to take out their frustrations on everyone but themselves. Perhaps we should look closer to home?

When the buying public believes they're not getting their money's worth, they start looking around for better deals. The market has changed. Anyone can buy a ball from anywhere in the world, and with a little knowledge (easily obtained via the internet), some mechanical ability, and a drill press or a KMT Personal Ball Jig, they can drill their own equipment. Drilling a bowling ball is not that difficult, and if your customers BELIEVE that's all you offer them, your business is doomed!

The following is a true story that I posted on another site some time ago. I learned more in one afternoon from this guy than I had learned in my previous 25 years of bowling. This is what a PSO SHOULD be selling!

"I've got a cute story for all of the bowlers out there who may not understand what makes a bowling ball work, but want to take their game to the next level.
Back in the late '80's, when cores and reactive covers came out, I was throwing a plastic ball and averaging about 185, but could never get over the "200" hurdle. I had already been bowling for about 25 years and thought that I new everything, but I could not make the ball hook like some of the other guys that were throwing newer equipment. So I made some phone calls and found the most reputable PSO in the area and paid him a visit. I told him that I wanted one of those new "hooking" balls. He just smiled at me and asked "what ball are you throwing now?" So I pulled out my plastic ball and set it on the counter. He grabbed a ball from his display (a Purple Rhino I think), but before putting it on the counter, he said "this is the latest from Brunswick, but I'll bet you that your plastic ball will hook just as much as this one." Well, I, of course, new better, and replied "$5?? He agreed. He put the ball on the counter next to mine and just stared at them both. After a few seconds he said "see--neither ball is hooking." I quickly countered with "well you have to throw them!!" He then threw each ball onto the carpeted floor and said "they're still not hooking!!" To which I replied "No, no, I mean on the bowling lanes--at the pins!!" We put on our shoes and we went out on the lanes. He watched me throw a few balls, then, he threw my ball, and it went straight as an arrow, just as I thought it would. He then took a Purple Rhino from his bag and threw it--end over end. It, of course, went just as straight as my plastic. I was totally puzzled. He smiled at me and went back on the approach with his Purple Rhino and hooked it from gutter to gutter. Then, to make matters worse, he picked up my plastic ball and hooked it from gutter to gutter.
This was the beginning of my relationship with this guy. A few years later he talked me into becoming a partner in the business, and a few years after that, he went on to work for a major ball manufacturer and I took over the shop. We still communicate regularly and he still likes to "humble" me every now and then.
The point to this story is this: There is no such thing as an "automatic" hooking ball. The ball will only do what you tell it to do--if you roll it end over end it will go straight, no matter what kind of ball it is. Learn to ROLL the ball--not throw it!! There is no such thing as a "natural" release. There is nothing natural about holding a 16# ball in the palm of your hand, swinging it while walking, and releasing it in a forward motion while spinning it in a different direction, all the while, making it hit a specific area 60 feet away!! The only way to make it feel and look natural is to PRACTICE!"
 
It seems to me that PSO's are trying to take out their frustrations on everyone but themselves. Perhaps we should look closer to home?

When the buying public believes they're not getting their money's worth, they start looking around for better deals...

The point to this story is this: There is no such thing as an "automatic" hooking ball...

Hi Steve,

In the interests of space, I've truncated your post and hopefully not taken it out of context. Please correct me if you think I have.

The coaching/instruction angle a good point. A little tangential, but worth including. As John Jowdy says, "Practice doesn't make perfect, only permanent. Good practice makes perfect." By which he means seeking out a knowledgeable (maybe even qualified) instructor and applying what they say in the way that works for you. Like I say to my customers; "Can you meet me half way and touch the holes on the realease?" Followed by an on the carpet coaching session. A good pro shop with coaching services can do wonders with your physical & mental game as well as the sphere in your hand. This is yet anther reason why the knowledgeable pro shop is worth supporting. On-line ball shops can't do this. And every customer leaves my shop with more than just holes in a ball. Passing on knowledge is the key to keeping people in the sport, which is good business.

Ball drilling at a very basic level, isn't that difficult. But like most things, it gets advanced and that's when it gets trickier. Ask Mo Pinel. It's much like I feel confident to rotate my tyres, but I'm not about to change my tie rod bushings. I know enough to know what I don't know. That's when I call in a specialist who knows his stuff. Getting a bowling ball to really fit, to fit like a pro would have it, takes time, expertise, some customer education and sometimes even an iteration or two. When a somebody buys a good ball, then gets a shoddy drill job done on it, they are usually none the wiser (as evidenced by many comments on this forum), but I find myself saddened on their behalf. They've been ripped off and they don't even know it. Bad fit = bad value.

Some people want the job done right. Some don't care. (It's their hand they're gambling with and I still see guys bleeding who insist that their gear fits just great, thanks.) But please don't devalue the efforts of the quality pro shop operator by putting them in the same bucket as a 10 minute per ball drill hack. It's disrespectful to these people (including myself) who really know their trade and have spent years honing their knowledge and skills. A close analogy would be that it's like saying a University Degree is only a piece of paper.

Almost all of my early customers were people who were dissatisfied with their previous fit. That speaks volumes in itself. I've cleared up people's pain, callouses, ~½" underspans, ~½" overspans, undersized grips, grossly large thumb holes (that no doubt got them out of the last pro shop quicker) and even avoided hand surgery for one lady. There's a lot of badly fitting balls and overworked arms & digits out there. It makes me wonder how many people the sport has lost over the years as a result. I've seen some dreadful "fits" and appalling work finish out there. Stuff you'd never put your name to. And I've seen the light come on in people's eyes when they first try their new grip all fitted. It's a really good feeling to have made somebody so happy with something a great fit, especially when they've been suffering up until now.

In a previous post, a comparison was made to the electrical goods market. To compare a pro shop to an electrical store is tangential at best. It's like saying that a good pro shop technician has the same skill level of the kid who takes your credit card and hands you the box at Harvey Norman. There's a lot more to it than that once you get past "by the numbers" drilling.

This whole misguided debate seems to be a prime example of "You don't know what you don't know until you now know that you didn't know it." People who have never experienced a really good fit, the kind that takes an experienced operator the best part of an hour from start to finish, simply may have no idea of what I am talking about.

And today's balls BTW, by way of covers that have enough friction to damage lanes over time and cores that flare to flip people's inadequately rotated release track off the thumb hole do provide a substantial amount of automatic hook. They require only the most modest of user input to prime the pump. A pancake ball with the same release won't get off the thumb for them and will move substantially less. Nobody throws the ball dead straight. It's almost impossible to do without sliding it the entire length of the lane.

Like all good people in our society, I do my best to do the right thing by people. And doing the right thing takes time, dedication, development, equipment, education, knowledge, manual skills, an understanding of physical principles, excellent communication skills, an attitude of care and responsibility and a commitment to excellence. That all adds up. Just like a Mercedes isn't a Daewoo, a quality job isn't just three holes in a ball.

When people ignore the aspect of quality work, in order to save a few bucks, then imply that anyone who doesn't do what they do is getting ripped off, they cheapen themselves and in turn, our entire sport. They clearly demonstrate that they feel no reciprocity on their behalf is required to society as a whole. Psychologists have a term for them. They call them "cheaters". It's a type of pathology common in psychopathic behaviour. And our society is showing more and more of it. It's disgusting when they give this primate behaviour the euphemism "human nature", it's just misleading. Humans are capable of much more complex conceptual thinking than "cheap price" and many do and a lot of my customer base is made up of such enlightened individuals. It's just that some aren't capable, some are too lazy or far worse, don't care about the consequences to others. Dog does not eat Dog. Cannibalism is a primate behaviour.

We can go about making the world a better place. Or we can go about trying to (ch)eat each other. I'll choose to be, and try to be the former man. Sometimes it's harder, but it's worth it to be true to myself.

My quality of work is a reflection of my values.
My values are an integral part of me.
My integrity is not on special and never below cost.

Others can choose their own path.
 
To be honest i have now taken the stand ,that the very valued customers i have,that come through the doors of my shops, understand they are getting a service, as well as an acceptable deal on their equipment.
Most of these bowlers have been passed onto me by word of mouth from other customers and they can see value in good workmanship,knowledge and experience.
So it is this customer base i am focused on.

The tyre kickers and price jockeys are part of day to day life in running my shop.

However it is up to me to decide if i bother to entertain them and their stop at all cost, cheap deal, mentality.

Remember guys.

"YOU DON'T BOWL ONLINE"
So is it always best to shop online????

I have also lost count of the amount of bowlers who have said to me at Lidcombe...wow a ball driller you don't see many of you guys in bowls anymore.....?????

Just my 2 cents.
 
There are some great posts in this thread and it's been interesting to follow. To sum it all up in relation to the opening question, everyone seems to agree it's cheaper to buy your ball (not talking about finished drilled price, just the ball + Shipping) direct from the US. The question then becomes should you? Is that sale going to mean your local PSO can't stay in business?

There's no doubt in my mind that purchasing a ball directly will be the correct solution for some bowlers. The ones who take the time to research what's right for them and who are comfortable buying things online from the US. Then there are those who really have no idea on either front and would like to deal with someone face-to-face who will still shop locally. The local pro-shop may lose 50% of their ball sales to online markets, but there will always be local customers.

So how can a pro-shop survive if half their sales are gone? They need to make sure they charge correctly for their services. Purchased the ball from me, drilling's included. Purchased it elsewhere, drilling's $100. Factor in the lost profit margin so that even with half your ball sales gone you are still around the same income. You change your pricing structure to be based on external ball sales but then offer a discount to in store sales customers, sort of a VIP reward card. "With each ball you get 15% off resurfacing for the life of the ball" or along those lines. Make the customer want to come back to you time after time.

As it stands, this idea falls in a hole when you realise that far too many bowlers don't understand that there is more to drilling a ball then just 3 holes. To most bowlers, there is nothing really to distinguish between the top drillers and the local centre where the tech pops 3 holes in the ball, so bowlers wonder why go to the $100 place when the $30 guy does the same thing. They need to be educated in what the difference between going to someone like Jason to get a ball fitted properly and going to a random guy with a drill is. Perhaps this could be done through a TBA produced list of "accredited" ball drillers. They could have a tiered list with "Gold" level being those drillers who have proven their knowledge and offer a certain level of service, and "Silver" level being those who have just completed the course. The concept of going to a "certified" person is something people easily understand (you wouldn't get dental work done by a mate in his shed even if he said he'd researched it and it seems simple enough) so if that is the way drilling is marketed then you remove the issue of a "cut price" driller and should find that you actually gain more work.

------------------------------------

With all that said, there is one thing that hasn't really been touched on here, distributors. If bowlers are buying balls from the US direct, pro-shops dont need to carry as much stock. That's less orders being made, meaning distributors are importing less balls per shipment (higher freight costs so increases wholesale price) or ordering less often (taking us back to when a *new release* ball here was already 3 months behind) which will effect more pro-shop sales which will mean less orders..... etc. At the end of it all, they will be the first to feel the bite and close up leaving local Pro-Shops with not much to offer. Except services!
 
This thread really has gone off on a tangent... It seems to have gone from buying balls from the states to the Pro shop operators justifying their pricing structures etc etc... Like a lot of things and it has been said before... you pay for what you get... But there is 2 parts to this in my mind...

1. Buying the ball...
2. Paying the ball driller to correctly layout and drill the ball...

1. Buying the ball... This is the crux of this thread. It is unfortunate for the Pro shop operators that they are seeing reduced sales due to the internet, but bowling isn't the only industry affected.

2. Paying the ball driller... I don't think anyone on here would complain about paying good money for this service (as has been stated before) Jason, I have no doubts that no one on this forum would question your ability as a ball driller. That is why I asked you if you ran drilling courses. This wasn't an attempt to fleece you in any way but to gain knowledge so I can look into providing a service to the bowlers in and around where I live.
 
You're absolutely right Frank. Everything I've said is worthless.

No, that's not right you're being too hard upon yourself, I was able to find a slither of worthwhile information.

And no doubt in your mind, everything I do is too according to the subtext of the vile, snide comments above.

Vile, snide comments? You’re either extremely thin skinned or your definition of these words is incorrect.

I'm so glad you're such a good listener with the greater good in mind. I could have spent years of my life thinking I was helping people by giving them precision work finished to the highest standards available anywhere in the world.

Absolutely astounding! Again, you couple the ball sale and the ball drilling sales together as one. I’m not debating or arguing about your skills as a ball driller. The sooner you can accept that, the happier you will be.

But you're right. It's worthless claptrap.


Where did I say or imply that little gem?

I should be trying to sell everything at or below cost because that's how you make money. Just like OneTel or Compass Airways.

From one extreme to another. All I did was give you a simple example of a big dollar ticket item (according to your criteria) being used a loss leader. You were the one that said it wasn't being done. Surely you can admit that you were wrong without going on the offense.

If that's you read into my comments, so be it, you believe what you wish to believe. Perception is reality.

Nice work. You keep being right. You're doing a great job. I can tell that you've really answered a calling to improve the world on this one.

Lovely sentiments, thank you.

When the good operators have all but left, folks can thank you and your slithering ilk for helping kill 'em off.

You sure are hard to please. I have offered many suggestions in this thread based on my experiences and observations to help improve the pro-shop operators chance of staying in business and all you can see are negatives. I bet that when you look at a rose bush all you can see are thorns!

You must be so proud of yourself. A real example of the heights that humans can aspire to. DaVinci, Proust, Bentham, Shakespeare, now... Zippell.

I’m not really an artistic sort of guy. Personally I would have preferred Edison, Franklin, Einstein and Newton

I'd rather be happy than right.

You come across as an exceptionally joyful person.

So quite frankly (no pun intended), if the market keeps going this way, I'll stop selling bowling balls.

No skin off my nose. In life as in business when one door shuts another opens. All it means is an opportunity for someone else to sell balls at a competitive price.

Oh yes, and all that other stuff that really is skilled you disregard like, Oh God, I've said it all before, and in this thread, re-read it elsewhere and waste your time instead. I'm not wasting any more of mine.

Incredible! here we again, linking the ball sale and the ball drilling sale together as one. You're inability to not be able to clearly define these two sales is truly remarkable.

If you would just look at the situation from a below average league bowler or occasional social bowler veiw, you may get a different perspective.

Is Frank Zippell your real name, by the way..?

That's very perceptive of you. You're correct, it’s not my true name. If it makes any difference to you, my christened name is Francis but, I prefer Frank.

No offense intended, seems more like an archetypal American nomenclature Internet handle. I couldn't imagine that such a fine upstanding (and right, did I mention right..?) fellow as yourself would be hiding behind a pseudonym though, so again, I must be wrong.

No offense taken. Seeing as names are of such interest to you. I would have thought Doust to be of French origin but according to this I would be wrong.

Last name: Doust
This interesting name has two possible origins. The first, and most likely being a nickname from the Olde English pre 7th century "dust" meaning "dust" and given to one with dust coloured complexion or hair. The surname from this source is first recorded in the early half of the 11th century. One Robert le Doust is recorded in the 1316 Fine Court Rolls of Kent. C.1400 the name was frequently given to a wayfarer. The second possibility is that the name is topographic and given perhaps to one residing in a particularly dusty area.

You're so right, Frank. Thank you for helping me see the error of my ways.

You're welcome, always happy to help the struggling less fortunate in life with valuable advice.

Meanwhile, I've got good customers to look after.

You go along and look after your good customers, I’m sure all the GREAT customers are being looked after by someone else.
 
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